Mafia 86 - mafia.gif - Game Over!

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

In short: yes and yes.

Care to back that up? I bet you for every one lurking scum you can find, I can find two lurking town.

[armlx]

Lurking is definitely not a scum tell unless:

A) The person is lurking specifically in that game. Easily checked by looking at their posts on site.

B) The person is "active lurking".

[populartajo]

Armlx, is my vanilla claim a scumtell? Is it my disagreement in Stef's situation?

[armlx]

Armlx, is my vanilla claim a scumtell? Is it my disagreement in Stef's situation?

Your vanilla claim is a scum tell. As a pro-town vanilla, you have no reason to claim at that point (some people say ever even).

Its not your disagreement in Stef's situation, its the invalid defense that you at first waffled on even having stated.

[Erratus Apathos]

So, uhh...how exactly does

claiming vanilla

alleviate boredom?

[BlakAdder]

Sorry I've been gone for so long. Anyway, everything I wanted to say has been pretty much covered at this point. I want to vote Tajo and Stef, but I'm going to wait for a vote count, so I don't accidentally hammer prematurely. So, in the mean time:

HOS: populartajo and Stef

.

[Seraphim]

Though I haven't done much in this game, it's mostly because big games scare me. I'd like a vote count before I start posting actively; I don't want to, like BlakAdder, hammer someone prematurely.

[armlx]

24 alive. 13 to lynch.

WE ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO A HAMMER.

[Dead Rikimaru]

Sorry I had to be away for some days due to work problems.
Will make a new votecount now.

[Dead Rikimaru]

Aunt Flora's Votecount

populartajo

(5): Empking, TheSweatpantsNinja, Erratus Apathos, Tarhalindur, massive

Stef

(3): ShadowGirl, ooba, armlx

curiouskarmadog

(2): Ku_F, Stef

ShadowGirl

(2): Seraphim, Rush

Skitzer

(2): BlakAdder, Cybele

Cybele

(1): curiouskarmadog

ooba

(1): Jebus

TheSweatpantsNinja

(1): Haschel Cedricson

Seraphim

(1): Sierra

Jebus

(1): GhostWriter

armlx

(1): Electra

Sierra

(1): populartajo

Not voting

(3): skitzer, DynamoXI, sekinj

Deadline is on

October 27

Needed for a lynch: 13 votes
If by deadline no one has 13 votes the player with more votes is lynched
If two players share the top score of votes lynch is decided by

duel

IMPORTANT!

Lots of votes and unvotes to note, if I made any mistake please let me know.
Thanks for keeping the game active.
Prods, if needed, will go tomorrow after I finally get some sleep.
DR

[armlx]

L-8.

8 votes. That's more then majority in a mini D1.

No where near close.

[Stef]

I notice that Stef's posting doesn't look newbish at all. Stef, if you don't mind me asking: how much experience do you have with mafia on other forums?

I have no experience outside MS. As to the posting that doesn't seem newbish at all.. what posting are you reffering to since the ones in this topic haven't been .. full of content.

[quote="BlakAdder] I want to vote Tajo and Stef [/quote]
Care to bring some reasons? Not sure how it helps the town to just jump the wagon without providing your own opinion.

Since now i got enough time to post more than a three word reply i will answer a few "cases" against me:

omg, you dont like me asking questions? ... without asking questions at all, how do you plan on scum hunting?

It was a JOKE. Of course i like people asking questions and i ask questions as well since questioning can only help the town since it brings more discussion and more content to the game. Not accepting the presumption that it was a joke is weird considering the alternative would make me an idiot inside or outside the game.

CKD, I think you're taking Stef's vote too seriously. :/

Altho i agree with you, there's no fault in a suspicion if asks questions and tries to actually find out if a player is scum or not instead of just making a weak case and voting without being sure of anything.

Why do you have a problem with questions? Maybe it's because you're scum and you realize that scumhunting is bad for you?

I already answered you when i answered ckd. Quoted you so you don't feel left out.

Then cybele says "Asking questions is the best thing we have for scumhunting, followed by analyzing the answers for scumminess."

Still no better/new arguments except the joke i made. 3 ppl commented, 1 voted so far. My ironic response was not cracking under pressure since i had one vote on me with little reason since there is none. It was me being amused because i was wondering, before i joined this game, where the jokes become serious and how cases and long analysis start forming out of thin air. When i noticed it comes from making nonsense accusations against posts in the joke phase that MIGHT be true. The person defends or not and that gives a lead, etc. Nice process.

That ironic post wasn't my defense since i didn't have time to even read all the replies. This post is. Anyway.. it caused the following reactions:

What you are basically saying is your actions are too scummy for you too be scum

I answered this already but i'll do it again. I am not saying that my actions are too scummy for me to be scum because my joke wasn't scummy since it was a joke and thinking i actually meant that questions shouldn't be asked is a proof of stupidity.

