Mini 670-Kirby Mafia OVER!

[Kmd4390]

Nat didn't have to claim yet, but I don't see any reason to out the other mason yet.

[Ku_F]

Deadline is extended. We have two days extra.

I'm asking who the other mason is, because I've read a game where scum claimed mason. The others players then asked who the other mason was, but the claimed mason refused to name that player. In the end, every player claimed their role and there was no other mason. I want to make sure if this isn't the case in this game.

[Save The Dragons]

I think it can wait at least until tomorrow. While I don't like the claim, I don't think he's really in danger, nor is it necessary right now for him to clarify atm.

[Kmd4390]

I've never seen scum claim mason before. I think on day 1, we don't need to out masons yet. Keep in mind the possibility that masons aren't always both town too.

[Save The Dragons]

Exactly...masons are a null claim and aren't really useful because of the possibility of one being scum.

[wolframnhart]

Jebus is scummy scum scum, and being obvious about it while trying not to be... or he is a jester, but I think the former is much more likely.

After a quick reread I see where you are coming from with Wolf, so

unvote Vote Wolframnhart

who I feel has given very little actual opinion on anything, and has done very little in the way of helping the town do anything.

Look, I find Jebus the most scummy in the game at the current time, but with the deadline imminent, and it not really looking like Jebus would be lynched I looked at the other person who had lots of votes and decided I would be okay with that lynch as well.

If you really want me to do an actual analysis of Jebus I will but I feel that my feelings on the posts he has made is fairly clear.

Since Jebus is now at a point where he could be lynched I will

unvote vote Jebus

again.

Also

Mod I second the request for a deadline extension especially since someone is in the process of being replaced

.

Really don't like this train of thought DoS. You stated you believed jebus o be scummy scum scum (and I even pointed this out after you voted me) then your next post you vote for me because I did very little to help the town. Next thing you post up is you admitting that you believe jebus to be scum, but only voted me because the deadline was coming up and I had the most votes on me and because it didn't look like Jebus would be lynched. Where were you trying to get Jebus lynched if you were so sure of his scumminess? How is sitting back saying "jebus is scummy scum scum" more helpful to the town then anything i have done??

vote DragonsodSummer

[wolframnhart]

EBWOP

vote DragonsofSummer

[DraketheFake]

Verbal

He was town and has been replaced.

Current Read=100% Town

Yes, you're so clever.

And I don't like your reads either.

Vi wasn't suspicious of Wolf for not bandwagoning.

Then I guess he probably shouldn't have said that he was? Read it again. He goes so far as to say that if wolf had voted Jebus, it would have "legitimized" both votes in his mind.

You really seem to be pushing a lynch on Jebus over Wolf.

Because everybody who wants wolf is doing it for crappy reasons and they're all using the fact that Jebus is so scummy as one of the reasons that wolf is suspicious.

With two days to go, though, I'm hoping I can swing a new player who picqued my suspicion.

Unvote, Vote: Kmd4390

1. Made a lot of dependent cases on everybody he finds to be scum (if X is scum, then I'll look at Y). Also used meta to cozy up to Save The Dragons, one of the more active players who has thus far escaped suspicion.
2. Replaced in and immediately made a point of mentioning how townie he was. Attempted to disguise as a joke.

[Vi]

DraketheFake, while I abide by a maxim of "Classy, Not Trashy" in general, I've a nagging temptation to plainly tell you to Shut Up. Call this post a Chainsaw Defense if you like; I'm just really fed up with this mess.

Yes, you're so clever.

And I don't like your reads either.

2. Replaced in and immediately made a point of mentioning how townie he was. Attempted to disguise as a joke.

Um, he didn't "mention how townie he was"; that would be a poor attempt to twist his words. He called himself Pro-Town, which is by itself a null-tell and doesn't lean toward becoming a scumtell until the person in question says it repeatedly, especially to justify previous actions. And even then, Personal Experience

means nothing

says it's not a definite scumtell.

Oh, and you never mention exactly what it is you hate about his reads, aside from how he calls me Town as of right now (see next) and says he should look at you if wolframnhart flips scum (see later).

Then I guess he probably shouldn't have said that he was? Read it again. He goes so far as to say that if wolf had voted Jebus, it would have "legitimized" both votes in his mind.

What you have said is technically correct, but against the spirit of what I was getting at. Read it again.

