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[Something_Smart]

It’s possible but in most cases, it’s statistically far more likely to either be S/T or T/T than S/S.

Well when one of the wagons has flipped scum, they're statistically not very likely to be T/T. I'm not sure that leading wagons are S/S at a lower rate than you would see by chance?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

It’s possible but in most cases, it’s statistically far more likely to either be S/T or T/T than S/S.

Well when one of the wagons has flipped scum, they're statistically not very likely to be T/T. I'm not sure that leading wagons are S/S at a lower rate than you would see by chance?

Well that’s been my experience. Also there’s more townies, another contributing factor right?

[Something_Smart]

Who do you think is scum? I don’t think you are but I need an alternative.

I guess my number one pick would probably be Distance, but I'm willing to compromise on almost anyone I don't townread (my townreads being VFP, mastina, S&M, maybe CB).

[Something_Smart]

Might as well VOTE: Distance

But like I said, I'm around and willing to switch.

[Cupcake Butterfly]

love the "maybes" on my slot, makes this interesting

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Might as well VOTE: Distance

But like I said, I'm around and willing to switch.

I think he’s town. Who do you dislike off Kitty wagon?

[Something_Smart]

love the "maybes" on my slot, makes this interesting

Yeah I mean I don't want to kill you and that's in some part because you've been playing consistent with your towngame and in some part because I like you. Unsure how much of each part it is, though.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Who do you think is scum? I don’t think you are but I need an alternative.

I guess my number one pick would probably be Distance, but I'm willing to compromise on almost anyone I don't townread (my townreads being VFP, mastina, S&M, maybe CB).

I really think SS is town.

[Cupcake Butterfly]

288 and 290 are the only posts where Flea could've actually been seen as a threat to a player outside of Gamma/Alisae.

Flea was aware that VFP/Mastina could've been buddying faer.
Fae argued Imaginality's D1 scumread on Kyouko.
And voted Cyrus, while also pressuring Distance without a vote.

So that's 5 players that did may not have benefited from faer play.

love the "maybes" on my slot, makes this interesting

Yeah I mean I don't want to kill you and that's in some part because you've been playing consistent with your towngame and in some part because I like you. Unsure how much of each part it is, though.

lmao, so am I town that's misguided on you or maybe scum that's going for that golden mislim?

Who do you think is scum? I don’t think you are but I need an alternative.

I guess my number one pick would probably be Distance, but I'm willing to compromise on almost anyone I don't townread (my townreads being VFP, mastina, S&M, maybe CB).

I really think SS is town.

*cries in BIG BEAK*

[Something_Smart]

I think he’s town. Who do you dislike off Kitty wagon?

{Cyrus, marci, ssbm} would be my exe pool then. I don't especially scumread any of them, though.

[Something_Smart]

lmao, so am I town that's misguided on you or maybe scum that's going for that golden mislim?

Yeah. I mean as I said, I can't really speak to the scumreads on my slot. I wasn't really able to engage with the game until now, and of course I can't defend anything Misty did.

[imaginality]

Weekend stuff.

UNVOTE: Gamma

Kitty may be scum for multiple reasons. I'll think when I'm on.

I'm also happy to put everyone on the Kitty wagon as town.
Scum looked dis organised or just absent to not move over to me or even try else where.

This reinforces the idea that at least 1 scum is a deepwolf, but i think another resides on VFP wagon. This assumes that the ganeatate points to VFP town which I think is plausible. I feel like if scum could've quockhammered a townie, they wouldn't because thwy would knowingly get turbo limmed with deadlines this short and votes coming down to "3? You're dead."

I've seen several people mention quick hammering (or quockhammering ) but I don't think scum

can

quick hammer under this rule set can they (except when it's already very close to deadline)? Like, if VFP got that extra vote when VFP was E-1 early this game day, we'd still carry on to end of market day and people could leave that wagon, and in theory it could even end up with someone else being eliminated.

Then I'm very interested to hear on what you think VFP's alignment is, and how the wagon might have influenced that read, alongside how it helps you read his wagoners.

