Newbie 682 - Mayhem in Umore - Game Over, Scum Win!

[nureins]

@caf

Your post was really interesting and Im wishing to read the rest of opinions.

However, Im not so sure about Seb vs chuck. I can think about other motivations for him to attack chuck and be so dramatic with the "I want chuck to die if Im revealed town". He knows for sure what he is going to be revealed, right ? hehe...

Seb attacked Mirth correctly with the coaching before I expanded this view. But maybe this is part of the Chuck obsession in his words...

[caf19]

For the record, I've been in newbie games where a new player has been scummy and attracted al the attention, got lynched D1 and turned out to be town. So I have considered this possibility, and I'd at least be wary of lynching seb too quickly, without everyone having put down their opinion of him. But in this case I do believe there is actual scum-like behaviour behind the wall of petulance that we originally saw.

If you could, can you show me the link to some of these, it will help understand what and what not to do for future games.

Newbie game 583 is probably the best example, as we lynched scummy noob-townies on both D1 and D2.

[seb456zig]

lol ud think theyd learn but no
and the "Chuck obsession" is based on a feeling i have.
but cant you feel it

[seb456zig]

lol u died night two

[ChuckNorris]

Seb, can you please stop posting things that aren't relevant to the game. post 179 has no relevance to this game. It was just an example of how newbies have acted scummy and turned up town. If you posting somehting in it that relates to this game then it would be relevant but "lol u died night two" has nothing to do with this game!!!

[ChuckNorris]

EBWOP: Post 178 i meant...

[Mirth]

ok. I'm sorry for putting us in a risky position. I was just getting really annoyed with Seb. With all the scummy things he had done, and then he does an OMGUS vote. This angers me as at this stage you shoudn't be doing that kind of things. I think he is trying to distract us from hie scumminess. Yes I do agree that me voting looked a bit scummy btu I'd really had enough of Seb's actions.

@Nur- Please. Do tell me what you find suspicious.

Voting out of anger is never a good thing.

Nur, 164: I actually see no issue with his upgrading FOS's in his analysis. I know that when I miss a bunch, I might do this. If you ever see me do a PBPA in a game I replaced to, I comment as I read along, and usually throw in comments like "if I was voting, I'd be voting for soandso now." Interesting point however about him forgetting you. That escaped my attention.

ahh, back from a good long-WTF.
8 posts. I wouldah expected more, anyway.
@Mirth

For example

seb 78: instead of going on and on about how you're going to die, maybe you could start playing? Because opinions do change, you know. And please don't refer to other people as town. I have already commented on this to Chuck. Sharing town reads is usually bad.

You even mentioned that you said the same thing to Chuck. If this is the only "Coaching" example you have on me, i would like you to stop spamming with the same "I coached seb as well so he is scum" sorta thing. Its very annoying. Anyway, I would like Chuck to be lynched if I turn out innocent. Umm... have a, great day?

It isn't the only example. Um can you please explain your logic? I coached you so you must be scum? Only way I would know this is if I were scum with you. Why do you feel the need to twist my words around? I'm merely pointing out to Nur that Chuck isn't the only person I'm coaching.

Also setting up lynches in advance is almost certainly *NEVER* protown.

Nur: Actually, it is very very very rare from me to outright say that I'm not scum, regardless of whether I'm scum or town. I could be scum. I could not be.

Anyway, I would like Chuck to be lynched if I turn out innocent. Umm... have a, great day?

Is this an OMGUS, feeling. Anyway why me? Why not anyone else who voted you or found you scummy. I'd just like to know.

No, its not. Its based on my own feeling towards you. This is just insurance for me

IF

i do die, its just SPAM for the time being. Why are you being so defensive. You think i am scum, so my message wont mean a thing if i die. Unless you know my innocence and you don't want to be revealed for the scumbag you really are through someones death-wish. Something tells me that Chucky isn't gonna live much longer than me!

Since you're saying he's your prime suspect, give us a case on him please.

Caf 173: good posting, I totally forgot about the lying quote. Had to go back and look. Lying is almost never a protown move, and should not be done in a newbie game.

Seb: I again ask you for a case on Chuck since you are convinced he's scummy.

Mod: can you please prod Cute and Serous if you have't already. Also can we please get a vote count?