Vi wasn't suspicious of Wolf for not bandwagoning. He was suspicious of Wolf for bandwagoning Nat, but not Jebus.

Reading comprehension > selective quoting
I should also reiterate that I initially voted wolfo based on

why

he bandwagoned Natirasha.

Because everybody who wants wolf is doing it for crappy reasons and they're all using the fact that Jebus is so scummy as one of the reasons that wolf is suspicious.

Not true in Natirasha's case, or at least the last time I checked it wasn't. But that's nitpicking.
As far as "crappy reasons" go, I can't fault you for having an opposite opinion but I also don't really expect truly bad logic to linger as long as this wolf wagon has. *shrug*
See also the last sentence of the previous point.

With two days to go, though, I'm hoping I can swing a new player who picqued my suspicion.

Unvote, Vote: Kmd4390

Paraphrased: "Yeah, I just called this guy out! Wagon plz, saving Vi for later"

1. Made a lot of dependent cases on everybody he finds to be scum (if X is scum, then I'll look at Y). Also used meta to cozy up to Save The Dragons, one of the more active players who has thus far escaped suspicion.

Um, I see one, maybe two cases like that, and the certain one involves you, of course. As far as STD goes, Kmd actually says that he's more wary than normal of him, not that he's comfy with him.

I dislike throwing my vote around, so as horrible as this previous post was, for now I'm going to hold out that you're a well-meaning Townie off in left field... until you try something like this again, at which point I'll shelf wolfie and pursue you.

-------------

I see where you discredit Nat's scum claim because he implied that you are scum too. Do you still think Nat could be scum?

Who knows. Natirasha is

always

anti-Town, and prides himself for it. But as of now, I don't see an especial reason to believe that he's pro-Scum, if that makes any sense.

-------------

@wolframnhart: Where did your username come from? (specifically that 'n' that keeps tripping me up)

[DraketheFake]

DraketheFake, while I abide by a maxim of "Classy, Not Trashy" in general, I've a nagging temptation to plainly tell you to Shut Up.

I'm not an asshole, but...

that would be a poor attempt to twist his words.

No it wouldn't. I actually let him off easy. The guy tried to point out, offhand, that he was a townie. There's no good reason to do that. If you're gonna claim, claim (see: Natirasha). If you're going to pussyfoot around the issue and disguise your "townieness" as a joke, then I'll go ahead and call you (Kmd in this case, not you Vi) out on a distracting play at the very least and a scummy one some of the time.

What you have said is technically correct,

but against the spirit of what I was getting at.

Read it again.

Vi wasn't suspicious of Wolf for not bandwagoning. He was suspicious of Wolf for bandwagoning Nat, but not Jebus.

Reading comprehension > selective quoting

I should also reiterate that I initially voted wolfo based on why he bandwagoned Natirasha.

Right, but again: YOU brought up the fact that you thought Jebus was a better wagon than Nat AND used that as one of your reasons why you kept your vote on wolf. What do you mean, "against the spirit of what you were getting at?" The spirit of what you were getting at when you said that wolf voting for Jebus would have "legitimized" both of those votes? You can't have it both ways, Vi: either you're mainly suspicious of wolf for his initial reasons for voting for Nat (in which case a vote for Jebus shouldn't have done shit), or you're mainly suspicious of wolf for not voting for Jebus, in which case your logic is leaky and your suspicion is weak sauce.

Paraphrased: "Yeah, I just called this guy out! Wagon plz, saving Vi for later"

Nitpicking, but I actually unvoted Jebus, not you.

Um, I see one, maybe two cases like that, and the certain one involves you, of course. As far as STD goes, Kmd actually says that he's more wary than normal of him, not that he's comfy with him.

And then proclaims him "town."

But you got me on the generalizing. The other one I saw was Capricious.

P.S. Your pre-use of the term "chainsaw defense" doesn't make you look less guilty of it.

[Vi]

The guy tried to point out, offhand, that he was a townie. There's no good reason to do that. If you're gonna claim, claim (see: Natirasha). If you're going to pussyfoot around the issue and disguise your "townieness" as a joke, then I'll go ahead and call you (Kmd in this case, not you Vi) out on a distracting play at the very least and a scummy one some of the time.

You're calling him on a distracting play, making it more of a distraction. I think we both agree it's a null-tell. Let's drop it.

The spirit of what you were getting at when you said that wolf voting for Jebus would have "legitimized" both of those votes?