Plus although you use a lot of smileys, this is the first time you've used a 'lol' smiley in all your games on MS till now ..

Either you are kidding or you're stretching it badly. If that's what you're gonna use for scumtell then i got nothing more to say. Speechless.

The WIFOM statement followed by a deviation from your normal posting practice leads me to ..

Leads you to a vote. I still don't understand what WIFOM means. However the deviation from my normal posting practice.. Are we talking about the 2 posts ( besides the one we're talking about ) that had one phrase in them and were jokes in the joke phase or about my other games? Meta is useful but stretching it to searching my other topics for jokes also makes assumptions about my role in the other games so you either are the best analiser i've ever seen or your argument isn't a good one.

Ooba having meta to back this up wins. ...Actually, the change in smileys is a pretty strong tell.

Meta of joking and smiles is a STRONG tell? Can you please explain how it is a strong tell? I wish both you and ooba answer this since you two use this argument.

I won't quote PT because there would be too much to quote and little to say. Your defending me is weird. I don't need to be defended. I'd rather have you bringing up some helpful points for the game like going on suspicions, asking questions and making cases instead of bringing the newbie card into the game to defend me. I don't like it one bit.

But I don't like post 140. You're giving him an excuse to keep posting like that.

I don't need a reason to keep posting like that. My posting style is not influenced by being allowed or encouraged to post in a certain way.

Being uncomfortable due to being out of the majority and doing unusual, nervous things, especially when under light pressure.

I was out of the majority because i was uncomfortable? Where was i uncomfortable? Being amused doesn't mean i feel uncomfortable. It means i feel amused. This is overdoing it. According to you i feel uncomfortable and nervous from the pressure put on me. I don't feel any of those things and i actually did nothing to suggest i do.

I feel i said enough in my defense.

Ooba: continues to go only after me even if he has so little to go with. That tells me he either doesn't have any other leads on any1 else or he's trying to get more people to vote for a person who posted something that in some people's eyes is a scumtell. You haven't bothered to look at other players as well. What are your 3 top suspects and what are your arguments against them?

Tarhalindur: I commented your suspicion on me but what i do find interesting is that you change your primary targets from ( in this order ): PT, Sierra, Me and "He's down to third on my scumdar right now, mainly because I feel tajo and Sierra are currently higher priorities." TO: "Empking is nowhere near as scummy as tajo or Stef are right now"
I see a sudden change that you don't explain. Can you please do so now?
Also, if you have to vote between armlx and ooba who would you vote for?

Empking, Elektra, BlakAdder, Jebus, Rush: More activity and/or content from you guys! What do you think about the latest developments in the game? What are your 3 top suspects and why?

I will make a suspect list myself later on today.

[Tarhalindur]

Regarding my vanilla claim.
This isnt WIFOM. Its common sense. If I were scum, why would I bring unnecessary attention to myself with that claim?

Nice direct contradiction there. (Are you a politician by any chance?)

I WAS BORED. I hate the random stage. I wanted discussion. Yes, its antitown but it doesnt suggest allignment in the context it was used : random stage. Thats why its null.

I'm not going to ignore scummy play just because it occurs during the random stage, and if you are town and knew your claim was anti-town

you should never have made the claim in the first place

.

I dont have problems when people attack me but please, think before you post.

Did you mean to say "I don't have a problem with people attacking me unless they attack me for reasons I consider stupid"? Because if you didn't, that looks like another direct contradiction to me. (It's also rather scummy even if that was what you were trying to say, since it's not hard to take the reducto ad absurdum argument by noting that you could theoretically find *any* reason for attacking you to be stupid...)

Regarding Stef's case.
The only thing Im saying is that since he's a newbie then he's more prone to make scumtells. I NEVER SAID HE WASNT SCUM. What worries me is that some experienced players think that scumtells are infalible and that they are the ultimate truth and that if I dont agree with them that makes me OBVIOUS scum.
This is the logic used : Stef could be scum, Tajo says he could be a newbie, then Tajo is his scumpartner. WTF??!!
I even said that its like the third time that I see "experienced ones" lynching a newbie townie for being a bag of scumtells. Stef could be scum but ITS TOO EARLY to be so sure about that.

Populartajo, you don't seem to understand that just because you aren't saying that someone isn't scum doesn't mean you're not defending them. In fact, I would find it less scummy if that was what you were saying, since then you would be taking a stand on Stef's behavior.

Defense is, at its core, nothing more than working to derail a wagon; note that there are many ways to do so (show how the arguments being used are wrong, show that the behavior that drew the wagon is excusable, try to stall out the wagon until people lose interest, try to redirect the wagon, etc.). I wouldn't find your defense of Stef nearly so scummy if not for the fact that a) you are defending another player (a weak scumtell in my books), and b) you are denying the fact that you are defending another player.

