Mini 671 - Dwarf Fortress - Game Over!

[Pesco47]

As far as I can remember right now (without rereading), Tim hardly answers any of the questions put his way.

I asked why Tim had a grudge against Roffman: unanswered
KoC asked for some explanation just above: unanswered
Roffman's role fishing: refused to answer, at least some reason was given.

If you intuitively think I'm scum, then something must have triggered that reaction in your subconscious. We'd like to know what it is.

[roffman]

I'm so intent on fishing on the particular role of cook. I have information that means it would be a relative safe claim for scum, and want to check that you aren't scum. The absolute worst case scenario is that we confirm each other, and town lynches us anyway to confirm the other. Then scum has to waste a night kill going through doctors/hiders/role blockers/trackers or have a confirmed town alive. Best case is that your claim conflicts with mine, and we lynch you cause your scum.

[Tuberkulos]

How do we know that you'll tell us the truth, roffman, about your own role?

[Timeater]

Then scum has to waste a night kill going through doctors/hiders/role blockers/trackers or have a confirmed town alive

You fool, thats exactly what WE DONT WANT.

As far as I can remember right now (without rereading), Tim hardly answers any of the questions put his way.

I asked why Tim had a grudge against Roffman: unanswered
KoC asked for some explanation just above: unanswered
Roffman's role fishing: refused to answer, at least some reason was given.

If you intuitively think I'm scum, then something must have triggered that reaction in your subconscious. We'd like to know what it is.

Lol, you're so condescending. I think that might have something to do with it. Listen, I really dont feel like heavily investing in every post in this game. I just dont want to play that way in this game. I'm currently playing a few other games where I am playing that role and I just dont want to put up with it here because a few people lack initiative. As for this apparent grudge claim you've invented, I have no grudge - just irritation and suspicion for him doing scummy things (eg "you're scum because you should be reading the thread" and "tell me your role bla bla role fishing". And if you actually read my recent posts, I address KoC directly and answer his post. You really arent helping yourself Pesco by making such a weak attack post. You'll have to do better than that.

[roffman]

How do we know that you'll tell us the truth, roffman, about your own role?

You don't. The fact is that once Timeater has fully claimed, i'm more than happy to die to confirm him as town or scum.

@Timeater: If you really are a cook, then you would want to be night killed. Also, if scum only have one main target, it makes protective roles so much easier to target the right person.

[Timeater]

I already know what you're getting at, and the fact of the matter is I dont want to do it, scum already probably could infer enough of what is going on here to figure out what you're talking about. I dont want any townies to be nightkilled. Who's to say we dont have an SK or Jester or some other type of role that the town would benefit from if killed? Quit being so dense and realize that if I just came out and said what you wanted me to, that would make a bunch of other people targets. I will not debate this further with you. You are not helping the town.

[Tuberkulos]

that would make a bunch of other people targets

And also increases the chance that an SK or Jester is killed. But you know my standing on early claims.

[roffman]

And also creates a confirmed townie or two, which makes the game significantly easier to win.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I'm not mourning Cyberbob at all. In fact, I'm glad he's gone

You are glad a pro-town is dead?

Vote Timeater

[roffman]

However, i'm starting to believe your claim, though we both have differing views on how you should play it in this situation.

(ps, sorry for the double post)

[Tuberkulos]

I'm not mourning Cyberbob at all. In fact, I'm glad he's gone

I dont want any townies to be nightkilled

Explain, please?

[sekinj]

I do not like Time's play at all. I will be the first to admit it may just be personality differences, but it is a good chance that many of the people he is talking to, calling dense, dodging questions from are town. I'm not 100% convinced Time is scum, but I have to be honest and admit that regardless the game woudl be better without him. We don't need town OR scum players that are detremental to the town. Time's play has been damaging all along. If Bob had not been NK'd Time would no doubt be leading the lynch against him. Time's playstyle and scumdar (or lack thereof) are not going to help us this game

vote: Timeater

If you need proof of Time's irrational and lashing out behavior, just watch how he reacts to this post.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Yes Knight, I really was expecting Bob to be scum. I thoroughly believed it. The fact that he is now dead leads me to believe someone is trying to exploit our "scuffle" and exploit my own animosity towards him. Pesco seems to be trying to do that, and was quick to try to exploit it after the scuffle happened. I dont really see how its such a "huge jump". Why would the scum kill bob for anything but this reason?

Massive WIFOM, that's why.

Getting on the defensive before even countering an offensive - I dont see whats wrong with that -

it shoots down any scum arguement it happens.

Its just good forsight on my part. I'm scumhunting and trying to figure out who/why someone would do that, and Pesco seems to be the one driving that line of thought.

This only confirms for me that you were trying to WIFOM on the Cyberbob NK to get anyone who attacked you for a needless pre-emptive defence lynched.

I realize I'm L-3 so I'll save the town time and trouble by claiming now, giving us a chance to focus on Bob and other likely candidates.