Very well... I'll say it again.
wolf voted Natirasha based on holey reasoning that I pointed out shortly before he voted, and didn't unvote afterward. The Jebus wagon came along, and it had more merit to it. Yet wolf said there was nothing worth voting Jebus for. So why did he try to wagon Natirasha, but not Jebus when there was a stronger case there? Had he voted Jebus, I would have been more inclined to let the scummy Natirasha vote go as an early-game mistake by someone trying to scumhunt. He didn't, so I'm wondering just what's fueling his vote.

You can't have it both ways, Vi: either you're mainly suspicious of wolf for his initial reasons for voting for Nat (in which case a vote for Jebus shouldn't have done shit), or you're mainly suspicious of wolf for not voting for Jebus, in which case your logic is leaky and your suspicion is weak sauce.

I'd hate to turn this into a meme, but Concept of Two Strikes > False Dilemma.
In other words, one suspicion segues into another, creating a cohesive whole.

And then proclaims him "town."

Because he didn't have anything on him, which worried him from a meta-standpoint. Should Kmd have dubbed STD scum based solely on a meta from a previous game?

P.S. Your pre-use of the term "chainsaw defense" doesn't make you look less guilty of it.

I said you could call it that if you like, so it doesn't really matter to me as of now. But stating my motive in the context of countering lame-ish arguments that may be used against me later is a bad habit of mine.

[Microphone_Kirby]

... Seriously guys (and gals), I can't keep up with any of you.

Microphone_Kirby

-not sure how you thought StD was directing the question about an FoS being serious at you. That makes it look like you are trying to be sure to answer everything. It's like you are trying to play the "good townie". If it was just honest confusion, ignore that comment. Looking back again, I see that StD never used a name in that post, so I can see where confusion might come from.

Post 97. After being asked if you have suspicions that aren't parroted, you simply call out lurkers and Nat's trap. Not much new there. I don't expect to see a lurker lynch on day 1, and Nat has been discussed plenty.

REALLY don't like the "fear" post. You aren't contributing nearly as much as you are posting. Also, you shouldn't "fear" anything about what you say if you are town. State your thoughts, and make sure we know them. It can be useful if you die and flip town. If you are scum, then yes, be afraid.

You say that flimsy reasons are all we have to go by. This isn't true. Good discussion is enough to make a reasonable lynch. In the same post, you say that a vanilla townie death does nothing. That's not true. You can gain quite a bit by reading someone's posts knowing that they were town and being genuine.

Not liking the part about sacraficing vanilla's at all. We don't want to sacrafice anyone. Yes, a mislynch of a vanilla townie is better than a mislynch of a power role, but still, we shouldn't be looking to "sacrafice" anyone town-aligned. And in LYLO, you don't want a mislynch at all. Never sacrafice a vanilla in LYLO because then you lose, unless you are scum.

Current Read=Scum

... "Playing Townie"??? Now I'm insulted. It's my credo: answer all questions and inquiries aimed at me. BTW, I really did think STD asked that question at me.

The last three Paragraphs: they're honestly how I felt... and frankly, I still do. Well... at least you didn't dismiss them as "Theoretically Wrong Opinions" and leave them to rot.

BTW, I'm getting hypocritical vibes from your post regarding Paragraph #3. I shouldn't fear saying anything??? Well, it seems like you're labeling be Scum because of what I said in those... posts. That was the most honest I've

ever

been, alignment be damned.

Frankly, why

shouldn't

I be afraid to speak my mind?


Other that that, I don't have any new opinions, and I still want to lynch Jebus ATM.

[Vi]

Frankly, why

shouldn't

I be afraid to speak my mind?

Are you sure you didn't mean "Why

should

I be afraid"? Accidentally misrepresenting your own position to turn people against you comes to mind.

That was the most honest I've

ever

been, alignment be damned.

Like this. This can be construed as saying "I should be lying as scum, but that was where I was telling the most truth!" There's really no reason for that last part to be tacked onto the end... unless you're not telling the truth as a Townie in the first place.

Moving along with this, I disagree with your credo to a point. In the general sense, not answering questions @you is not good, and neither is just ignoring some accusations so people will think there's no rebuttal. But if it makes no difference whether you answer them or not, drop it.

Summed up: Watch what you say.

-------------

And talking of watching what people say. Apologies to DtF for yesterday. I was out of line (obviously).

[MafiaSSK]

Does anyone think there needs to be a week extension?

