Mini 660 - Star Trek: DS9 Mafia (Ruined = Over)

[farside22]

Fair enough, recruiting is indeed a point I missed.

Other than that, I think we should wait for frelaras to post before starting claiming.

Also, farside22, where exactly did you get the impression that I “seem against” massclaiming

in this specific situation?

I consider this wishy washy as far as claims go.

I'm not exactly a fan of mass-claiming, but it does seem apropriate here.

[td]

How exactly is “

general-statement

, but

situation-specific-statement-as-an-exception

” wishy-washy?

Wishy-washy necessarily implies that there are two contradicting statements. However, an “in most cases” expression and an exception to it are in no way contradictory and thus cannot be called wishy-washy.

Also, now that I've asked for evidence, you accuse me of being wishy-washy on claiming, whereas you did describe me as being

against

mass-claiming.

[farside22]

How exactly is “

general-statement

, but

situation-specific-statement-as-an-exception

” wishy-washy?

Wishy-washy necessarily implies that there are two contradicting statements. However, an “in most cases” expression and an exception to it are in no way contradictory and thus cannot be called wishy-washy.

Also, now that I've asked for evidence, you accuse me of being wishy-washy on claiming, whereas you did describe me as being

against

mass-claiming.

Post 545 is suggest that we might not be in lylo so really not up for claim. Saying that I know it is lylo also isn't a tell. I feel that is a big leap to make when anyone who's played her can tell you what I just said. Also saying I'm against mass claim but will do it is wishy washy.
It's basically saying I will do it but I dont like it. How is that not wishy washy?

[farside22]

td: Do you have an issue with claiming first?

[td]

Post 545 is suggest that we might not be in lylo so really not up for claim.

Apart from being in the same post, my comments on mass-claiming and lynch-or-lose are not in any way related.

--

Saying that I know it is lylo also isn't a tell. I feel that is a big leap to make when anyone who's played her can tell you what I just said.

It's not at all about lynch-or-lose, but about you

knowing

when there's not enough information available to us to know. Thus, you either lied about “knowing” and are indeed just guessing or you have more information available than the rest of us.

--

Also saying I'm against mass claim but will do it is wishy washy. It's basically saying I will do it but I dont like it. How is that not wishy washy?

I never stated that I was against mass-claims. I did make a general statement about “not exactly being a fan” of them and then said that

nevertheless,

a mass-claim in this specific situation would be “apropriate.”

--

td: Do you have an issue with claiming first?

No. I do have an issue with you misrepresenting me though.

Also, interesting that you're back at the td-against-mass-claim stage, which ironic, since you seem to be

wishy-washy

there…

[Sotty7]

I wouldn't be against a mass claim. Although I think the scum may have been given safe claims after M4yhem's claim of Jake.

We really wasted a day yesterday quick lynching Light. He was the obvious choice but we could have had a lot more discussion. Now I can't help but feel like we are in a lynch or lose. We need to be really careful.

FOS: Scot

This is lynch or lose I agree on a mass claim.

I'm confused. I agree with a mass claim. What's the FOS for?

I think scot or TD who seem against it should be one of the first to claim. Then I suggest which ever the two that goes first it we choose popcorn style.

Err see above.

FOS: Farside

No. I do have an issue with you misrepresenting me though.

What he said... *Nod*

I have no problems with claiming first if that's what people want. I do agree with Farside that we are most likely in a lylo though. Most 12 player games I have been in have had 3 scum. I'm not about to make the leap on that being the lock for this game, but that is the theory I'm working on.

[frelaras]

FOS: Farside

for that random FOS and framing lylo in the way he did.

I think we need to proceed cautiously -- obviously -- and I point that out since the last two "days" have gone by ultra quickly.

Claiming makes sense at this point. We really need as much info as possible to sort out what to do next. I really want farside to start, or at least I hope he gets picked quickly, since he's looking quite suspicious today. Agreed on method of choosing. Let's do it.

[Sotty7]

I would also like to vote for Farside to go first.

[farside22]

I'm fine with going first. I would like to throw some caution to the wind, but I need to verify something first before I do it.

[farside22]

I asked the mod a question, but I will claim first and I think popcorn is a good way to go in regards to claims. Anyone taking there time should be looked at.

I am Kira Nerys/ Vanilla townie.

I want TD to go next

It's not at all about lynch-or-lose, but about you knowing when there's not enough information available to us to know. Thus, you either lied about “knowing” and are indeed just guessing or you have more information available than the rest of us.

What part of a 12 player game and normal 3 scum did you miss?

farside22 wrote:
Also saying I'm against mass claim but will do it is wishy washy. It's basically saying I will do it but I dont like it. How is that not wishy washy?


I never stated that I was against mass-claims. I did make a general statement about “not exactly being a fan” of them and then said that nevertheless, a mass-claim in this specific situation would be “apropriate.”

I will concede to that point, but I think it's a thin line.

@Scot: Misread your comment. I thought I saw that you were against mass claim.

[td]

What part of a 12 player game and normal 3 scum did you miss?

If it's a 12-player game with “normal 3 scum,” we are in lynch-or-lose

if and only if

Light-kun has successfully recruited another player. If he did not, we are not in lynch-or-lose.