[ChuckNorris]

Ok. I really am sorry guys. I won't do it again.

Me forgeting Nur was simply me thinking that Nur wasn't acting scummy. I also agree that I should have kept my eyes open, instead of tunnel vision. But I'm starting now. I'm starting to wonder about Mr Avacado. He isn't really posting much productive. He posted around page five, saying he suspected Mirth and Seb, correct me if I'm wrong but he barely describes why he's suspicious of either.

Also I'm not sure if the Mod is here. I've already posted in the newbie cue to ask where he is and that we need replacements...

[Mirth]

What exactly are you apologizing for?

Also, we do not need replacements. We need prods. The nonposters still have a couple of days before asking for replacements becomes appropriate. The mod also check in less than 48 hours ago. Geez. Patience is a virtue.

[seb456zig]

back from a nice long sleep.
Lets go
I get what mirth is asking of me, but i have two good reasons
1. I don't have enough information
2. i dont realy know what a case is supposed to look like
i suck at doing essays, they take too long. I really hope that cases don't have to be.
im going to go look for some examples of essays, then ill wait for chucky to do something realy scummy. then ill win:)

[seb456zig]

I would have voted you. Believe me when I say I want to vote you, but the Mafia could hammer if I put you at L-1.

@Mirth- I won't. Also do you think putting him at L-1 is justified yet. I was hoping to hear from Serous(or now his replacement?) to see what they think on the subject?

Putting me in L-1 will help us out if the mafia do hammer. I highly doubt that they are dumb enough to actually double-hammer. If you agree to my fairly open strategy I would suggest that only one person help put me on L-1. Or else it would be pretty pointless.

btw, why say that you would vote if i wasn't on so many. If you think im scum, shouldn't you vote. How can my number of voters influence you to decide otherwise?
That q is to everyone.

I want to hear from cute.without.e, and serous before I decide to vote. I honestly think that we should lynch you but as a town we should all decide together if you should be lynched. I don't understand "That Q is to everyone"?

doesn't seem he did that, oh well. It does sound protown until youu don't do what you said you would.
I found this on page five (after he told me to go and look at how avacado-man acted. lol. BURN!!!

[seb456zig]

WAIT A SECOND!

I would have voted you. Believe me when I say I want to vote you, but the Mafia could hammer if I put you at L-1.

@Mirth- I won't. Also do you think putting him at L-1 is justified yet. I was hoping to hear from

Serous(or now his replacement?)

to see what they think on the subject?

why not mention the other inactive players. Sounds very scummy. I could be wrong, these are just some theories I have, but I think it might just be some good hard evidence

[seb456zig]

I want to hear from cute.without.e, and serous before I decide to vote. I honestly think that we should lynch you but as a town we should all decide together if you should be lynched. I don't understand "That Q is to everyone"?

This is where he notices his mistake.
He mentions Cute.Without.E now, but before he only mentioned Serious. Am I the only one noticing these?

[seb456zig]

im going to go look for some examples of

essays

, then ill wait for chucky to do something realy scummy. then ill win:)

ebwop Cases

[Mirth]

first, seb its kind of annoying what you do multiple posts like this. Can you please try to condense everything into one post?

back from a nice long sleep.
Lets go
I get what mirth is asking of me, but i have two good reasons
1. I don't have enough information
2. i dont realy know what a case is supposed to look like
i suck at doing essays, they take too long. I really hope that cases don't have to be.
im going to go look for some examples of essays, then ill wait for chucky to do something realy scummy. then ill win:)

What the frak? you'll wait for him to do something scummy then you'll win. This bothers me a whole hell of a lot. You suspect him already, all I ask is for you to explain why you suspect him. Not wait around.

Sooo your whole case is that he was first going on about Serous and then added Cute? (You use the same quote twice and its really confusing.) What exactly is your point. How/why is this scummy? Don't make us fill in the blanks for you. Explain, please.

[Mr Avacado]

Seb you really need to stop and wait for replies before posting another reply. - sorry in the process of reading through just it is annoying when you post 5 or more replies in a row!

[seb456zig]

okay, my second post is talking about his townish promise he made to wait for Serious and cute.without.e, but he fails to keep his word, and I don't see why a townish person would need to do that.