I think VFP is highly likely town.
Partly that's a read based on posting (activity a bit inconsistent but seems to be actively trying to solve things/raise questions, also I don't think scum unvote at the end of D1 rather than bus Kitty or try to get a different wagon in place).

Partly it's because of the D2 wagon - I feel like scum who reflected on how D1 went down would want to get a wagon on town going early on D2 because I really don't think they want to risk a second scum elim. So when the wagon grew quickly on VFP it led me to feel more confident in my town read.

Also I feel like VFP reacted reasonably to the wagon, still analysing others and asking a few decent questions rather than just self-defense or omgussy posting.

Will comment on the wagoners in my next post.

[Something_Smart]

I felt like ssbm has just been putting out general tryhard vibes all game. These are generally towny, but they don't have to be. Do you think he's town, Nancy? Why did you unvote him?

[Something_Smart]

Also hi imaginality

Can you talk about why you scumread my slot? I feel like you really haven't done that much, at least that I have seen

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I think he’s town. Who do you dislike off Kitty wagon?

{Cyrus, marci, ssbm} would be my exe pool then. I don't especially scumread any of them, though.

I liked Marci’s posting. I don’t know.

But I would rather have any of them flip over you.

VOTE: Cyrus

Idk? His vote on us was stupid. Kyouki could still be scum but he might be resolved?

[Cupcake Butterfly]

Hello, to anyone here capable of rational thought. It’s pretty damned obvious that Flea was killed in order for me to get pushed here. It’s not rocket science.

im not capable of rational thought sis sorry

This adds nothing to the conversation but Marci is 10/10 A+ vibe, tbh.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I felt like ssbm has just been putting out general tryhard vibes all game. These are generally towny, but they don't have to be. Do you think he's town, Nancy? Why did you unvote him?

Could still be scum.

VOTE: Kyouku

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: Cyrus

Why vote us instead of taking a stand?

Idk, I guess I could do either. What do you guys think? Kyouku or Cyrus?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

So we only have to scum left ok I like my vote on s and m b but if as flips town and submit lives to day3

I don’t like this, he’s not trying to take a stand. We’re a safe vote and he knows it.

[Something_Smart]

Well ssbm seems more likely to go through because he has an extra vote, but I'm pretty ambivalent between the two.

[Something_Smart]

I'll follow you though.

VOTE: Cyrus

[Smoke and Mirrors]

So, I will go with which one of those two we can get 3 votes on. SS is almost certainly flipping town, so I want to save obvtown!SS rather than kill anyone. Who’s with me?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

This post took a very long time to write on my phone. Please take the time to read it :/

Starting at 565, rereading S&M's ISO as they have accused me of acting in bad faith/ignoring their question:

In 610 you indicate I egregiously misunderstood you - what was it that I was misunderstanding? Could you clear that up for me?

639: this is the second time you've indicated I will eventually sr Imaginality and Gamma and ftr I'd already 180ed on Imaginality toward EoD1, and I believe neither of their votes on Kitty were a bus, and they dont have the same partner associations you and distance have with Kitty. I don't like their vote on me right now but they're generally bad at reading me from what I remember. Gamma will remember in 2213 how I, as a widely TRed townie, believed so strongly that he was town that I faked a guilty on another player who turned out to be town. I was right about Gamma then and I feel just as certain about VFP here. He is not dying toDay. I don't wk as scum.

If Gamma doesnt move off of me and I end up eliminated today, I urge you all to review 2213 and seriously consider Gamma's reasoning for voting me.

642 this is the first non-rhetorical question I've seen you post that I didn't already respond to, and even it borderlines on rhetorical. I do think there is a world where I am wrong about both you and Distance. I do not think we are in it, but I would bet the game on VFP being town here.

I am passing the MO to VFP as of right now.

