Mini 671 - Dwarf Fortress - Game Over!

[sekinj]

Sekinj - yes, you were asking for it. If it turns out you were actually scum in that game and there are some extinuating circumstances, I will gladly take back what I've implied about you.

or you could just leave that game where it belongs... in it's own thread.

[sekinj]

re-quoting for Ramus. If this doesn't answer your question, please be more specific.

RE: IL - I find his play too choreographed. Also, I wouldn't have noticed the tub/IL disagreement except that IL attacked tub for things that other poeple were doing as well. However - as a replacement I may have mis-read the mood of the game as often happens. I've seen replacements many times bring up things that the rest of the town feels have been over-discussed. That is why I wantd to get people's input before adding a fos or vote. If IL is not scum, then I think some of the less active players may bear some closer attention.

[andersonw]

I'm not going to give too much of my opinions on Timeater vs. everyone else thing yet, going to put some objective comments out there first.

Timeater: First, don't quote ongoing games.

You fool, thats exactly what WE DONT WANT.

I don't get this statement. Are you saying that you want the scum to have a night kill? And I highly doubt there is a SK in this game because there was only one night kill (although it is possible something could have happened, it's very unlikely).

Lol, you're so condescending.
<snip>
And if you actually read my recent posts, I address KoC directly and answer his post. You really arent helping yourself Pesco by making such a weak attack post. You'll have to do better than that.

I find the last part of your post very condescending to Pesco also (and I agree with other people that some other posts, like 255, are also condescending).

Quit being so dense and realize that if I just came out and said what you wanted me to, that would make a bunch of other people targets.

I really don't get how it would make a bunch of other people targets. Could you explain (unless if it's role-related)?

@Pesco - as for me "finding Roffman suspicious before the game got started" I was just messing around. Its odd that this has turned into what it is so far.

You seemed pretty serious with the "trap" that you set, it didn't seem like messing around to me.

KoC:

This only confirms for me that you were trying to WIFOM on the Cyberbob NK to get anyone who attacked you for a needless pre-emptive defence lynched.

I agree that it was WIFOM when Timeater said that statement, but I don't think that you can just immediately assume one side of the WIFOM because of one thing that Tim said.

I'm not mourning Cyberbob at all. In fact, I'm glad he's gone

You are glad a pro-town is dead?

Vote Timeater

Do you really think he meant the statement that way? It looked like that it was implied that he was glad because Cyberbob and him got into a flame war back in the game.

I'm 80% sure Roffman isn't scum at this point.

Unvote for now.

Wow, that was the quickest de-OMGUS I've seen in a while.

Umm... if I recall correctly, Timeater never voted for Roffman today. And Roffman never voted for anyone. So I don't see how that's an OMGUS.


reborn and iLord: please post something soon.

[Timeater]

Ok fine. I am a vanilla townie. Nothing in my role PM indicated I have a power. This is what Roffman has been getting at. We have different philosophies on how we should handle it, but I'm just going out and saying it now to clarify in the hope that it will be for the best. I was against this idea because it would give scum better chances at hitting townie power roles during the night. But I guess the upside is that it (hopefully) alliviates the paranoia revolving around Roffman and myself.

I don't get this statement. Are you saying that you want the scum to have a night kill? And I highly doubt there is a SK in this game because there was only one night kill (although it is possible something could have happened, it's very unlikely).

I was speaking directly to Roffman in an attempt to communicate that I dont want the scum to have a higher chance at targetting a townie power role. Hopefully this is clarification.

You seemed pretty serious with the "trap" that you set, it didn't seem like messing around to me.

I was refrencing the post about me being psychic and Roffman being scum.

Anyway, I dont like KoC and his attempt to exploit my post about thinking that a scummer wanted to frame me. I think that was a perfectly valid thing to say, and all he has said in response to that is WIFOM. Which is basically just avoiding the arguement.

I also want to hear from other players e.g reborn, ilord, more tuber.

[Tuberkulos]

One thing that speaks for Timeater's favor is this "too-scummy-to-be-scum"-thing, which I don't like at all. But it is indeed a valid point. Why would he NK Cyberbob, if he knew that he would have to explain himself directly after? Sure, it could be thought as a cover but it would be a very bold move. If Timeater hadn't got on defensive the first thing he did, I would have an easier time to accept him as town. But at the moment, I just don't know what to think about this situation.

@Roff - How does your death prove Tim innocent? More so, how do you truly know he's innocent?

Now this is what I'd like to know also.

