Open 86 - Lovers Multiball (Game Over)

[WaltWishbone]

I think I know what the tell is, Walt. Do you mind if I say it first to see if we're thinking along the same lines?

Absolutely, as soon as BM posts. RR was not too impressed, but to me its something. I hope people can add to it, even though I was all over the place yesterday and really trying to push buttons, I did mean what I first posted. I don't want to have a bad lynch.

[WaltWishbone]

absolutely, go for it

[Knight of Cydonia]

Okay, here's what I'm thinking: why did BM need to be sent teh link by the mod? As a town replacement, I was sent the link to mine and Crazy's daytalk as soon as I replaced in, and bookmarked it to make sure. Was there some discontinuity between scum and town PMs, in that scum were sent TWO daytalk links - one for team, and one for their lover and them alone?

This may be different to your idea, Walt, but this intrigues me.

[SleepyPanda]

@WWB, if you still want to argue about the english lesson, go ask RR. I'm sure he can explain it to you. Or I probably will when I make a formal case on you soon.

VOTE: Armix

DGB/Darox, BM/CW if you wanted your shot at saving Charter/Cephrir it is right now and only now...

Wow, if this isn't blatent buddying up, I don't know what is. Why are you only addressing Darox and BM couples when there are other couples you don't even mention?

You want to "save" charter now? Do you think he's town all of a sudden?

...you know as far as I am concrened neko/sekinj are my top town reads, there has been no case whatsoever, this entire game presnted against them.... why do you Sleepypanda and Armix keep insiting there is? Give me one tangible fucking fact and I might change my vote.

I find this very interesting. Why do you bring this out of the blue? I don't recall armlx ever mentioning them as suspicious, but I did. You also fail to address the context in which I believe they are scum. I said they are most likely charter's scumbuddies. Go back and look at interactions between every pair and charter/Cephrir. The only two couples who do not attack charter/Ceph quite visibly, or at all, are ThAdmiral/DBE and neko/sekinj. I was role fishing when I continually called neko scum. I wanted to see how'd they react. In fact, I think I made a mistake somwhere. WWB/RR and neko/sekinj seems more likely to be a mafia pair than charter/neko. Charter is probably the final WW pair.

With WWB's erratic posting, constant voting and unvoting, attempts of buddying, strawmanning, it's a whole plethora of scumtells. I still need to reread and get my thoughts straight though.

[Raging Rabbit]

A big at page 83.

Not convinced by BM's daytalk at all, am contemplating switching to them but would still rather give them the time to say a bit more than give it to charter who's gone manic. BM, post times asap.

I think I might have had a pro town read on ceph if charter wasn't so completely scum.

[ThAdmiral]

I'll always welcome darla back, but I believe she is gone for good.

BM's daytalk is sparse, but then again so is mine so who am I to judge.

[Raging Rabbit]

Um, why exactly are you voting Crazy? Any thoughts on charter and ceph?

[Darox]

So why hasn't WWB been wagoned to death yet?

[WaltWishbone]

@WWB, if you still want to argue about the english lesson, go ask RR. I'm sure he can explain it to you. Or I probably will when I make a formal case on you soon.

Dude, that page was the funniest page of the thread, imo and there was little to no coherent or intellectual thought, it was a pissing contest over semantics. The comment reads clear to me and if it did not read clear to you at first then I hope with my explanation you now understand. I was asking a question, however as a few people have pointed out our opinions are irrelevant. It is the Moderators decision which is great.

VOTE: Armix

DGB/Darox, BM/CW if you wanted your shot at saving Charter/Cephrir it is right now and only now...

Wow, if this isn't blatent buddying up, I don't know what is. Why are you only addressing Darox and BM couples when there are other couples you don't even mention?

You want to "save" charter now? Do you think he's town all of a sudden?

No, I want to give them a chance if they are town. I do have have a doubt. I am not sure how positive we can be that anyone is scum and I think the Iceman case was just really good research by Adel and I doubt we will have that kinda luck again. I kinda borrowed from DGB/Adel in that approach, I wanted to see what happened, if these people jumped on your wagon and they didn't. It's not a complete town tell but it helps bring credibility to their defense. I still have Charter/Cephrir and Battlemage/Cw at the top of my LoS but we have six days until the deadline so I don't thin its a bad idea to explore other cases.

...you know as far as I am concrened neko/sekinj are my top town reads, there has been no case whatsoever, this entire game presnted against them.... why do you Sleepypanda and Armix keep insiting there is? Give me one tangible fucking fact and I might change my vote.