Thar and Armlx are taking this argument further than Id like.

1) Who gave you the right to say where an argument should stop?
2) For the sake of argument, so what if I am blowing the argument out of proportion? In case you hadn't figured it out, blowing minor events out of proportion is how I prefer to get out of the random stage - the major events grow out of that.
3) It's Tar, not Thar. Will you please get the abbreviation right?

Now look for a better target. Ill analyse reactions later. Kthxbay.

1) I don't appreciate being told what to do, especially when I find the reasons for the order flawed and ESPECIALLY in a Mafia game.
2) Wagons don't just magically disappear because you say they should.
3) Trying to get a wagon to magically disappear by saying it should is a scumtell in my book.
4) If I felt there was a player in the game more likely to be scum than you,

I would be voting that player.

Savvy?

[Ku_F]

Wait a moment. Skitzer, you are watching me due to my [sarcasm] thingy?
Or is it with all my tags like that? Because I only used the [sarcasm] once. And that was regarding the smiley attack. And why do you call them fake?
Next you also say that I have posted little, while there are others wo have posted less than me.

But what notices me the most is the context in your biggest post. You mention many players, but the only ones that you really address are me, armlx and Tar. All the others are off-topic. By the look of that post, it seems a good one due to all the players you mention and due to it's length, but when you read it, it's almost nothing.

I'll give more comments later when I'm back from school

[BlakAdder]

@Stef: I already mentioned, everything that I think has already been said. But, overall, populartajo's vote on Sierra and bad defense of you are the reason he's scummy. Personally, you would not be that suspicious yourself if he had not tried to rush to your defense.
So,

vote: populartajo

. Since your scumminess relies on the assumption that you and tajo are partners, you'll be partially cleared if tajo flips town.

[armlx]

I was out of the majority because i was uncomfortable? Where was i uncomfortable? Being amused doesn't mean i feel uncomfortable. It means i feel amused. This is overdoing it. According to you i feel uncomfortable and nervous from the pressure put on me. I don't feel any of those things and i actually did nothing to suggest i do.

No, that part of the post is explaining theory more so then in game events. Its talking about how people psycologically react to being scum in a given game.

[sekinj]

@PT: you have yet to address my post 150. Please explain your flip-flopping.

[Cybele]

Damn. Lots of rereading to do... I'll post my thoughts this afternoon, as I have to leave for class in 15 minutes.

[Empking]

@Stef: I already mentioned, everything that I think has already been said. But, overall, populartajo's vote on Sierra and bad defense of you are the reason he's scummy. Personally, you would not be that suspicious yourself if he had not tried to rush to your defense.
So,

vote: populartajo

. Since your scumminess relies on the assumption that you and tajo are partners, you'll be partially cleared if tajo flips town.

Partially cleared?
I can see how you'd say he's no scummier than anyone else but how would bhe be partially cleared?

[armlx]

What Emp said. Both are independently scummy, but their actions become much more so if either flips scum.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Yeah, I don't get that. Blakadder's strange unwillingness to vote plus this bumps him to second on my list.

[BlakAdder]

@Stef: I already mentioned, everything that I think has already been said. But, overall, populartajo's vote on Sierra and bad defense of you are the reason he's scummy. Personally, you would not be that suspicious yourself if he had not tried to rush to your defense.
So,

vote: populartajo

. Since your scumminess relies on the assumption that you and tajo are partners, you'll be partially cleared if tajo flips town.

Partially cleared?
I can see how you'd say he's no scummier than anyone else but how would bhe be partially cleared?

I only say partially cleared because I never totally clear anyone. That, and I have no idea what he is going to do later in the game.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

You misunderstand the question, I think. How would he be at all cleared?

[ooba]

Ooba: continues to go only after me even if he has so little to go with. That tells me he either doesn't have any other leads on any1 else or he's trying to get more people to vote for a person who posted something that in some people's eyes is a scumtell. You haven't bothered to look at other players as well. What are your 3 top suspects and what are your arguments against them?

I do not work in the top 3 scum list way.

I'll give you a analogy to explain why I think the smiley change was important

There's a party in your house and suddenly the light goes off. A few seconds later they come back on , but you find someone's necklace missing. (I know its cliched, forgive me) Out of the blue, you ask your friend 'Did you take it?'. He says no but does a wavy movement with his hand which you've never seen him do before.

Note the wavy movement isn't scummy in itself but the context makes it so. So its not just the use of a new smiley but that combined with the WIFOM statement you made.

[BlakAdder]

You misunderstand the question, I think. How would he be at all cleared?

Because the only reason I am suspicious of him is because of the potential connection to tajo. If tajo flips town, then that is gone.