Mini 681 - Mish Mash Mafia - THE END!

[MafiaSSK]

Oh yes, I guess you are.

But explain to me why you're voting for the person who basically clarified an idea that was already on the table rather than the person who suggested the idea? I agree that it's a better idea, but I don't see why making something more clear=more town.

Because I think that Caboose actually seems scummy unlike sekinj.

[letsbefriends]

What posts of his makes him seem scummy?

[MafiaSSK]

What posts of his makes him seem scummy?

Nevermind. Did a quick reread and actually though he seemed pretty town.

Unvote, vote caboose

[ShadowGirl]

Oh yes, I guess you are.

But explain to me why you're voting for the person who basically clarified an idea that was already on the table rather than the person who suggested the idea? I agree that it's a better idea, but I don't see why making something more clear=more town.

Because the intial suggestion of the idea seems to be WIFOM as to the person's allignment. And why doesn't making it more clear make them more town? Well, at least seem more town, anyway.

[letsbefriends]

Quick it was.

What do you think of skipping the vote for executioner and vote for who to lynch like in a regular mafia game? That way, majority would be deciding who is lynched, instead of one person.

[letsbefriends]

Oh yes, I guess you are.

But explain to me why you're voting for the person who basically clarified an idea that was already on the table rather than the person who suggested the idea? I agree that it's a better idea, but I don't see why making something more clear=more town.

Because the intial suggestion of the idea seems to be WIFOM as to the person's allignment. And why doesn't making it more clear make them more town? Well, at least seem more town, anyway.

I find it to be in the same vein as fixing spelling errors to make things more understandable. I would think that the person who actually suggested the idea would be considered more town in the first place.

[MafiaSSK]

Quick it was.

What do you think of skipping the vote for executioner and vote for who to lynch like in a regular mafia game? That way, majority would be deciding who is lynched, instead of one person.

I wholeheartedly agree with the idea which is why I've used the format suggested by sekinj.

[letsbefriends]

Quick it was.

What do you think of skipping the vote for executioner and vote for who to lynch like in a regular mafia game? That way, majority would be deciding who is lynched, instead of one person.

I wholeheartedly agree with the idea which is why I've used the format suggested by sekinj.

I'm not talking about that though. I'm asking what you think of playing this like a regular mafia game rather than electing an executioner. We lynch who is most scummy. It removes the possibility of electing scum as the executioner.

[MafiaSSK]

Quick it was.

What do you think of skipping the vote for executioner and vote for who to lynch like in a regular mafia game? That way, majority would be deciding who is lynched, instead of one person.

I wholeheartedly agree with the idea which is why I've used the format suggested by sekinj.

I'm not talking about that though. I'm asking what you think of playing this like a regular mafia game rather than electing an executioner. We lynch who is most scummy. It removes the possibility of electing scum as the executioner.

I think its a great idea to play it lkike a regular mafia game instead of an Elect the Executioner.

[sekinj]

*frustration*

FIRST OF ALL - I did not expand on Caboose's idea. Caboose wanted to do basically what LBF is wanting to do now. which is play like a regular game of mafia, and try to skip out on playing Elect the Executioner. I had a huge discussion with LBF about this, and I'm not sure why STILL no one understands (expecially LBF).

I do not like that idea, becuase it is defeating the "theme" part of this game (which to me falls into the category of outguesing the mod) I don't like that. INSTEAD I suggested that everyone Vote/Elect the executioner, and then GIVE INPUT on Lynch and Shoot. IF the executioner and/or Lynchee decided to do things differently than the town already decided, then we would judge that player for their actions and the merits of any arguements they make.

That woudl still keep the spirit of the game, and would give us lots of info. We have just as much chance at hitting scum as if we tried to play regular.

I signed up for MISH MASH mafia for a reason. That is what I want to play...

[lord_hur]

Back from my long WE. Wow you guys moved that thing fast.

After my catching up, two players stood out as towniest in my eyes : Mana_Ku for giving the most pro-town analysis, and sekinj for being the player whose ideas I agree the most with.

The two are pretty close, but I'm going to

Vote : Mana_Ku

because she came up slightly on top.

[Caboose]

I won't vote Caboose, that's a given.

By suggesting that idea, it seems as if he's pro-town

. I saw a game at the marathon day, where someone who also suggested an idea was the bad guy. This is a clear case of WIFOM.