[roffman]

If i die, you'd see how tim would be innocent. It is really very simple. However, the fact that he claimed vanilla townie despite how much i was implying that he had a power role makes me believe in his innocence. If it was merely a scum safe claim, they would be worried it would be trapped and either hold out longer or make a fake claim of a power role, in which case i would immediately view them as scum.

@tim: the best thing a vanilla townie can do is become confirmed and force scum to kill them or face a heavily wieghted town. It also informs everyone that has night actions, particular cops and vigs, that the pool of targets is smaller.

[Pesco47]

I'm just going to throw out my read on this whole cook-roleclaim.

When Roffman first said he wanted to be a lightning rod for NK, I felt it was WIFOM. Tim's reaction of saying he doesn't want to play that way, gave me the feel that they had abilities. My thoughts concluded that they were cops with sanity issues (multiple occurences of the same role on one side). This told me it would be WIFOM thrown at scum, I could accept that to be risky town play.

The problem now arises that they're claiming vanilla. Every team has vanillas, be they town, scum, cults, third party etc. Bob was also a vanilla, yet his role-title was animal trainer. One cook flipping vanilla is not going to clear anyone else.

[roffman]

when was i claiming to be a lightning rod? i said that it is beneficial for town for scum to target a Timeater, which as a vanilla townie, it is. The fact of the matter is it is always beneficial for an obvious target to exist for NK's, as it provides far more information for town power roles, and also makes it a lot harder for scum to kill.

[reborn537]

Roffman is correct - vanilla townies should simply try to be as useful as possible during the day, so that they can aid in the catching of scum AND appear a prime target for a nightkill.

[Pesco47]

That's quite interesting. Good townies prove themselves during the day by hunting scum, not asking o be lynched.

Moreover, why should scum target Tim over Roffman if they can both be confirmed vanilla and enter night together. There's some really bad logic going down here.

[Ramus]

I'm not convinced. Roffman and Timeater may have just gotten lucky and found each other to be townie, but it still seems to have happened a bit too well.

Also, I'm having trouble follow the logic of either of you, so...

##Vote: Timeater

Seems like a bad scum attempt at talking during the day or at least clearing themselves.

[Claus]

The History of Oslanvathez

The highest point in the history of the dwarf fortress was when its miners found a vein of adamantine.



However, as they dug deeper into the vein, a scene of nightmares became true. A mysterious room, filled with all kind of torture apparatus, mutilated bodies and depraved engravings, was encased in that mineral vein.

What could that mean?

Vote Count!

Timeater 3 - KoC, Sekinj, Ramus
Roffman 1 - Pesco

Not Voting

Tuberkulos, iLord, Reborn537, Andersonw, roffman, Timeater

With 10 creatures alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

[reborn537]

Timeater has just flipped town in DS9 mafia, a game I've been watching. As much as I dislike meta, I'm forced to admit that his play in these two games has been pretty much consistent, and therefore many of his scummy actions are based off of his playstyle.

[Pesco47]

Timeater has just flipped town in DS9 mafia, a game I've been watching. As much as I dislike meta, I'm forced to admit that his play in these two games has been pretty much consistent, and therefore many of his scummy actions are based off of his playstyle.

...

If you didn't care for meta, why did you read that game and get convinced by it?

[reborn537]

Even if I dislike a piece of evidence, it doesn't mean I shouldn't mention it. All evidence should be there for all parties to consider. Me not mentioning it would have shown a complete lack of objectivity.

[Pesco47]

Meta is no justification for scummy actions.

FoS Reborn

[sekinj]

I have some evidence about that game as well, since I was a part of it, however, as it is STILL ONGOING.... well, I think that's all i need to say.

[reborn537]

You were a part of it and therefore may have actual game information. I have said nothing that people couldn't have found out for themselves.

[Knight of Cydonia]

If I was a mod, I'd have made a double, maybe even triple mod-kill by now for all the referencing of ongoing games. Everyone, just stop it, now please.

[iLord]

@AW: Sorry still - I'm just really busy.

I promise I'll catch up in full tommorrow.

Loose comments - I believe Roffman and Timeater. Either both of them are scum or both of them are town - timeater would've had to be outrageously lucky or roffman would've had to be hoping on the small chance that timeater wouldn't claim a single power role.

I'm going to look into Pesco still, but later.

[iLord]

mDSD

Hey guys! I'm replacing Verbal who made exactly 2 posts... a lot to live up too there.

