Mini 659: The Neighborhood- Game over on Day 6

[M4yhem]

'Lynch me or whatever?' That doesn't sound like a doc.

[crywolf20084]

Actually, considering our circumstances, I am requesting Crywolf claim in her next post as opposed to waiting for L-1. I would like a full claim with flavor to give us time to analyze.

I'm the doc? Yeah, so I've made some poor choices in my wording sometimes but truthfully i've done my damnedest to find the scum. Lynch me or whatever.

A claim with a question mark? Please include the flavor as was asked for in the original request. Name of character and brief, loose paraphrase of the description without quoting the mod.

Sorry about the question mark. It's just a typo. I'm the local doctor of the town and I'm known for once being a big shot doc in a fancy hospital but would rather work in the small neighborhood.

I protected Rash N1 because he seemed to be pretty productive and I wanted to see him last to the next day.

'Lynch me or whatever?' That doesn't sound like a doc.

I know there are a couple people pretty set in lynching me today, such as Ythill, that most likely won't be swayed.

[Rashiminos]

Stopping in to say hello and to commit myself to make a post later tonight before I go bed.

[Rashiminos]

I had a feeling something like that was going to happen with the case on crywolf, a darned-good feeling. Sigh...

I blame myself. I wasn't here enough to stop unholy "scumhunting" directions.

Anyways, I'm not too intent on lynching the claimed doc today. My vote will not be there at deadline.

[bionicchop2]

I'm the local doctor of the town and I'm known for once being a big shot doc in a fancy hospital but would rather work in the small neighborhood.

I would kind of expect a doctor in this setup to be someone who has been there for a long time and people know him/her well (unless this was Arachnophobia - even then there was still the old time doctor who had been there forever).

Mr. Smith knows everyone by name, the ages of their kids, how folks lawn or home improvements are coming. He walks his dog down his block, up Main Street, around the elementary school, across the baseball field and through the little patch of woods behind his lot.

You almost sound like you could be a scum doctor (but that would imply there is a vig in the game). The game description gives me a feel that everybody has been there a long time.

I would like others to give their thoughts on the flavor. I am not sure how to proceed since the only other player with any votes I have near the top of my list would be PEN/Tommy. Cry has been active across the site much more than in this game. Doesn't quite say 'first game on the site and having the role of Doc' to me.

Other conflicts are with the claim of crashing computers when here activity elsewhere was not effected.

[bionicchop2]

I had a feeling something like that was going to happen with the case on crywolf, a darned-good feeling. Sigh...

Please expand on this.

[M4yhem]

I'm willing to believe the claim for now. Flavor seems okay and I expect a doc, so unless she's counter-claimed, I'm happy.

Also, in my opinion, lowered activity is a doc-tell, bionic.

Let's Lynch Darox. It's not like it's out of nowhere, he was nearly lynched yesterday and for good reason. He's only gotten scummier since then. If everyone who reads the thread votes for Darox, we could get him strung up by deadline.

[crywolf20084]

Other conflicts are with the claim of crashing computers when here activity elsewhere was not effected.

I wanted to spend sometime on this page after I did all the other stuff I'm active in, I wanted to focus on this for some time and then the my stupid internet went out for the second day in a row. It's fixed now.

[bionicchop2]

I'm willing to believe the claim for now. Flavor seems okay and I expect a doc, so unless she's counter-claimed, I'm happy.

Also, in my opinion, lowered activity is a doc-tell, bionic.

Let's Lynch Darox. It's not like it's out of nowhere, he was nearly lynched yesterday and for good reason. He's only gotten scummier since then. If everyone who reads the thread votes for Darox, we could get him strung up by deadline.

Some counter points:

-I honestly expected a doc claim from cry if she was scum which was part of the reason I wanted enough time to digest before deadline. Doc is the most often fake claimed power role by the first scum forced to claim.

-I am unsure if a doc should CC. Part of the reason scum fake claim doctor is to out the real doctor. If it meant we caught scum, I guess don't really mind trading a power role.

-In my only game as doctor, my activity did not drop (I am highly active anyway though). I haven't seen other doctors take this approach either - but it obviously doesn't mean they can't.

-On Darox, I still feel that is an incorrect lynch (as I stated in my unvote). His voting tells me he is more likely to be town than scum (does not eliminate him being scum). I have come to believe his playstyle is causing an innacurate read on him. I would be hard pressed to move my vote back to him when I have other people I view as scummier.

Hopefully we get a spike in activity over the weekend.

[M4yhem]

Which of Dorox's votes in particular suggest he is town?

It's true, Doc is the classic scum claim, but I'm willing to wait and see if she's nightkilled, rather than risk killing our doc.