[wolframnhart]

@Vi

my user name comes from the Joss Whedon

Angel

series. There was an evil law firm named Wolf, Ram, and Hart.

mod i think there should be a week extension only if Ozy doesn't post up and needs to be replaced

[Kmd4390]

Verbal

He was town and has been replaced.

Current Read=100% Town

Yes, you're so clever.

Then I guess he probably shouldn't have said that he was? Read it again. He goes so far as to say that if wolf had voted Jebus, it would have "legitimized" both votes in his mind.

Vi, correct me if I'm wrong on this one. It looked more like Vi was concerened with Wolf bandwagoning Nat, but NOT Jebus. Not just the fact that he didn't bandwagon Jebus, but that combined with the fact that he DID bandwagon Nat for what, to Vi, seemed like less reason.

Because everybody who wants wolf is doing it for crappy reasons and they're all using the fact that Jebus is so scummy as one of the reasons that wolf is suspicious.

I agree that people thinking that should be voting Jebus over Wolf. If you look at my catch up post though, I don't get a scum read from Jebus.

1. Made a lot of dependent cases on everybody he finds to be scum (if X is scum, then I'll look at Y). Also used meta to cozy up to Save The Dragons, one of the more active players who has thus far escaped suspicion.
2. Replaced in and immediately made a point of mentioning how townie he was. Attempted to disguise as a joke.

1. I think I only did that with the Drake, Caps, Wolf thing. It was what came to mind when I was catching up, so I posted it. No reason not to.
1b. If you'll read what I said, the only meta was that I got a town read from StD in another game, but he was scum. He gives off the impression that he is town with the fear that he could be scum flying under the radar. What I said is I am going to keep that in mind for this game. This is hardly "cozying up" at all.
2.Is this about how I said I know Verbal was town? Do you really think that I was thinking "Ok, I'm scum, so I'm going to say I'm town. They'll never catch me that way! I'm a genious!" No, it doesn't work like that. I don't see how that's a scumtell at all. It's actually null because regardless of alignment, people will do that.

[Kmd4390]

.

If you're gonna claim, claim

(see: Natirasha). If you're going to pussyfoot around the issue and disguise your "townieness" as a joke, then I'll go ahead and call you (Kmd in this case, not you Vi) out on a distracting play at the very least and a scummy one some of the time.

I hope you aren't actually expecting me to claim right now.

And then proclaims him "town."

My

read

on StD is town right now. That doesn't mean I'm not watching him closely. I have 4 players who I have a scum read on. They come first, but StD (or anyone else) could just as easily be scum.

[Kmd4390]

Frankly, why

shouldn't

I be afraid to speak my mind?

If you lay your thoughts out, and then get killed, we know what you were thinking and can use it to catch scum.
If you are afraid to lay your thoughts out, and get killed, we have no way of gaining info.
We can also get a better read on you while you are alive. If you are town, you should have no problem with that.

[Kmd4390]

Does anyone think there needs to be a week extension?

If Ozy is replaced, the replacement will need time to catch up.

[Natirasha]

Does anyone think there needs to be a week extension?

No.

[Microphone_Kirby]

Frankly, why

shouldn't

I be afraid to speak my mind?

If you lay your thoughts out, and then get killed, we know what you were thinking and can use it to catch scum.

... Or blatantly ignore them, especially if they only echo another person's thoughts, but you have a point.

If you are afraid to lay your thoughts out, and get killed, we have no way of gaining info.

Well... True.

We can also get a better read on you while you are alive. If you are town, you should have no problem with that.

That's true to an extent, but what if your read is wrong and what if I can't sway you otherwise no matter what I post?

If so, it would be pointless arguing.

Does anyone think there needs to be a week extension?

I don't care either way. I'm not the time-keeper.

[Ozymandius]

Hi. I'm here. I'm getting sick, and I'm very tired so I can't really figure out what's going on right now. I can't do a read through right now in this condition. I know it's sketchy but I just can't figure this out right now. I'll try to get on later but I don't know if I can right now.

[Vi]

Would you like to be replaced?

----

@Extending the deadline: 'Doesn't matter to me, although I somehow doubt we would do much with the extra time tbh.

[MafiaSSK]

Then the deadline is tomorrow morning.

[Jebus]

FoS: Natarisha, Vi

More day = more discussion. More discussion = more time to form an opinion/get evidence for making a (hopefully) more accurate lynch.

So yeah, I'm much in favor of a deadline extension.