Anyway, I'm going to dive right in.
I've read through and I currently find iLord most suspicious. He has had plenty of reasonable looking discussions, but his only reason for suspecting Tub was that tub was trying to end the discussion phase. Ramus metioned trying to do the same thing, yet IL didn't suspect him. and then I don't like IL's subsequent trouble with the difference between "joking" and "eager"
Also, IL tried hard to be the peacemaker between CB and Time. Then near the end he says he supports the hammer on CC, but after the CC hammer tries to comfort the town by saying it was reasonable. He also acts innocent by throwing out his suspect "just in case he gets NK'd"
I think all of that is him trying too hard to be townie. IL's exlaination is that "trying to end the random phase isn't scummy, but using it as an excuse to do whatever is" I really didn't see Tub "doing whatever" but rather placing a semi-random vote and then disucssing it.

Tub tried to lynch someone to end the random phase. That's scummy.

I don't get what you mean by the support/comfort on the CC hammer.

I suspect Pesco more than ever now, and I wanted the town to heed my words if I die - I've had games where I was able to identify the scum, but was nightkilled. It's a low risk tactic with a lot of gain.

Again, Tub specifically said that he hoped for a lucky hit (aka Lynch) with his vote.

Odd that Cyberbob should die and turn town. It looks like someone is trying to frame me, the man who was belligerent with Bob and thought he scum adamantly, and who had very obvious feelings of disdain towards Bob. Looking the thread over now for any clues who might want to do that.

First of all, arguing wasn't scummy, even if Bob is town. Second of all, don't defend yourself from arguments that no one has made yet - it's bad for scum or townies.

I actually am reading this case of overdefensiveness as a null tell due to its deleterious nature to both scum and town.

Getting on the defensive before even countering an offensive - I dont see whats wrong with that - it shoots down any scum arguement it happens. Its just good forsight on my part. I'm scumhunting and trying to figure out who/why someone would do that, and Pesco seems to be the one driving that line of thought.

No - that argument may not be made against you at all. Defending now and later requires the same amount of effort, but you wait to see if the defense is neccesary before you make it.

What is a FoS other than a cleverly disguised "I think so"? Can this vicious little reply be anymore scummy?

I never said I dont like you, I said you've said some scummy things and did some things I didnt like.

And really - when have you needed full genuine proof to lynch someone? Are you saying its impossible to make a case against you without full proof? Are you saying that gut feeling and intuition are irrelevant? You'll be hard-pressed to find cases in mafia of absolute proof. Proof is not the basis of accusation.

Vote: Pesco

This post is weak - that's not what Pesco means.

Pesco case following this post, maybe tommorrow.

Why are you so intent on fishing for roles? You realize its a BAD idea to give scum ideas about who might have possible power roles and

who might not have power roles

? Get that through your skull.

Good job there Tim - not too obvious but enough to show that you had foresight about your role.

You are glad a pro-town is dead?

Vote Timeater

Seriously...

Imagine that your scum.

Then tell me that this is scummy.

I do not like Time's play at all. I will be the first to admit it may just be personality differences, but it is a good chance that many of the people he is talking to, calling dense, dodging questions from are town. I'm not 100% convinced Time is scum, but I have to be honest and admit that regardless the game woudl be better without him. We don't need town OR scum players that are detremental to the town. Time's play has been damaging all along. If Bob had not been NK'd Time would no doubt be leading the lynch against him. Time's playstyle and scumdar (or lack thereof) are not going to help us this game

vote: Timeater

If you need proof of Time's irrational and lashing out behavior, just watch how he reacts to this post.

This post is really scummy - advocating Tim's lynch even though he's town because he is harming the town?

How is he harming the town?

How do you know his scumdar is useless?

Even if it was useless, shouldn't we be using lynches on people were pretty sure are scum?

Like you?

FOS: Sekinj

I'm going to see wha't in a Pesco case, and then decide if I would rather have Sekinj or Pesco lynched.

Yes, thats right. I tire of playing alpha townie almost every other game I play.

I wouldn't mind having the players follow me every game.

----------------------------------------

Here Tim flames other posters.

Here, we ignore the insults, right guys?

Tim, if you can help it, try and control your temper. We're all here to have fun, and no one likes insults (Both from and towards you). If you really aren't enjoying this game, you can replace out - there's no need to continue doing something you don't want to do.

------------------------------------------

I'm not convinced. Roffman and Timeater may have just gotten lucky and found each other to be townie, but it still seems to have happened a bit too well.

Also, I'm having trouble follow the logic of either of you, so...

##Vote: Timeater

Seems like a bad scum attempt at talking during the day or at least clearing themselves.