643 here is where you provided a dissatisfactory answer to my question. I was asking specifically what you thought about the reasoning I provided at the time that I voted VFP at end of day 1? As a reminder/tldr, my reasoning was that Kitty seemed like the "default" plurality lim that was being slipped through by scum and that if scum wanted to lim Kitty, it made sense to me to lim anyone besides him. I saw Misty, who I was townreading at the time, voted VFP, a player I had an early scumread on, who I thought Gamma, another TR of mine, might be willing to vote. I then voted VFP and appealed to Gamma for assistance in eliminating VFP.

does any of my reasoning sound scummy to you? If so, please be specific. I believe you intentionally misinterpreted the intent of my question and avoided providing a complete answer. This was the original reason you cited for pushing me today and it is very important that you explain your reasoning, because as it stands your push appears to have been in bad faith.

652 here you ask if it is possible I was misunderstanding you. I interpreted from 565 where you originally shade me that you wanted town me to vote VFP, because In that post, you quote my vote count of the players on the VFP wagon as evidence. I think you were frustrated that I had lost interest in voting VFP after seeing the Kitty flip. This is unusual because VFP was counter to scum, so why would i want to vote him after that? And dont say I'm not voting him today for towncred, as i obviously dont need it, as is evidenced by the MO vote on D1.

I'll post the full quote for this one as there are embedded quotes that matter here and it's easier this way.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

VOTE: kitty

Good vote and I really don’t understand the sr on you either. I don’t have a strong read on you yet but it looks like you’ve been genuinely sorting.

I still do think this. Have you critically examined his ISO? I’m referring to his other reads and don’t understand why town!you are myopically only focused on Kitty?

I explained why I tr him and it had absolutely nothing to do with Kitty. Re-read my ISO because you seem to be ignoring any of my posts that don’t seem to fit your narrative.

I have critically examined Distance's ISO. I believe there are associations there that point to a team with you and Kitty. I do not believe there was evidence of genuine sorting as of post 347 which is where you cited that you TR him for genuine sorting. His other reads were by and large, shallow or unexplained townreads that are easily faked as scum. There is nothing that indicates to me that he was scumhunting as of 347.

I have now reread your iso from 565 to this post I quoted and I dont believe I ignored any of your posts that "dont fit my narrative." If such posts exist, please quote them for everyone to see, so you can actually provide evidence to support at least one bit of shade you're casting on me.

664 sorry if I'm making you feel personally attacked - whether you're scum or not - I don't see another reason for you to bring this up, but please try to look out for bolded text if you can. If I weren't phone posting almost all the time I would color code or something to try to make my posts more clear for you.

714 if it has to be someone off the wagon, I'm not really sure. Obviously I'm tunneled.right now but I would have to reread d2 and see. Gut instinct, if the Kitty wagon was pure, Cyrus, CB, Marci, or S_S, most likely CB or Cyrus. I'm still suspicious about him being around at deadline on d1. I think he was looking to buy hitman for 425. Its possible scum!cyrus thought Roleblocker but I doubt it. If it just has to be someone off of the wagon then maybe mastina gets thrown in too because I'm having a hard time.reading her D1 and was somewhat relying on other players like yourself to let me know if I should be worried about her right now (on D1). Was saving her to sort for later but as i see her as a possible alternative partner to scum!you, or potentially using town!you as a beard, I'd probably want to look at her the closest. Problem is I dont have time to do any of that with the deadline incoming. Its 2 am here...

716 which head posted this? If it was nancy not pooky, why didn't you quote this before when I asked about Flea crumbing/claiming cop bid?

717 which question are you referring to? I think it's in bad faith to not let me know which question in this post. I did you that courtesy several times because I really care about getting a complete answer to a very specific question. You're not helping me to TR you if you are town, and I really am and have been trying.

719 while this may come from frustrated town, for that very reason it is also an excusable way for scum to dismiss my push: "I’m not sure I even care about parsing you if you’re going to be this bad."

However, you bringing up this quote is making lean to you’re not being town, why? Because if you use your brain, it’s pretty damned obvious that scum is trying to set us up and if you’re scum with Kitty, you referencing that quote makes perfect sense.

First of all, it is not obvious to me, so could you explain? Second, saying "if you're scum with kitty" kind of feels like something you only say if you know kitty has different partners, since kitty is already flipped. Maybe that's just tunnel vision though. The verbiage is weird to me.