I find this very interesting. Why do you bring this out of the blue? I don't recall armlx ever mentioning them as suspicious, but I did. You also fail to address the context in which I believe they are scum. I said they are most likely charter's scumbuddies. Go back and look at interactions between every pair and charter/Cephrir. The only two couples who do not attack charter/Ceph quite visibly, or at all, are ThAdmiral/DBE and neko/sekinj. I was role fishing when I continually called neko scum. I wanted to see how'd they react. In fact, I think I made a mistake somwhere. WWB/RR and neko/sekinj seems more likely to be a mafia pair than charter/neko. Charter is probably the final WW pair.

With WWB's erratic posting, constant voting and unvoting, attempts of buddying, strawmanning, it's a whole plethora of scumtells. I still need to reread and get my thoughts straight though.

I need to re-read their interactions with Sek/Neko and Thead/dbe, I didn't notice anything odd but I will take a look. Fishing makes sense, I think we all do it to a degree and as I explained above I did a bit myself last night. As far as your points, like I wrote I don't think its a bad thing to make cases even if it's against myself and RR. I am far from buddying up to Charter, I've been on them for a few weeks. Strawmanning, voting and unvoting was comical, in the end after talking with RR in daytalk I do believe my vote will land on Charter/Cephrir but I really wanted to give them one last chance. We are running out of townies and I think it's in our best interest to be conservative.

[WaltWishbone]

Okay, here's what I'm thinking: why did BM need to be sent teh link by the mod? As a town replacement, I was sent the link to mine and Crazy's daytalk as soon as I replaced in, and bookmarked it to make sure. Was there some discontinuity between scum and town PMs, in that scum were sent TWO daytalk links - one for team, and one for their lover and them alone?

This may be different to your idea, Walt, but this intrigues me.

That is interesting, I thought about that when he made the comment. In the roll pm on page one, it specifies one daytalk forum for four people, but that doesnt mean there wasn't a second. My tell is different, it has to to with days and times, so I need to see BM's before revealing what it is or else it will give it away.

[ThAdmiral]

crazy pointed out to the mod that toaster strudel had broken the rules, leading to his death.
That and the fact that everyone keeps saying he's confirmed town, when he's not.

[sekinj]

crazy pointed out to the mod that toaster strudel had broken the rules, leading to his death.
That and the fact that everyone keeps saying he's confirmed town, when he's not.

hmmm... still not understanding the leap to Crazy being scum... Granted he is a tattle-tale... but I woudl have doen the same thing in any game if I had noticed it first.
And the fact that the majority of players think Crazy is town? aren't you admitting that you are going against the town on that? since the majority of players are town?

I don't think Crazy is confirmed, but I think he's probably town. Do you seriously think the above is the best case out there?

[ThAdmiral]

I don't think Crazy is confirmed, but I think he's probably town. Do you seriously think the above is the best case out there?

To be honest no. But I don't really like the other two options either.

[Darox]

I don't think Crazy is confirmed, but I think he's probably town. Do you seriously think the above is the best case out there?

To be honest no. But I don't really like the other two options either.

Join the WWB wagon.

It has plenty of merit.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Ummm... where? I fail to see a case beyond Walt getting annoyed with SleepyPanda's misreading of his posts. Annoyed =/= scummy.

[Battle Mage]

Okay, here's what I'm thinking: why did BM need to be sent teh link by the mod? As a town replacement, I was sent the link to mine and Crazy's daytalk as soon as I replaced in, and bookmarked it to make sure. Was there some discontinuity between scum and town PMs, in that scum were sent TWO daytalk links - one for team, and one for their lover and them alone?

This may be different to your idea, Walt, but this intrigues me.

I dont use the Watched Topics feature of the site. I dont have any mafia related things on favourites. My inbox is normally bordering on full, and finding stuff is a nightmare if it isnt recent. Bearing in mind how long ago i replaced into the game, and how many pms ive recieved since then, its hardly surprising that i didnt bother looking.

Are you really claiming that there is a scumtell based upon speculation that perhaps the manner in which the Mod sent links is broken, when in reality, if scum had 2 links, they are just as likely to 'bookmark' both as a townie is to bookmark 1.