See here why i believe proposing this idea is WIFOM. This is why it's not WIFOM to agree with it.

State every idea you want. It's good for town as it leads to discussion. However, there are ideas which i won't agree with or which I don't trust. Just like now.

Also, why don't you want to be the executioner?

I didn't propose that system to look pro-town, I did it to make an organized system.

x2 FoS: Mana Ku

For again, labelling my idea WIFOM when it clearly is not.

I'm interested in hearing KoC's response to my FoS. I'd also like to see his explanation for why he used an ad hom argument.

[letsbefriends]

*frustration*

FIRST OF ALL - I did not expand on Caboose's idea. Caboose wanted to do basically what LBF is wanting to do now. which is play like a regular game of mafia, and try to skip out on playing Elect the Executioner. I had a huge discussion with LBF about this, and I'm not sure why STILL no one understands (expecially LBF).

You're right, but the entire discussion we had wasn't focused on that. It was briefly discussed at the end and I guess it didn't completely register.

This opens all the previous questions I have directed to Mana then. Sekinj is providing an idea, just like Caboose had. Once again, why is her idea not WIFOM and his is? Same question to Shadowgirl since she seemed to agree with Mana on this.

I do not like that idea, becuase it is defeating the "theme" part of this game (which to me falls into the category of outguesing the mod) I don't like that. INSTEAD I suggested that everyone Vote/Elect the executioner, and then GIVE INPUT on Lynch and Shoot. IF the executioner and/or Lynchee decided to do things differently than the town already decided, then we would judge that player for their actions and the merits of any arguements they make.

That woudl still keep the spirit of the game, and would give us lots of info. We have just as much chance at hitting scum as if we tried to play regular.

I signed up for MISH MASH mafia for a reason. That is what I want to play...

Look, you're willing to have everyone state who they want to vote/lynch/shoot. If everyone participates, that means we are left with an executioner, a person who is to be lynched, and a person who is to be shot, all chosen by majority vote. If everything goes as planned, WE have already chosen who the executioner should lynch. The only difference from what I am suggesting now is that the executioner is given the OPTION of not following said majority and lynch whoever he wants. That is the only minor difference. To me, this minor difference tips the game in favor of scum, if we do elect a scum for an executioner. I cannot see why you are so opposed to playing a regular game of mafia when that is exactly what you suggested in the first place.

Besides the game is not going to be EXACTLY like regular mafia. One person gets lynched, one person gets vigged, no nights. It is still ETE no matter how you play it. The only thing that changes is strategy and tactic.

[sekinj]

I cannot see why you are so opposed to playing a regular game of mafia when that is exactly what you suggested in the first place.

and where was that? I NEVER suggested this, and you KEEP saying that I did. Please stop. I suggested that people give INPUT about who to lynch and shoot. Then the executioner would choose, and we would judge from there.

Really, as soon as we elect the executioner, they have all the power anyway about who to lynch. there is nothing holding them back from lynching whoever they want, no matter what little plan you put together. Why are you so intent on punishing others for not agreeing with you by implimenting an auto-lynch if they don't do what you want??


oh and

Fos: MafiaSSK{/b] for being so wishy washy.

[Caboose]

I don't know about anybody else, but I'm getting some anti-town vibes from Mana Ku as stated in my FoS.

Unvote

Vote: sekinj

Hasn't done anything all game that jumps out as scummy, but my vote is subject to change.

[letsbefriends]

I cannot see why you are so opposed to playing a regular game of mafia when that is exactly what you suggested in the first place.

and where was that? I NEVER suggested this, and you KEEP saying that I did. Please stop. I suggested that people give INPUT about who to lynch and shoot. Then the executioner would choose, and we would judge from there.

I've answered this in my last post.

The only difference from what I am suggesting now is that the executioner is given the OPTION of not following said majority and lynch whoever he wants. That is the only minor difference. To me, this minor difference tips the game in favor of scum, if we do elect a scum for an executioner.

You have said before that you prefer everyone to give input. What is the point of going through all that trouble if you want the executioner to have free reign to do whatever they want?

Really, as soon as we elect the executioner, they have all the power anyway about who to lynch. there is nothing holding them back from lynching whoever they want, no matter what little plan you put together.

Yes, and what I am saying is that we decide as a whole that it's better for town to not do that. If everyone decides to follow it, I don't see why anyone would deviate.