Think before you act scummy - think how lucky either of them would have to be to be of opposite alignment.

Unless, of course, you think that they are both scum.

Do explain if you think so.

----------------------------------------------

Okay, Pesco case coming after I catch up in my other game.

[sekinj]

This post is really scummy - advocating Tim's lynch even though he's town because he is harming the town?

How is he harming the town?

starting flame wars, lashing out at everyone, including insults in almost every reply to a case against him... What better distraction do scum need?

How do you know his scumdar is useless?

Becuase he himself said that he would be going full tilt after cyberbob today if CB hadn't been NK'd.

Even if it was useless, shouldn't we be using lynches on people were pretty sure are scum?

idealy, yes. However, I think it's also important to limit distractions so that the town can win. If I can see a better case against someone else, or some scum makes a blunder, I will be more than happy to switch my vote to someone I am more sure is scum. Right now I have my vote on my top suspect.

Like you?

FOS: Sekinj

IL- if you had a case I could respond to it... but apparently you don't... do you at least have a reason?

[Timeater]

starting flame wars, lashing out at everyone, including insults in almost every reply to a case against him... What better distraction do scum need?

You are really making a mountain out of a molehill.

Becuase he himself said that he would be going full tilt after cyberbob today if CB hadn't been NK'd.

I was wrong about Bob, I dont claim to be infallible. I mistook Bob's hostility and arrogance as a scumtell, my bad.

idealy, yes. However, I think it's also important to limit distractions so that the town can win. If I can see a better case against someone else, or some scum makes a blunder, I will be more than happy to switch my vote to someone I am more sure is scum. Right now I have my vote on my top suspect.

What a horribly glib response. You're still basically saying you think I'm townie but I should be lynched anyways. Scumscumscum.

Vote: Sekinj

Will consider a KoC if he gets some votes and a momentum towards a lynch, but I'm quite happy going after Sekinj atm.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Will consider a KoC if he gets some votes and a momentum towards a lynch, but I'm quite happy going after Sekinj atm.

So in other words, you will follow whatever wagon looks most likely to end in a lynch of someone who has voted you?
iLord - loving your chainsaw defence of Timeater there. You start out mildly critical of Tim, but by the end you're defending every scummy action of his, and attacking myself, sekinj, and Pesco.

idealy, yes. However, I think it's also important to limit distractions so that the town can win. If I can see a better case against someone else, or some scum makes a blunder, I will be more than happy to switch my vote to someone I am more sure is scum. Right now I have my vote on my top suspect.


What a horribly glib response. You're still basically saying you think I'm townie but I should be lynched anyways. Scumscumscum.

No, that's not what sekinj said at all.
She didn't say she thinks you're town - she thinks your play is anti-town. At no point has sekinj said "Timeater is town, but annoying, so lets lynch plz, kthnxbai".
Tim's massive misrep of sekinj + iLord's chainsawing = scum pair?

[iLord]

asdfasdf

starting flame wars, lashing out at everyone, including insults in almost every reply to a case against him... What better distraction do scum need?

Ignoring his insults and keeping a townie alive would be ideal.

Becuase he himself said that he would be going full tilt after cyberbob today if CB hadn't been NK'd.

That doesn't mean his scumdar is always useless - he was wrong once - big deal. We've all been wrong mutliple times.

idealy, yes. However, I think it's also important to limit distractions so that the town can win. If I can see a better case against someone else, or some scum makes a blunder, I will be more than happy to switch my vote to someone I am more sure is scum. Right now I have my vote on my top suspect.

Top suspect? Your top suspect who you said was only a distraction for the town? Are you saying that he is scum for distracting the town? By drawing attention to himself?

IL- if you had a case I could respond to it... but apparently you don't... do you at least have a reason?

The point that you attacked Sekinj, citing that even if he is town, he is a distraction.

iLord - loving your chainsaw defence of Timeater there. You start out mildly critical of Tim, but by the end you're defending every scummy action of his, and attacking myself, sekinj, and Pesco.

I'm defending Tim because the points against him are weak.

I haven't attacked you, or Pesco from the recent post (My case is going to be focused on yesterday).

No, that's not what sekinj said at all.
She didn't say she thinks you're town - she thinks your play is anti-town. At no point has sekinj said "Timeater is town, but annoying, so lets lynch plz, kthnxbai".
Tim's massive misrep of sekinj + iLord's chainsawing = scum pair?

No, Seknij's only point against Tim is that even if he turns up town, he was only a dsitraction.

If she had some other points, I would consider the case, but that on it's own is a scum-motivated point.