I'm really not impressed.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Post 1: 08-03-2008 09:42 PM ET (US)
Post 2: 08-06-2008 01:41 AM ET (US)
Post 3: 08-08-2008 10:44 AM ET (US)
Post 4: 08-20-2008 12:18 AM ET (US)
Post 5: 08-29-2008 12:13 AM ET (US)
Post 6: 08-29-2008 09:16 AM ET (US)
Post 7: 08-29-2008 10:31 AM ET (US)
Post 8: 08-30-2008 01:19 PM ET (US)
Post 9: 08-31-2008 11:01 AM ET (US)
Post 10: 09-11-2008 11:48 PM ET (US) (by this point, i'd long lost the link to the QT)
Post 11: 09-16-2008 09:41 PM ET (US
Post 12: 09-22-2008 09:39 PM ET (US)
Post 13: 09-25-2008 12:06 PM ET (US)
Post 14: 10-01-2008 03:58 AM ET (US)
Post 15: 10-04-2008 09:59 AM ET (US)

BM

[Raging Rabbit]

I don't think Crazy is confirmed, but I think he's probably town. Do you seriously think the above is the best case out there?

To be honest no. But I don't really like the other two options either.

Why not?
Why is it a scumtell that everyone thinks Crazy's town, are you saying we're

all

his partners? Do you really think he deserves to be lynched for alerting the mod on foul play?

BM, what do you think of charter?

[Battle Mage]

In my mind, Crazy-KoC are scum. It's fairly obvious to me. What unnerves me is, i can see them making it to the end unless they are nipped in the bud now. I won't be voting for anyone else today.

Who is Charter partnered with?

BM

[Raging Rabbit]

cephrir. Are you even reading the game?

[Knight of Cydonia]

No, he's just pursuing a ruthless, pointless vendetta against myself and Crazy because he hasn't got a leg to stand on in his own defence.

crazy pointed out to the mod that toaster strudel had broken the rules, leading to his death.
That and the fact that everyone keeps saying he's confirmed town, when he's not.

Following the rules =/= scumtell.
Other people calling us "as good as confirmed town" =/= scumtell.

I suggest, ThAd, you find a case with some actual evidence behind it.

[Battle Mage]

No, he's just pursuing a ruthless, pointless vendetta against myself and Crazy because he hasn't got a leg to stand on in his own defence.

crazy pointed out to the mod that toaster strudel had broken the rules, leading to his death.
That and the fact that everyone keeps saying he's confirmed town, when he's not.

Following the rules =/= scumtell.
Other people calling us "as good as confirmed town" =/= scumtell.

I suggest, ThAd, you find a case with some actual evidence behind it.

So you think, if you are confirmed town, it is scummy to be attacking you? Please explain.

And i fail to see what i'm meant to be defending against. There is no case for lynching me at this point. Maybe if you weren't fabricating false-dilemmas to make me seem scummy, people might take you seriously. Hell, you might even remove the doubts that some of us have about your alignment-because it isn't just me.

BM

[armlx]

I'm interested what WWB was going to say about the day talk. I still want to lynch BM on the principal of CWR stalling alone, not even counting his constant Crazy/KoC scum shit. WWB's complete flip out about an inactive being replaced was odd to say the least though.

[SleepyPanda]

@WWB, if you still want to argue about the english lesson, go ask RR. I'm sure he can explain it to you. Or I probably will when I make a formal case on you soon.

Dude, that page was the funniest page of the thread, imo and there was little to no coherent or intellectual thought, it was a pissing contest over semantics. The comment reads clear to me and if it did not read clear to you at first then I hope with my explanation you now understand.

I know what you were saying when you actually rephrased it so it actually made sense the way you meant it to be. I don't buy that it was just a pissing contest. You weren't testing to see if we were possible scum. You seemed to have been legitamately trying to convince others to vote armlx. To me, it seemed like you were trying to see what you could get away with. When no one agreed with you, or you discussed it with your lover(s), you gave up and started restating that you think charter and BM are scum.

I need to re-read their interactions with Sek/Neko and Thead/dbe, I didn't notice anything odd but I will take a look.

That's exactly the point. Almost no other people (that is alive) besides me, or RR, have tried pressuring Th/DBE, which shouldn't be, when they've been practically lurking the entire game.

I was asking a question, however as a few people have pointed out our opinions are irrelevant. It is the Moderators decision which is great.

Our opinions on DBE being replaced are not irrelevant. DBE is still posting at other games, EXCEPT THIS ONE. It's either active lurking or being useless. Neither benefits town. The only way it can possibly help town is if she is actually scum. One pair with both players having little to no contribution. If we go to LYLO, I DO NOT want them to be one of the other pairs.