Why are you so intent on punishing others for not agreeing with you by implimenting an auto-lynch if they don't do what you want??

What do you mean I'm so intent on punishing others? What happens AFTER is not the issue. I was giving any answer to appease them so they would focus on the actual topic at hand. What I am asking is whether or not everyone agrees with skipping the elect an executioner stage and go straight to lynching. Skip executioner, skip chance to elect scum. That's the only thing I'm after here.

How about you set aside your personal reason for not wanting to follow this and tell me if you think cutting out the executioner would help town, or hurt it.

I don't know about anybody else, but I'm getting some anti-town vibes from Mana Ku as stated in my FoS.

Unvote
Vote: sekinj

Hasn't done anything all game that jumps out as scummy, but my vote is subject to change.

*facepalm*

THIS QUESTION IS ADDRESSED TO EVERYBODY:

Do you think skipping the 'elect an executioner' stage would be good or bad for town?

I do not want personal reasons. I just want you to discuss whether or not it would help or hurt town. I'm not asking if you want to go through with the plan or not.

[sekinj]

@LBF: you seem to not realize the fact that we can't just skip the 'elect executioner' because you want too. it's the mod's game. when we vote, we are voting for an executioner, no matter what you'd rather do. If you'd rather not play a mish-mash theme game... then replace out.

[letsbefriends]

@LBF: you seem to not realize the fact that we can't just skip the 'elect executioner' because you want too. it's the mod's game. when we vote, we are voting for an executioner, no matter what you'd rather do. If you'd rather not play a mish-mash theme game... then replace out.

*sigh* Think of it as a hypothetical. In this imaginary fairyland, everyone agrees to it, everyone follows the plan. Tell me if you think the plan would help or hurt town.

Like I've said before, we ARE playing mish-mash. It NEVER become regular mafia. It's strategy that changes.

[RestFermata]

sekinj doesn't seem to understand. We obviously can't do away with the mechanic of electing the executioner. What we

can

do, however, is hold the executioner accountable to the will of the town. It's kind of like the US Electoral College. The power of the vote is actually with the electors, but the electors have pledged to cast their ballots for the candidate that won their respective states.

I agree with the idea that we elect the executioner to carry out the TOWN'S plan. It makes the process more democratic. It hands the power to the majority, which favors the town. We're not making a theme game into a standard game. We're just making the most out of the process we're given. I don't see anything wrong with that.

[sekinj]

I cannot see why you are so opposed to playing a regular game of mafia when that is exactly what you suggested in the first place.

and where was that? I NEVER suggested this, and you KEEP saying that I did. Please stop. I suggested that people give INPUT about who to lynch and shoot. Then the executioner would choose, and we would judge from there.

I've answered this in my last post.

why do you keep mis-representing me?

The only difference from what I am suggesting now is that the executioner is given the OPTION of not following said majority and lynch whoever he wants. That is the only minor difference. To me, this minor difference tips the game in favor of scum, if we do elect a scum for an executioner.

You have said before that you prefer everyone to give input. What is the point of going through all that trouble if you want the executioner to have free reign to do whatever they want?

they will have free reign anyway, no matter what rules you try to enforce.

Really, as soon as we elect the executioner, they have all the power anyway about who to lynch. there is nothing holding them back from lynching whoever they want, no matter what little plan you put together.

Yes, and what I am saying is that we decide as a whole that it's better for town to not do that. If everyone decides to follow it, I don't see why anyone would deviate.

I'm saying that you can't control it, however much you would liek too. So, intead, the town should jsut give as much input as possible, use their best judgement to elect a town executioner, and analyse what happens.

Why are you so intent on punishing others for not agreeing with you by implimenting an auto-lynch if they don't do what you want??

What do you mean I'm so intent on punishing others? What happens AFTER is not the issue. I was giving any answer to appease them so they would focus on the actual topic at hand. What I am asking is whether or not everyone agrees with skipping the elect an executioner stage and go straight to lynching. Skip executioner, skip chance to elect scum. That's the only thing I'm after here.

How about we just try to use our reasoning abilities not elect scum? How is that so different from regular mafia? I don't see how we really have much of a choice anyway.

How about you set aside your personal reason for not wanting to follow this and tell me if you think cutting out the executioner would help town, or hurt it.