722 if it is so blatantly obviously a shitpush, then why are you not providing any evidence to refute my points? Why are you instead resorting to discrediting me if, by your own admission, it is obvious what is wrong with my push? This is not how town behaves.

724 I have made every effort to be transparent in my push on you and you have resorted to discrediting me the entire time. It is laughable that you would accuse me of acting in bad faith when all of the evidence points to the contrary.

727
I get that you would notice it because it was directed at you. What was unusual was that you happened to remember it. It seems like such a minor detail to be concerned about as town, but it makes sense for scum to keep track of it.

The rest of the posts I'll respond to individually.

Because I find it inconceivable that anyone would seriously think that I A) read that post, acknowledged it and referenced it and still B) would do that if I killed Flea. It would be like I’m trying to set myself up the next day and that’s why it read like a possible frame up to me, like scum saw that post Flea made and killed fae to frame me.

You're probably right in that it doesnt make sense that you would reference it if you killed flea, but I was thinking it was a slip. There are enough people saying this is TvT, and I had the same thought before I looked at flea's cop crumb, so for now I'll go with that. If you're scum good job I guess, you out-wifomed everyone and yelled your way out of it.

I think that’s what very likely happened and since you were the one who pointed it out and have been tunnelling me despite catching Kitty, it looked like it was you. I don’t feel personally attacked though but it’s extremely hard for me to not see it as a shitpush. I don’t think Distance is scum, so I honestly don’t get that read either. When Kitty made all of those reads, he didn’t know he was getting elimed, that’s why I think he’s spewed town. I think Kitty was in antispew and every name he did reference was town.
color=blue]I meant I dont see why you'd bring up adhd add dyslexia if you didn't feel personally attacked, not that my push was in any way personal. Anyways, I'll still have to look at Distance in later days if we're not hitting scum off of the Kitty wagon, I'm not convinced by his iso. Maybe he can change that toMorrow.[/color]

I asked you who do you think is scum off Kitty wagon because if I’m wrong about you, then that’s where I believe scum most likely are.

I just felt like you aren’t really trying to sort me.

Gamma’s town sheeping me I think.

Well, I know I’m town and yes I’m aware that doesn’t mean anything AI, so I obviously know that there aren’t any associatives between my slot and anyone. This isn’t how I play scum but you obviously wouldn’t know that.

How much time left?

Cyrus, CB, Marci, or S_S, most likely CB or Cyrus

I see you did answer. I don’t think Marci. I liked her posting. I hard tr Misty and SS hasn’t done anything to ping me. It’s a toss up with CB. This isn’t typically how they play either town or scum. Maybe take another look at Cyrus?

He had this strange post claiming I said things I know I didn’t, so maybe I shouldn’t have been so quick to tr the no execute?
color=blue]I don't know. I'm worried he's just mislim bait with the way he plays but i haven't see evidence he's trying to sort (as I recall without ISOing), and i do think he was around last time to bid at the last minute which doesnt make sense if he is town. I'm willing to knock mastina off this list for now as well as she has presented some decent efforts, though I dont agree with her conclusions on VFP. My misty read was weaker, like nulltown, and I was biased towards town on her because she was voting me for MO. I think she flipped to herself late D1 which pinged me and maybe that's where the feelings come from. I do know I never.felt strongly.she was town and S_S also seems lacking. Marci has also felt a bit shaky like misty did, but I think she is town here. I get the feeling she believes what she's posting and it's not agenda-driven, so maybe her plan as scum is meshing with the state of the game and she's coasting but I would prefer to go elsewhere toDay.[/color]

UNVOTE:

for now.

I responded in blue inside your quote, hopefully that helps

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Well ssbm seems more likely to go through because he has an extra vote, but I'm pretty ambivalent between the two.

I can vote Kyouku too, whichever one will save you, I’ll do.

[Cupcake Butterfly]

My main gripe with Kyouko was the public justification to get hitman. It felt a bit like theatre using Cyrus as a scapegoat to acquire a scum-PR.

Hmmmmmm... But I don't have strong feelings on Cyrus either way, and while Kyouko doesn't give me warm fuzzy vibes, does that mean scum really?