In post 122, The Coalition wrote:Gamma's scumgame has actually evolved a lot in the past couple months
what is this based on because frankly having just seen it he was obvscum in Situation Room just a month ago, I doubt that you believe this or that it's based on any good evidence
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"
In post 121, GuiltyLion wrote:As I said, I'd like you to address which of my reads you think was manufactured from a starting conclusion, and whether you disagree with anyone in my coalition besides me.
Are you going to answer this or are you dodging it because you can't?
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"
so Shelby is a top townread despite tunneling another top townread Vulture?
and you are not townreading Iverson? Would you oppose a coalition with him in it?
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"
look GL, you basically are confscum to me based on the way you interacted with my slot. Unless you show some genuine thought AND I feel uneasy about finding 4 people outside of you, I'm just going to ignore you.
Iverson wrote:Implosion is oldschool and sees scum focus on mech like clockwork and he should be shot on sight.
This is, not true? I generally don't consider almost anything like "focusing on mech" to be alignment-indicative outside of context, and I think the context of the tone in which Vulture did it is townish.
Scum might focus on mechanics sometimes but it was page three and and Vulture had already said they were going to drop it at that point.
Like,
Iverson wrote:Implosion's read is literally "they seem nice enough talking about mech"
This is a drastic mischaracterization. In fact I pointed out the second line of 61 which is specifically not being like, especially "nice". The "scorched earth" rhetoric is something I think scum would be reticent to say because scum naturally will want to get into the coalition (so as to not automatically lose) and would probably have an instinct to not want to literally burn it down afterward.
In post 133, The Coalition wrote:look GL, you basically are confscum to me based on the way you interacted with my slot. Unless you show some genuine thought AND I feel uneasy about finding 4 people outside of you, I'm just going to ignore you.
I still doubt that you genuinely believe that I'm "confscum" for calling three of your early game posts showy and LAMISTy, and I see you left yourself a nice little backdoor here, but if we can find two more mutual townreads and I feel good about the group of 5 then I can be fine with a Coalition that doesn't have either of us in it. I hope you can too, because the "veto coalitions with them in it" feeling is currently very mutual
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"
the coalition's read on me is really interesting because I'm not sure if that kind of reasoning is something I'm bad at faking as scum; I'd like to think it isn't, but it might be.
...incredibly once again, I typed this sentence before seeing 135
I think i'm kind of bad at scum tbh. I sort of focus on mimicing town thought in general, or at least my overall approach historically has been to try to do things that I think I'd be doing as town/read people based on the reads I think I'd be getting on them. Since it's most of what I focus on in principle I'm better at it than I am at other aspects of scum play. I don't think I'm an especially good scum player though.
I think Iverson's push on implosion is genuine but I'm getting townvibes from implo here, whenever I've seen him as scum he comes off as more stiff/robotic to me. I also don't think that Coalition-implosion is S-S
HEAL: implosion
one more to go!
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"
Iverson wrote:Implosion is oldschool and sees scum focus on mech like clockwork and he should be shot on sight.
This is, not true? I generally don't consider almost anything like "focusing on mech" to be alignment-indicative outside of context, and I think the context of the tone in which Vulture did it is townish.
Scum might focus on mechanics sometimes but it was page three and and Vulture had already said they were going to drop it at that point.
Like,
Iverson wrote:Implosion's read is literally "they seem nice enough talking about mech"
This is a drastic mischaracterization. In fact I pointed out the second line of 61 which is specifically not being like, especially "nice". The "scorched earth" rhetoric is something I think scum would be reticent to say because scum naturally will want to get into the coalition (so as to not automatically lose) and would probably have an instinct to not want to literally burn it down afterward.
This is a lot of words to say "it's the way they discussed mech", ie. tonal, with the only concrete thing to point to (voting in a false coalition) relaying the most blatant optimal play as though the slot is inhabited by a 3rd grader.
Bonus: Why do you think my read will flip? You have never played with me as town, and I tunneled you both games I was scum across multiple days (Once you were my partner, once you were town)
In post 122, The Coalition wrote:Gamma's scumgame has actually evolved a lot in the past couple months, what may have caught them in the past won't catch them anymore. But him pointing this out himself in response to a townread on him is something that I wouldn't assign to his scumrange
My point on Gamma actually utilizes the lessons he learned as scum to hypothesize why he wouldn't defer the start. ie. It is utilizing that evolution, not denying it
Iverson wrote:Bonus: Why do you think my read will flip? You have never played with me as town, and I tunneled you both games I was scum across multiple days (Once you were my partner, once you were town)
Well, odds are pretty good that you're town, and if you're town I think odds are good you'll figure out I'm town.
It's partially because you described your play on this account as aggressive and your push on me feels almost hollow, though not in a particularly scummy way.
this back and forth started because implosion townread Vulture for what sounded to you(Iverson) like fake reasons, yes? What's the benefit to scum!implosion to commit himself to a Vulture townread trajectory? At that point Shelby was calling for votes on Vulture, maybe it'd be possible to keep Vulture out of a coalition with another voice throwing dirt on him, why does scum!implosion instead put himself in the position to fabricate a reachy townread on a slot that wasn't consensus town?
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"
Tackling your question directly: It isn't much of a commitment on Implosion's part, and the benefit is the basic veneer of scum hunting that is expected of you. I don't put much weight on disagreeing with Shelby factoring in to begin with, and it is often useful to voice opposition early for TvT scenarios.
While I think the weight you put on the Shelby push explains the focus on cost/benefit, I think on a larger scale you are putting way too much stock into scum not giving townreads without immediate concrete reason to do so. Early game they generally are just trying to fit in and hunt like everyone else.
Normally I'd agree but I think this setup does discourage early game TMI townreads due to the possibility of autoloss with a correct 5-townblock. I could maybe see scum thinking that handing out key early townreads might buy the towncred needed to get themself into a coalition, but specifically Vulture at that point in particular I'm not sure would have been an attractive slot to TR for towncred.
You do have a point that it wasn't necessarily a strong commitment from Implosion at the time, so I guess we'll see where it goes, but on average I do think people who are more liberal with the townreads early game are going to be more likely town here
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"
![:]](./images/smilies/icon_smiling.png "Cheerful Smile")
"I think I no longer believe in monsters as faces in the floor or feral infants or vampires or whatever. I think at seventeen now I believe the only real monsters might be the type of liar where there's simply no way to tell. The ones who give nothing away"