I'm Minkot Custinthrith, a cook. I'm a good guy who recently came to "Osvalanthez". I'm town and I'm not apart of the danger

It seems odd to me that his wording "not a part of the danger" matches pretty closely to the lynch message. Also - L-3 is a terrible point to claim at. L-1, yes. -3 is way too soon, and reads like panicky scum.

I will not debate this further with you. You are not helping the town.

Refusing to debate a point = scummy, indicative that scum has no way to counter a good argument. Claiming someone is "not helping the town" = typical scum-play to indict someone else for anti-townness with no real evidence.

You really arent helping yourself Pesco by making such a weak attack post. You'll have to do better than that.

Pesco's post you referred to here wasn't an attack post, it was asking for reasoning as to why you thought s/he was scum so intuitively when you had failed to answer many other peoples questions fully, including my own. Blatant misrep, attempting to make it look as if Pesco was jumping on a wagon to push for your lynch.

More Timeater votes plz. Kthnxbai.

[Pesco47]

And really - when have you needed full genuine proof to lynch someone? Are you saying its impossible to make a case against you without full proof? Are you saying that gut feeling and intuition are irrelevant? You'll be hard-pressed to find cases in mafia of absolute proof. Proof is not the basis of accusation.

Vote: Pesco

Pesco rubs me the wrong way and pings my scumdar, so he gets my vote - not much more to it than that. I dont really feel like being the convincer or town attack dog this game. I'm content to lay back and let iLord, Ramus or whoever do that in this one. I've really only got a problem with you and Pesco at the moment. Lashing out or focusing my efforts?

Lol, you're so condescending. I think that might have something to do with it. Listen, I really dont feel like heavily investing in every post in this game. I just dont want to play that way in this game. I'm currently playing a few other games where I am playing that role and I just dont want to put up with it here because a few people lack initiative.

We can't ever get absolute certainty in lynches before the flip, but that doesn't mean you can just throw reason out the window. I have my share of gut and intuition that I use, and to me, that kind of stuff is way too meta dependent to go applying in games on a big forum like mafiascum.

'Proof is not the basis of accusation' you say, are you confused or something? If someone has proof, they can make a solid accusation. If they have no proof, their case gets shot down.

You want to stick a vote this far into the game, people want to hear the reasons behind it. Here, you're just voting with no reasons given and further state that you don't feel like putting in any effort, let some other players do all the work.

Don't like my attitude? That's quite some irony coming from you. I'm willing to bet that there's more than a lynching majority that feels rather annoyed at how you're playing this game right now, be they town or scum.


Now for some more constructive discussion:

As for this apparent grudge claim you've invented, I have no grudge - just irritation and suspicion for him

[Roffman]

doing scummy things (eg "you're scum because you should be reading the thread" and "tell me your role bla bla role fishing".

I find it strange for you to have found Roffman irritating and suspicious before the game even got serious (i.e. during random voting).

I'm so intent on fishing on the particular role of cook. I have information that means it would be a relative safe claim for scum, and want to check that you aren't scum. The absolute worst case scenario is that we confirm each other, and town lynches us anyway to confirm the other. Then scum has to waste a night kill going through doctors/hiders/role blockers/trackers or have a confirmed town alive. Best case is that your claim conflicts with mine, and we lynch you cause your scum.

This one smells like WIFOM loaded crap. Reading into it as a bluff, I'd say that if Roffman is scum, he's got a safe-claim as a cook and hence the need to fish. This conclusion is a bit contradictory to the exchange between Roffman and Tim, where it seems that both of them do know what a cook does. In that case, I'm still a bit uncomfortable with accepting that 2 players can have the same role and be on the same side.

If it weren't for this, I'd have voted Tim again in agreeance with Sekinj. Roffman is doing more IioA compared to Tim's plain anti-town behaviour.

Vote Roffman

[Tuberkulos]

i'm more than happy to die to confirm him as town or scum.

How "townish" of you... Lynching a townie just to confirm another townie isn't very productive in my opinion.

[Timeater]

I'm 80% sure Roffman isn't scum at this point.

@ Knight: What?

If you bothered reading any of the thread up to this point, you'll know Cyberbob personally attacked me a few times. Thats why I glad he's gone - because he was an asshole. That should also answer you, Tuber.

Your reasons for your vote on me are terribad to say the least:

Massive WIFOM, that's why.

Grow up already. WIFOM does not interdict logic and common sense.

This only confirms for me that you were trying to WIFOM on the Cyberbob NK to get anyone who attacked you for a needless pre-emptive defence lynched.

How were my points on the Cyberbob lynch not valid? Please, explain that.

It seems odd to me that his wording "not a part of the danger" matches pretty closely to the lynch message. Also - L-3 is a terrible point to claim at. L-1, yes. -3 is way too soon, and reads like panicky scum.

It was SO OBVIOUS I WAS ABOUT TO BE WAGONED. MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE WAITED BUT DOES IT REALLY MATTER AT THIS POINT?