[quote="BM]I dont use the Watched Topics feature of the site. I dont have any mafia related things on favourites.[/quote]
I find this hard to believe. How exactly do you keep track of your games? You have to be in at least over 5 games. Do you write the internet addresses of the game threads on a piece of paper or something? What if one of your games fall to like page 30 in the forums? Do you look through each page for it? Is not having this game on your 'Watched Topics" the reason for not posting?

[WaltWishbone]

It is explained in the set-up, that there would be daytalk provided for the 2 scum groups and the 8 lover couples. The original set-up did not include daytalk as it was added after the game had been created.

.::] The Setup [::.

Lovers Multiball is a Nightless game. The end of each Day is immediately followed by the next. There is no Night phase.

16 players, in 8 pairs, received the following role PM:

Your role:

You are a

Townie

. You and

XXX

are Lovers and know the other is innocent. You cannot live without each other. If one of you dies, the other will commit suicide.

You may daytalk with your Lover here: [link to quicktopic]

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

Please confirm via PM by:

1. Naming your role name and Lover, if you have one; and
2. Naming which number the following rule is:

[random rule]

The game's thread is here: Open 86 - Lovers Multiball

4 players, in 2 pairs, received the following role PM:

Your role:

You are part of the

Mafia

with XXX, YYY and ZZZ. You and

ZZZ

are Lovers. You cannot live without each other. If one of you dies, the other will commit suicide.

You may daytalk with your team here: [link to quicktopic]

You win when the Mafia make the only living players or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Please confirm via PM by:

1. Naming your role name and Lover, if you have one; and
2. Naming which number the following rule is:

[random rule]

The game's thread is here: Open 86 - Lovers Multiball

4 players, in 2 pairs, received the following role PM:

Your role:

You are a

Werewolf

with XXX, YYY and ZZZ. You and

ZZZ

are Lovers. You cannot live without each other. If one of you dies, the other will commit suicide.

You may daytalk with your team here: [link to quicktopic]

You win when the Werewolves make the only living players or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Please confirm via PM by:

1. Naming your role name and Lover, if you have one; and
2. Naming which number the following rule is:

[random rule]

The game's thread is here: Open 86 - Lovers Multiball

On Sunday the 3rd at 9:35pm, it is announced that daytalking has been added to the set-up and links are being sent to each player. It

seems

to me that the set-up was intended to have a forum for the scum teams from the start and the forums for the town was added afterward.

I've added daytalking to the setup and will be PMing everyone links to quicktopics.

Also, note that I've amended rules 1 and 12.

The one thing we all share; scum and town is we each got an introduction post in the daytalk thread from destructor. The times would be the same for scum and town alike in their individual threads. According to the posted daytalk, the following times were given for the introduction post.

9:42pm - Sekinji/Neko & BattleMage/Clockwork
9:45pm - Armix/Sleepypanda & ?
10:07pm - crazy/KoC, Darox/DGB, ThAd/dbe, Charter/Cephrir, & WWB/RR

Unknown - Fire/Ice, Alaba.Kloud, Harvey/Cerebu, Adel & TS

*This is why I asked for your times DGB

So, doesn't it make sense that the scum groups were created before the town groups were created as they were an after thought in the original set-up? Doesn't it make sense that all the town daytalk groups were created at once?

Obviosuley having Fire/Ice times would be really helpful so I'm not sure how much good this does. I really would like to hear input from other players. I'm not sure this is such a scumtell as it helps provide leads, if that makes any sense. In otherwords, if Battlemage is lynched and flips scum, I would want to take a long look at Sekinji/Neko; are they bussing BM/CW?

I have Sekinj/Neko at the top of my town list, the only thing that I have found odd about them is the way their daytalk was numbered, which she explained well I thought. However as sleepypanda pointed out the other day; he has seen connections in their interactions which I'd like to read again if Battlemage was to flip.

Despite our exchange the other day, I still have sleepypanda/Armix near the top of my town list and RR has them in his top two town reads. However I do want to go read all their interactions with Fire and Ice again.

You know I just don't know about a Charter/Cephrir lynch and the fact that Charter has me and RR pegged as scum is making it really tough because we are not going to catch scum if they are trying to get us lynched. I am convinced the best lynch is either Battlemage/CW or Charter/Cephrir, just not sure which. I would like to hear what everyone thinks of this post and I am going to do one last read before voting.

Again, I don't think this is a "know-all-scum tell", but I do think it points us in a direction at least. Esepcially if BM/CW are lynched and flip scum.