--

I am Constable Odo, Chief of Security. During the night, I revert to my liquid natural state. During the day, however, I can try to link with another player to see if they are a changeling. So far, I can confirm ZONEACE, M4yhem, Timeater and CallMeLiam as solids (that is, non-changelings). Also, see post #72 for a breadcrumb.

I'd like CallMeLiam to go next.

[ChannelDelibird]

NOTICE

I should have written this into the rules at the start of the game, so my apologies, but you should all be aware that you are not permitted to post or link to the picture of your character included in your role PM, as it falls under the category of directly quoting your role PM.

[farside22]

What part of a 12 player game and normal 3 scum did you miss?

If it's a 12-player game with “normal 3 scum,” we are in lynch-or-lose

if and only if

Light-kun has successfully recruited another player. If he did not, we are not in lynch-or-lose.

--

I am Constable Odo, Chief of Security. During the night, I revert to my liquid natural state. During the day, however, I can try to link with another player to see if they are a changeling. So far, I can confirm ZONEACE, M4yhem, Timeater and CallMeLiam as solids (that is, non-changelings). Also, see post #72 for a breadcrumb.

I'd like CallMeLiam to go next.

Sorry I'm unfamiliar with changeling. Was that what a recruiter did or is that a scum thing?

[td]

It's a “scum thing,” the changelings are the Founders of the Dominion.

[farside22]

It's a “scum thing,” the changelings are the Founders of the Dominion.

I'm more confused. You said you checked M4yhem. But didn't he turn out to be scum?

[CallMeLiam]

Changelings are the shapeshifters we spent much of day one arguing about. If truthful, td is confirming their presence. If truthful, day one is going to be fertile ground for scumhunting.

I'm Quark. Each night I pick a player, and the next day I can force their vote to whereever I choose. The flavour behind it is me buying votes.

I'd like to see Sotty next please.

[farside22]

Changelings are the shapeshifters we spent much of day one arguing about. If truthful, td is confirming their presence. If truthful, day one is going to be fertile ground for scumhunting.

I'm Quark. Each night I pick a player, and the next day I can force their vote to whereever I choose. The flavour behind it is me buying votes.

I'd like to see Sotty next please.

I saw the discussion on it, but I'm confused why he didn't see M4 as a changeling. Or is M4 not a changeling?

[Sotty7]

I am Ezri Dax, a vanilla townie. frelaras is next seeing as he's the only one left.

It's a “scum thing,” the changelings are the Founders of the Dominion.

I'm more confused. You said you checked M4yhem. But didn't he turn out to be scum?

M4yhem's character was Weyoun, who is a Vorta, not a changeling.

Liam, who's votes have you brought so far and where did you force them?

[frelaras]

I am Miles O'Brien, and my technological knowledge of the station gives me protection against dominion attacks (aka night kills). However, given that's it's old cardassian junk it's not reliable on subsequent nights.

(Glad I checked in from work on my break, that went quickly)

[farside22]

If it's a 12-player game with “normal 3 scum,” we are in lynch-or-lose if and only if Light-kun has successfully recruited another player. If he did not, we are not in lynch-or-lose.

I don't play often with cults in mini games. The few I know of there is still 3 scum and 1 cult in a 12 player game. I don't know if Light target went through he stated he targeted me then said he targeted Scot I believe (need to double check), but since he tried to lie about me I don't know what to believe about anything he stated.

[td]

I'm more confused. You said you checked M4yhem. But didn't he turn out to be scum?

A changeling is certainly scum (because non of the claimed roles

should

be a changeling), but not every scum is necessarily a changeling (indeed, the Vorta are not, yet they are part of the Dominion).

--

I don't play often with cults in mini games. The few I know of there is still 3 scum and 1 cult in a 12 player game.

Ah, now I see where the misunderstanding was: I counted “3 scum and 1 cult” as “four scum.”

[farside22]

I'm more confused. You said you checked M4yhem. But didn't he turn out to be scum?

A changeling is certainly scum (because non of the claimed roles

should

be a changeling), but not every scum is necessarily a changeling (indeed, the Vorta are not, yet they are part of the Dominion).

--

I don't play often with cults in mini games. The few I know of there is still 3 scum and 1 cult in a 12 player game.

Ah, now I see where the misunderstanding was: I counted “3 scum and 1 cult” as “four scum.”

Scum = mafia
SK = SK
Cult = Cult
Just the way I see things. I forget some people clasify cult as scum. I see them all will different goals so I seperate them into groups.

[td]

Why not call the mafia “mafia?” Then you could use scum as a generic term for mafia, SK, cult and whatever not-town-aligned-roles there might be.

[farside22]

Why not call the mafia “mafia?” Then you could use scum as a generic term for mafia, SK, cult and whatever not-town-aligned-roles there might be.

I don't know. I just always think mafia is scum even when I am mafia. That would take a bit to adjust my thinking.

[frelaras]

Liam: When it came to the Jake Siskso claim, you were really dubious of the vanilla nature of it. What do you think about the 2 people claiming vanilla this time? I'll put aside the whole 'what are claims worth issue' since we're obviously evaluating claims at this point.