Refusing to debate a point = scummy, indicative that scum has no way to counter a good argument. Claiming someone is "not helping the town" = typical scum-play to indict someone else for anti-townness with no real evidence.

You mean refusing to state what my role is? You either A: have no idea whats going between Roffman and I, or B: You do have an idea of whats going on between us and you want to exploit it.

Pesco's post you referred to here wasn't an attack post, it was asking for reasoning as to why you thought s/he was scum so intuitively when you had failed to answer many other peoples questions fully, including my own. Blatant misrep, attempting to make it look as if Pesco was jumping on a wagon to push for your lynch.

More Timeater votes plz. Kthnxbai.

Sure it was an attack post. When you question someone's motives and say I haven't answered questions when I clearly have, thats an attack post.

I'm not really sure what to think of KoC. Apart of me thinks he put these horrible reasons together out of arrogance to try for an easy townie lynch. I'm leaning towards him.

Unvote

for now.

@Pesco - as for me "finding Roffman suspicious before the game got started" I was just messing around. Its odd that this has turned into what it is so far.

You want to stick a vote this far into the game, people want to hear the reasons behind it. Here, you're just voting with no reasons given and further state that you don't feel like putting in any effort, let some other players do all the work.

Yes, thats right. I tire of playing alpha townie almost every other game I play.

Sekinj, your vote reeks of opportunism. Not only do you agree with KoC's ludicrous reasoning, you go on to say my play has been "damaging" without stating any incidences where this has been the case. Meta evidence against Sekinj: Not only is she a horrible player, she might be the town doctor and lynch herself out of hysteria:http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... &start=450

[Knight of Cydonia]

Right, because you've never personally attacked Cyberbob this game either.
You don't feel like putting in the effort to reason your vote? With all due respect, fuck off, then.

I'm 80% sure Roffman isn't scum at this point.

Unvote for now.

Wow, that was the quickest de-OMGUS I've seen in a while.
Oh, and that meta evidence is WIFOM

and

a poor representation of sekinj in general. Quoting 1 game does not equal a comprehensive indication of behaviour.

[sekinj]

@time: how did I know you would bring that up as soon as I suspected you? however, I'm not goign to discuss an ongoing game. for all you know there were/are other things going on in that game. Many other players here are either in other games with me or have played with me before so they can judge my "hysteria" for themselves.

[sekinj]

Need I even re-quote myself?

If you need proof of Time's irrational and lashing out behavior, just watch how he reacts to this post.

[Timeater]

I love how KoC completely ignores my points and goes for the throat with a personal attack also spewing all the WIFOMs and OMGUSs he can because he seems to think that that actually means something. People who continually quote the wiki and game abbreviations are the lazy ones. Think outside your little abbreviated box.

Sekinj - yes, you were asking for it. If it turns out you were actually scum in that game and there are some extinuating circumstances, I will gladly take back what I've implied about you.

[Ramus]

Catching up... gah it sucks to miss out on Mafia for a day.


Anyway, at present, everyone is beating up on Tim and Tim getting paranoid. roffman and Tim seem to be a mason pair, scum pair, or just very trusting of each other for some reason.

On to the questions:

@Tim - Why was it good for the town to lose cyberbob? Also, why did you immediately assume scum were framing you? And what about Pesco rubs you the wrong way?

@Roff - How does your death prove Tim innocent? More so, how do you truly know he's innocent?

@sekinj - Why do I always see a pig nose when I look at your avatar instead of a cat? Also, I know this is redundant, but why iLord? And do you really believing lynching a townie is good for the game if said townie being useless or worse?

That's about it for now, I don't have much else to ask. Current suspicions are on roffman and timeater for their weird teaming up thing that seems to have no real reason as to why it was formed.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Erm... hate to knock you off your marlbe pedestal, me lawd, but those abbreviations do mean something. That what an abbreviation is. Stop trying to mis-rep me as some kind of idiot, whilst acting all high and mighty up there on the hypocrite throne.

[sekinj]

@sekinj - Why do I always see a pig nose when I look at your avatar instead of a cat? Also, I know this is redundant, but why iLord? And do you really believing lynching a townie is good for the game if said townie being useless or worse?

I'm for lynching anyone who is helping scum, even if their role PM says, "town". I beleive time's current antics are more help to the scum than the town.

and ahhh... well, my avatar is designed so that when people look at it the first thing they see is their deepest darkest fear, and then it resolves into my fluffy baby kitty cat... I guess you are scared of piggies...

[Ramus]

and ahhh... well, my avatar is designed so that when people look at it the first thing they see is their deepest darkest fear, and then it resolves into my fluffy baby kitty cat... I guess you are scared of piggies...

Not really? Other than the fact that pigs are big and smelly, I have nothing against them. Bacon is good after all. <3

Anyway, the lynching townie argument is valid, though a bit reckless and blood thirsty. Though I still need why you went after iLord.

[sekinj]

@Ramus: and... I already explained my suspicion on IL... don't ask me to spell choreographed again