My third post (using the same quote that I used in my second post, that confused some people, sorry about that). Anyway, he mentioned waiting for inactive players twice, buut the first time he said he would wait for Serious's opinion, then later he mentioned Cuute.Without.E i find this suspitious because if Serious and Chuck were mafia, and chuck seems innocent asking for Serious's help. Then serious will naturally agree with chuck on the vote, then he would have the town convinced, and yadah yadah yadah

POST FOUR is adding on to three.

POST five is juust an ebwop of a typo i made.

I hope this is easier to read than my posts that are a lot like "

FILL IN THE BLANK

"

[Mirth]

Seb you really need to stop and wait for replies before posting another reply. - sorry in the process of reading through just it is annoying when you post 5 or more replies in a row!

Do you have anything you want to add about the current discussion, rather than Seb's posting style.

Seb, thanks for clearing that up. Question for you. Couldn't it also be that if Chuck were scum with Cute, he's be mentioning her less to avoid drawing attention that way?

[massive]

Vote Count

seb456zig (3) » nureins, Mr Avacado, ChuckNorris
ChuckNorris (1) » seb456zig
Serous (1) » cute.without.e

Not voting: Serous, dejkha, Mirth, caf19

Rules for Prodding:

I am willing to prod a player who has not posted in a week. Seeing as how both players have posted within the last week, there will be no prods yet. If you are unimpressed with someone's level of content, you need to deal with that yourselves.

Rules for Replacement:

I am willing to replace a player who has not picked up a prod in three days. If a player picks up their prod and still doesn't post, it's up to the town to deal with them. No, you will not be informed of this, you will just have to use your logic to figure that part out.

Rules for Prodding the Mod:

I am generally offsite on the weekend, so making posts with bold letters in them directed at me on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday will generally get you nowhere. Sorry, but I'm allowed to have a life too!

Rules for Nonsensical Posts:

In satellite communication, we have a thing called a noise floor -- essentially it's the level of generic noise that a signal has to exceed to be able to be picked out in a crowd. Think of being in a busy arena or stadium, and how you have to talk louder to your mates to get them to hear you. The same principle applies to Mafia. The more noise (ie, nonsensical / filler posts) there are in a game, the higher the noise floor goes, and the more difficult it becomes to play the game. Please keep this in mind while posting.

[Mirth]

Mod: I think you should check the vote count...I unvoted Seb and Chuck is voting him.

Well CLEARLY that is what that vote count says. *halo*

[ChuckNorris]

Ok. Sorry again guys. Haven't been as active today. Had school. Anyway here are my thoughts on recent posts.

Post 185-187: Seb...that is a load of Craplogic. The only reason I said Serous first was that he was the only one i saw as lurking/away. Then when I realised that cute.without.e was lurking/away too, I wrote that in later. I'm sorry but how can realising someone else is lurking/away scummy???

Post 190: I find this slightly scummy. Only because it seemed like on page 6 you and Seb were buddies(not scumbuddies) and were, rather annoyingly, talking about nothing to do with the game. I don't find that scummy about either of you. But suddenly when it really looks like we're gonna lynch Seb you suddenly start being, not unkind or anything like that, but rather you are maybe distancing yourself from your possible scumbuddy?

MFoS:Mr A

Mod- Really sorry. I thought it was more than theweekend as this is a very active game, so 2 days, is about 4 or 5 pages. Mybad. Please accept my apologies. =(

[dejkha]

@Dej:

1. You jumped over Mirth's wagon with almost no reason for. (already discussed)
2. You were very reluctant to abbandon Mirth's vote.

- You even said " I'm gonna take even the smallest lead I can get. If I unvote, I'll be right back to a mostly random vote. "
- You entered several discussions about Mirth, even if it was pretty clear that Mirth's case was a kind of joke.

3. But if you are gonna use anything to base your cases, because you dont want to randomize, why havent you even considered Seb?

1. Mhm
2. Thats was before I realized we didn't have to vote, so I felt that Mirth cleared things up a bit. As I said earlier though, I'm still keeping an eye on her and Seb for anything else suspicious.
3. As I said in 2) I'm keeping my eye on Seb. IMO, he's a tough one to read because of his inconsisant behavior and even though he's done quite a few scummy things, it may be because he's a newbie and might be a townie. It's not like all the mistakes he's made means he's scum. He may be a newbie that screwed up. I'm continuing to analyze his posts.