I find that docs tend to be more catious than regular townies. It's not 100%, of course. YMMV.

[bionicchop2]

Numbers are mine added for reference:

(1)Which of Dorox's votes in particular suggest he is town?

(2)It's true, Doc is the classic scum claim, but I'm willing to wait and see if she's nightkilled, rather than risk killing our doc.

(3)I find that docs tend to be more catious than regular townies. It's not 100%, of course. YMMV.

(1) - It isn't any one vote. I have been working on some theories about how scum vote throughout the course of the game (which if they turn out to be too accurate will ironically become null in the future for anybody I have played with). I believe the old tell used to be that scum would vote for more players (wishy washy) and spread suspicion around. This was before I played here and I tried to look for that type of voting while scum hunting. Then I noticed that I vote more on day 1 than most players in any game I have played in. I recently (since this game started) went back and analyzed some of my completed games. For the most part (with few exceptions) scum were doing the exact opposite. It seemed to be scum did not want to confront and accuse too many players to limit the amount of attention they got. They were more decisive in who they voted for and had a tendency to stick with 1 person until they were lynched (or an opportune lynching jumped out).

So, when I look at the voting, I just went post by post (not current - stopped when I made my unvote on Darox as voting in later days is less conclusive in general using this analysis). I include myself for my own comparative purposes and don't expect others to associate me as town in this manner.

bionicchop2
(r)
# # vote iamausername
##vote: Crywolf
vote Lowell
---Day 2---
vote crywolf
##vote elias
vote TonyMontana
##vote Darox
=====================
crywolf
(r)##Vote: Lowell
## Vote: Lowell
##Vote: Lowell
---Day 2---
##Vote: Tommy
=====================
Darox
(r)Vote: Ythill
##Vote: iamausername
Vote: Rashiminos
##Vote: Lowell
##Vote: Lowell
---Day 2---
##Vote: TonyMontana

Darox had the most diverse voting choices out of the remaining players alive. My top suspects only voted for Lowell (excluding random) throughout the course of the day and never considered anybody else.

Lowell: Bus Driver, Vanilla Townie, was Lynched Day One
(r)##vote Elias
vote tony
## vote rash
##vote crywolf
=====================
iamausername: Piano Teacher, Miller, was killed Night One.
(r)Vote: bionicchop
##vote: crywolf
##vote: Darox

The dead townies also changed their votes a decent amount (iamuse notably less). I see Darox as playing a similar - but not exact - style as Lowell. Follows hunches and doesn't post great reasoning until pressed. I don't have the meta on Darox to look for subtleties on his town play vs. scum play though.

Now that I have posted this, any future voting can no longer play into my voting decisions.

(2) I am not completely against this, but would be more accepting if I saw a clearer lynch alternative.

(3) I could see doc's playing cautious. It is not impossible for cry to be doc, but there is sure a hell of a lot of evidence pointing the other direction.

[TonyMontana]

unvote
Vote: darox

Self-explanatory.

[crywolf20084]

unvote
Vote: darox

Self-explanatory.

Umm..I don't think so.

unvote Vote: TonyMontana.

You've been everywhere with your votes and your posts, and clearly my vote on Tommy wasn't going anywhere, at least now it's on somebody I beleive to be scummy.

[Ythill]

I find it odd that we'd have both a bus driver and a doc. Not out of the question, just out of the ordinary. Then again, why would scum claim doc if they already got the protective role lynched?

I thought the best place to start would be a peek into wolf's D1 treatment of Rash, but a look over it shows nothing contradictory.

During the skim, I found this breadcrumb, "I'm sorry if I've been a little busy with medical issues that will put me outta commission for a month." So, either wolf is a doc or she's been planning this claim for awhile. Or, I suppose, she's undergoing some strangely coincidental, non-debilative, month-long medical condition. If scum-wolf was planning the claim all along, we should be aware that her whole team was probably planning it, but I suppose that will not help us until her card's been flipped.

I must raise an eyebrow at M4y. I thought bionic's attacks against him were solid. Now he's pushing belief in the doc claim and calling for a counter. This certainly aids the hypothetical wolf-scum in acheiving her ends.

I think that wolf's flavor sounds too bland. And bionic might be on to something. My role PM doesn't mention other places.

How many of you were born and raised in the Neighborhood?

I'm comfortable with my vote for now, but do not intend to let wolf be lynched until we've looked at this from all the angles.

[pickemgenius]

I find it odd that we'd have both a bus driver and a doc. Not out of the question, just out of the ordinary. Then again, why would scum claim doc if they already got the protective role lynched?

Quick note.... Bus Driver was the Flavor, Lowell was actually a townie.