How am I making it personal? I'm just trying to play a theme game. I don't think that playing it the way we are supposed to gives the town less information.

I don't know about anybody else, but I'm getting some anti-town vibes from Mana Ku as stated in my FoS.

Unvote
Vote: sekinj

Hasn't done anything all game that jumps out as scummy, but my vote is subject to change.

*facepalm*

you shoudl be glad that I am being voted for! if anything it puts me under even more scruteny. If I am elected executioner I will certainly be judged again tomorrow. Picking who to lynch by myself is not someting I am looking forward too, because even if I go with the majority I will bear the brunt of the pressure and consequences. And Maybe I will just be shot by the person lynched anyway.

THIS QUESTION IS ADDRESSED TO EVERYBODY:

Do you think skipping the 'elect an executioner' stage would be good or bad for town?

I do not want personal reasons. I just want you to discuss whether or not it would help or hurt town. I'm not asking if you want to go through with the plan or not.

I don't think it is any better or worse for the town on D1.

[letsbefriends]

I don't think it is any better or worse for the town on D1.

Mmmm, what a nice neutral statement. Yay, more questions,

1) Do you think removing the possibility of scum being elected executioner would not help town?

2) Do you think allowing one person to decide who to lynch would be better than allowing town to decide who gets lynched by majority vote?

p.s. Remember this is hypothetical. I am not referring to what we are discussing in game directly.

[sekinj]

I don't think it is any better or worse for the town on D1.

Mmmm, what a nice neutral statement. Yay, more questions,

trying to pick the towniest looking player is just as much a guesing game as trying to pick the scummiest.

1) Do you think removing the possibility of scum being elected executioner would not help town?

Theoretically, yes. however, in practice that is impossible. If we knew who the scum were, we wouldn't even be playing this game.

2) Do you think allowing one person to decide who to lynch would be better than allowing town to decide who gets lynched by majority vote?

theoretically, no. but again we don't have a choice. Yes, I think all the town SHOULD give input, and the executioner would probably be smart to go with that decision. However, if cercumstances present and the executioner decides on their own, they will face the analysis and judgement of the town for it. How is that Bad?? I feel we have just as much chance of hitting scum as we normally would on Day1.

Please remember that there is a good chance of the worse case scenaio. We elect a town executioner, they lynch a townie who shoots a townie. then tomorrow the town is hell-bent on lynching the townie elected the day before (via whatever mish-mash game is active).

Personally, i don't think we are getting anywhere debating this. either the town is goign to give input or not. someone will be elected, and then that person will decide how they are goign to play.

[letsbefriends]

1) Do you think removing the possibility of scum being elected executioner would not help town?

Theoretically, yes. however, in practice that is impossible. If we knew who the scum were, we wouldn't even be playing this game.

Refer to RF's last post. The executioner does not stray from majority vote. Whoever becomes executioner WILL kill the person with majority vote. Electing scum would not make a difference in that case. What it becomes is majority will decide who is to be lynched. It's not impossible, or even theoretically impossible. It's possible.

2) Do you think allowing one person to decide who to lynch would be better than allowing town to decide who gets lynched by majority vote?

theoretically, no. but again we don't have a choice. Yes, I think all the town SHOULD give input, and the executioner would probably be smart to go with that decision. However, if cercumstances present and the executioner decides on their own, they will face the analysis and judgement of the town for it. How is that Bad?? I feel we have just as much chance of hitting scum as we normally would on Day1.

The fact is, we can turn this into a majority vote lynch if we want. So what I want answered is if you think majority vote would be better than letting one person decide. If it's better, why you don't agree with it if it can be done.

Personally, i don't think we are getting anywhere debating this.

I disagree. You're answering the questions I'm asking instead of beating around the bush, sort of.

[sekinj]

Personally, i don't think we are getting anywhere debating this.

I disagree. You're answering the questions I'm asking instead of beating around the bush, sort of.

and it is getting us no where. we are just creating white noise instead of actually discussing who might be scum. I'm going to shut up for a while and let others talk so i can get more of a read on people.

[letsbefriends]

and it is getting us no where. we are just creating white noise instead of actually discussing who might be scum. I'm going to shut up for a while and let others talk so i can get more of a read on people.

How does it get us nowhere? If it will benefit the town, why should we not do it? Still, no one has provided substantive reasoning for why we should not follow it.