Anyway, I would like Chuck to be lynched if I turn out innocent. Umm... have a, great day?

Wow. What the hell kind of request is that? Not only does it seem like a random choice to me, but I doubt anyone will try to lynch him based on a request even if you turned out to be innocent.

The bit in Italic, I find quite interesting. Do you think that Dej and Seb are Scumbuddies? The thing is, if he was scum wouldn't he try and "distance" ,i think it is, from his scumbuddy. Don't scum sometimes do that? That is kinda a question to anyone who knows really. I find that quite interesting. Maybe he is just a noob mafia who wants to keep his scumbuddy or a clever Mafia who is using "WIFOM?", or he is just town who doesn't think Seb is scummy.

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I'm just not sure about Seb yet. I don't know if he is really scum of if he's a townie going through a worse case of what I had before when I voted for Mirth and he's just freaking out. So I wouldn't say that I don't think he's scummy, but he's definitely not in the clear.

@Seb: You're sounding rather cocky lately. As if once the attention's off you and have evidence against someone else you'll be forgotten about. You fail to realize that you wont be in the clear because people will remember what you've said and will continue to notice in the future.

As for myself and who I suspect; I suspect nearly everyone, but with the exception of Seb, they're mostly all for

very

loose reasons.

[nureins]

Post 190: I find this slightly scummy. Only because it seemed like on page 6 you and Seb were buddies(not scumbuddies) and were, rather annoyingly, talking about nothing to do with the game. I don't find that scummy about either of you. But suddenly when it really looks like we're gonna lynch Seb you suddenly start being, not unkind or anything like that, but rather you are maybe distancing yourself from your possible scumbuddy?

MFoS:Mr A

On page 6, Mr. A was already voting for seb, who had 3 votes on him and all chances to be lynched. I dont think we are now in a position where he has avoided lynch, but I cannot perceive how different is now from page 6. So your argument cannot apply.

Also, if Mr. A and seb are scum, they are very inexperienced scum. It is difficult to understand A's quick vote on seb. And even if he voted for him, he would have used any excuse (some nice words about seb, any) to unvote him. So this pair is rather strange.

Yet dunno how to interpret A's msg about Seb, given that both of them were obviously not helping the reading in page 6...

[Mirth]

Chuck: your argument on 190 is farfetched. Maybe he stopped because I (and the mod) have pointed out that if they want to chat, there's always GD. This sounds like it's reaching. Now then, I don't think Mr. A is in the clear, but not because of stopping the chitchat. Rather not really playing.

Dej: excellent point about not being in the clear. I just disagree with you on how much leeway to give newbies.

[caf19]

Some thoughts from me:

Mr. A comes across as an unhelpful player - his noise-to-signal ratio is high, and his posts tends to be one-liners. I've seen scum play like that before, although that doesn't mean they all do. He is also a little impatient, which might be a more solid indicator of scumminess. Post 101:

Well its all very interesting (every time i go on i have to read like 3 pages because i go to school) I still think seb is very scummy, bcause he keeps on changing his excuses, and now he seems all sorry. Well im not changing my vote. I think ill wait and see who jumps on his L-1.

@serous please post something relevant!

@Mod

CAN WE PLEASE REPLACE SEROUS?

The premature calling for a replacement, coupled with the "see who jumps on his L-1" which seems a bit like pushing for someone to do so, make him look somewhat jumpy here.

@ Mr A: what information did you intend to get from seeing who placed the L-1 vote? Now that someone did briefly go to L-1 (ChuckNorris) what do you think of them?

Actually, it is very very very rare from me to outright say that I'm not scum, regardless of whether I'm scum or town. I could be scum. I could not be.

My two cents on the matter is that declaring your towniness is largely a null tell. In every post anyone makes they are implicitly claiming to be town, as they want everyone else to believe this. They're hardly going to claim to be scum. So people saying "I'm town" doesn't really irk me, and I find that if they're frustrated enough to say that then they're probably under a lot of pressure and there are much better arguments against them anyway.

Of course, claiming a specific role (as Seb did) is a different matter, and is generally anti-town if done out of the blue.