12-26(grr) up later tonight

[Darox]

I'm willing to believe the claim for now. Flavor seems okay and I expect a doc, so unless she's counter-claimed, I'm happy.

Also, in my opinion, lowered activity is a doc-tell, bionic.

Let's Lynch Darox. It's not like it's out of nowhere, he was nearly lynched yesterday and for good reason. He's only gotten scummier since then. If everyone who reads the thread votes for Darox, we could get him strung up by deadline.

This is adorable.

Lynch me because I say so is a compelling argument.

[Rashiminos]

I'm not liking m4yhem's initial posting. It smacks of joining some popular wagons (wolf, darox) and misses the fact that Lowell was lynched yesterday, which should explain where Lowell was on players' suspicion poles..

Did I? The two smoking guns I remember were (1) wolf saying she's comfortable with her OMGUS vote on Lowell and (2) wolf re-voting Lowell for the same tells she'd cleared him for with her meta read. These are the two I was refering to in my conclusion.

You didn't mention those clearly in your conclusion. Instead, you mentioned this:

Particularly damning are the smoking guns I pointed out, the rarity of original opinions from her, and her mysterious list which probably doesn’t even exist.

Make your crucial points more clear. Not all of us have the time to it takes to thoroughly check your entire post and notice some important points lost in the wall of text.

How do the actions of

other

players with unknown alignment have a bearing on whether crywolf is scum?

I'll just point you to the last paragraph of #407 where I explained this in a little more detail. If you have further questions I will answer them.

I do:

How did players (who found wolf to be somewhat scummy) that joined the Lowell wagon make wolf look scummier?
How does wolf (while having her actions downplayed) having been an alternative to Lowell make wolf look scummier?
How did "suspicious" players choosing to lynch Lowell over wolf make wolf look scummier?

Furthermore,

possible

townie motivation for an action is just as assumptive as

possible

scummy motivation. The difference here is that the sheer number of serious tells suggests that scummy motivation is more likley.

Assuming both possibilities keeps the bigger picture in mind. Your "sheer number" of "scum" tells suggests your criteria isn't strong enough. Some of the scumtells you proposed assume scumminess to 'prove' the validity of the tell. Your "smoking gun" of OMGUS is explained by a common newbie mistake. I'm not aware of sufficient meta to suppose differently.

PS: more to come in a little bit...

[Darox]

I think that wolf's flavor sounds too bland. And bionic might be on to something. My role PM doesn't mention other places.

How many of you were born and raised in the Neighborhood?

My role doesn't mention any places so I'm assuming I've been in the Neighborhood for 28 years.

[Darox]

I think that wolf's flavor sounds too bland. And bionic might be on to something. My role PM doesn't mention other places.

How many of you were born and raised in the Neighborhood?

My role doesn't mention any places so I'm assuming I've been in the Neighborhood for 28 years.

Actually, I read it wrong, it does imply I have spent all 28 years in the neighborhood.

[Rashiminos]

Don't much like Rash but don't have any cocrete reasons why; I'll pay attention to him from now on.

I'd venture to guess my day 2 absenteeism that you no doubt will be stumbling upon soon will not help that.

*Furthermore:

I'm going to take into consideration that you found your previous incarnation to be highly suspect.

Usually discussion of the nightkill is too WIFOMy to be of any real use. Reactions along the lines of thinking some of the Lowell voters are scum while probably correct are often misleading since townies are mixed in the wagon.

I find this unhelpful.
Some of his reasons are also wrong- ‘justifying the nightkill’ for example, seems false; trying to work out why someone was killed is a helpful thing to do, because it can point us to possible suspects.

You just jumped straight to my FoS list with this set of comments.

Speculation on the nightkill is nigh universally WIFOM, simply because scum will play mind games with the people that think that way.

FoS:m4yhem

I had a feeling something like that was going to happen with the case on crywolf, a darned-good feeling. Sigh...

Please expand on this.

crywolf has been giving off newbie tells all game (hello OMGUS, lack of explanations, etc). It's part of the reason I didn't vote her during day 1. The none-too-subtle call to the cop and tells mentioned by other players have also occurred. The doc claim is more believable to me at the moment.

Let's Lynch Darox. It's not like it's out of nowhere, he was nearly lynched yesterday and for good reason. He's only gotten scummier since then. If everyone who reads the thread votes for Darox, we could get him strung up by deadline.

Except you're here bandwagonning in a hurry off a claimed doc to another popular candidate. I smell a rat.

How many of you were born and raised in the Neighborhood?

Of course... Someone's rolefishing...

[pickemgenius]

#301 by fhq the last line is sketchy.

funny little FHQ/DAROX argument

#306 was alot of almost nothing really...

Dislike Oman a shitload for directing the Lowell lynch...

#312 last half of crys post is meh.

#313 by Oman is lol and setting up another potential lynch.

wtf with bionics post #316

#330 by OMAN second snipit is BS. I've been a cop before and softclaimed an innocent on somebody before. not that hard.

#335 is a good post made by dead Lowell.

#337 I approve of bionics metaing of Lowell

#343(darox) was a meh hammer post. Lack of confidence and just meh.

#366(oman) meh.

#370 (bionic) possible bad logic.

#372 bionic hops on Elias all of a sudden.

Bionics game play is overhauled for D2. So gar so good.

#383 is Darox adding p much nothing at all.

#387 is Tony setting up Elias in case he needs to vote for him later on.

#394 (oman) is lol and so true.

#399 (bionic) is kinda weird.

#403 is a decent vote actually. (darox)

#411 (oman) disagree with his Lowell hate.

#427 (tony) last part is lol.

Dig #428 by Yth.

#460 is decent by Darox

#476 by Darox is a badass post.

#478 by Tony is shit.

Darox is a total total badass in his conversation with Tony. its like. DAROXOWNAGE.

#502 is more Oman just posting to make himself look in the game.

#532 (rash) is a goof mostly due to lack of reading game.

#534 is a good espons to rash by YTH

#540 is heh. (cry)

FHQ seems to be playing a little differently Day 2. hmm

<3 OMan drunk posting #554

#569 (bionic) is a good look at the voting patterns, and personal opinion.

#576 dislike Too Little Too Late viewpoint by FHQ, one used by someone to push for the LOWELL lynch. hmm

#579 (cry) dislike response. (mostly latter part of it)

#581 (cry) is poor at best.

#583 is Tony looking for a wagon that isn't him that he feels could pick up steam!

#584 :goodposting: (oman)

#594 by M4yhem doesnt seem like enough info for reading eight pages.

#597 (FHQ) is a good post to analyze. something weird about it.

#637 <3 (cry)

So in all.

I would say after reading this game. That the only person I am sure of being scum is TONY.

I would actually still put CRYWOLF at #2 because doc is a fairly safe claim for scum to make, but not the lynch for today.

I would put Elias/M4yhem and FHQ tied for 3rd.




P.S. I'm a way better player replacing into games than starting them out fresh.

[Ythill]

Quick note.... Bus Driver was the Flavor, Lowell was actually a townie.

Yeah. Brain-fart.

Make your crucial points more clear.

Um... read better?

I think my willingness to answer questions is good enough, you don't need to critique my writing.

How did players (who found wolf to be somewhat scummy) that joined the Lowell wagon make wolf look scummier?
How does wolf (while having her actions downplayed) having been an alternative to Lowell make wolf look scummier?
How did "suspicious" players choosing to lynch Lowell over wolf make wolf look scummier?

All of these actions have the possibility of ulterior motives from anyone who knew Lowell was town and wolf is scum. We know that a few players did know wolf's alignment and Lowell's in those instances. Therefore it seems supsicious to me that so many individuals treated her that way. Some were certainly mistaken townies. Some were most likely coniving scum.

It's hard to tell who was who without a card flip, but the general suggestion seems to be that wolf is scum.

Your "sheer number" of "scum" tells suggests your criteria isn't strong enough.

You want certain proof that just isn't possible in the game of mafia. When someone makes a few moves that seem scummy, I'm a lot more willing to buy the explanations. When they have a convenient townie reasoning for 100 different things that seem like scum behavior to me? Those excuses start to wear thin.

Not that wolf has raised such excuses. You're the only one defending her.

How many of you were born and raised in the Neighborhood?

Of course... Someone's rolefishing...

Whatever. If bionic is right that all townies are from the Neighborhood, then my question puts the scum in a tough spot. If they tell the truth, they risk being easily identified after we lynch one of them. If they lie, wolf is suddenly obvscum. It's a win-win for town...

if

bionic is right.

I think it's a great question. And I wonder why you avoided it rather than answering it.

[bionicchop2]

Oh, sure. I'm the Piano Teacher, and because I tortured you all as kids by forcing you to play scales and stuff, you have an irrational hatred of me and will find me guilty even though I'm not.

If we look at this - we all were tortured by Iam as kids - implying all of the townies have been here since they were children. I may be reading too much into this, but it seems like some doctor who comes from the big city would not have grown up here and have any opinion of the Piano Teacher.

[Ythill]

And the fact that user, a non-vanilla townie, was from the town kind of flies in the face of Rash's accusation that I was role fishing.

So c'mon everybody, answer my question. Is your role from the Neighborhood or not?

[fhqwhgads]

Just checking in. Will post either later today (ideally) or tomorrow.