Mini Normal 2218 | FIA WRC | Endgame

[Seanzie]

Does anyone have any major gripes with anyone above the magic clear line?

Zyla and Galaxis

I'm already engaging about Zyla, so tell me about Galaxis? Their slot is extremely null, so they are mostly where they are at because of lack of scumminess rather than presence of towniness. Do you have a different opinion? Who below the magic clear line do you think should be replaced with Galaxis?

[Zyla]

Seanzie, one question about 598, what makes T3 towny to you? He almost always reads null to me, so I'd love to hear how you're formulating your read

[Zyla]

It seems odd to me that apparently you view all 5 of those as equally scummy

I didn't say nor imply nor anything that. You asked who I thought could be scum other than you, I gave you 5 names and even put a question mark next to one. That you think I was saying that I scumread them equally makes me think you weren't really trying to get anything out of your question i.e. you're not trying to sort me i.e you're scum.

I suppose my question wasn't quite clear enough in that case. I was meaning to ask who you thought the scummiest person in the game (other than me) was. I hadn't realized that you didn't interpret it that way, which is why I responded as such.

I didn't 'miss the next post', I just didn't feel that it was sufficient, so I asked you to explain more
Also, my vote on you wasn't OMGUS, I was making a case on you, and the way you were reacting to it wasn't making me feel you were town. The vote count reminded me that I hadn't yet switched my vote, which I had been planning to do after I finished going through ISOs

You didn't ask me to explain more.

I didn't use those exact words in 308, true. And I could've worded it better initially, but I think that 322 was clear enough to show that I was meaning for you to elaborate

[Seanzie]

Seanzie, one question aboubt 598, what makes T3 towny to you? He almost always reads null to me, so I'd love to hear how you're formulating your read

I liked T3's push on Taco at the very beginning of the game. T3 didn't try to overly shade Taco about it, but instead just pointed out that Taco probably couldn't have formed a read on T3 at that point. T3 has also generally been townhunting, and seems to want to make an effort to explain their thoughts more than they usually do, and I'll always encourage that. Idk T3 well enough to say what is in/out of his ranges, but there things are all on the town-side of null, and I haven't been majorly pinged by them, thus they've float upwards on my list. Especially since most people have pinged me, my bar for being on the "townside" of my list is pretty low.

[Seanzie]

@Zyla, LHF is low hanging fruit.

All, can we seriously wagon somebody?

Who do you propose we wagon?

[T3]

I'm trying to play against my town meta this game mainly because it gets me scumread.

[T3]

Which confirms Salsas thought process was valid.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Dwlee, I'm curious, apart from me, who do you think could be scum?

Idk Lucifer/pav/Galaxis/salsa?/t3

Lmao, do you have any reads other than me?

Everyone else at least townlean. What's wrong with thinking any of those people could be scum?

Nothing, it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list

Nothing, it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list

What?

Read this interaction, Seanzie, then with a straight face tell me Zyla is your top town read.

I agree it is an awkward interaction, but I don't see it as necessarily scummy. Idk Zyla as a player, but them asking you if you have any reads other than them right after you listed scum suspects seems weird in a way that I can't attribute as being AI. Like, what is the scum motive there? It looks like they're just confused. If I had to prescribe scumminess, I'd say they were nervous and just straight-up flubbed, but again that is IF I had to prescribe it, I don't see anything that truly suggests that. How are you interpreting that interaction?

Aside from this, what other things do you find scummy there? I didn't like Zyla's first two posts, but I thought their posts after that looked reasonably good. Since I'm finding most people scummy in this game, the least scummy of the bunch ends up at the top of the list.

"Reasonably good" is the top of your list? Above taco?

Yes. Taco's super reactionary OMGUS style is something I am inherently suspicious of, because it is a style that relatively good wolves can hide behind. Also, Taco seems quite a bit different than the last game I played with them where they were town (I was scum, but it was a multiball game, so I could still judge others relatively well as I only had TMI on my own teammates). Granted, they had a claim that game that made them very likely town, so idk if the differences are AI. Either way, I am very resistant to the idea of having Taco on the top of my list as I do not necessarily trust them.

As I've said, I'm honestly having a hard time finding towny things about people this game, whereas I can point out scummy stuff on pretty much everyone right now, so my list is less "this person is up there because they're super towny", and more "this person is up there because they aren't as scummy as the others".

What you're saying isn't unreasonable but it feels too "mechanical" to me.

I dont think mechanical is the right word. What I mean is it feels like a pure game/logic standpoint that takes the responsibility of forming strong reads away from you as a player and shifts it onto this "poe/clear line". Yes you are correct in that without unexpected KP that a correct list will lead to a victory, but if even one scum slips into your top half the game is lost (if you stick with the strategy). Playing by the "clear line" leads to lining mislims in all likelihood, regardless of alignment.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm trying to play against my town meta this game mainly because it gets me scumread.

What would you say your town meta is? You're like always scum to me so I tend to not trust my read

[Seanzie]

Dwlee, I'm curious, apart from me, who do you think could be scum?

Idk Lucifer/pav/Galaxis/salsa?/t3

Lmao, do you have any reads other than me?

Everyone else at least townlean. What's wrong with thinking any of those people could be scum?

Nothing, it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list

Nothing, it's just interesting that you don't have even one of them just slightly higher on your possibilities list

What?

Read this interaction, Seanzie, then with a straight face tell me Zyla is your top town read.

I agree it is an awkward interaction, but I don't see it as necessarily scummy. Idk Zyla as a player, but them asking you if you have any reads other than them right after you listed scum suspects seems weird in a way that I can't attribute as being AI. Like, what is the scum motive there? It looks like they're just confused. If I had to prescribe scumminess, I'd say they were nervous and just straight-up flubbed, but again that is IF I had to prescribe it, I don't see anything that truly suggests that. How are you interpreting that interaction?

Aside from this, what other things do you find scummy there? I didn't like Zyla's first two posts, but I thought their posts after that looked reasonably good. Since I'm finding most people scummy in this game, the least scummy of the bunch ends up at the top of the list.

"Reasonably good" is the top of your list? Above taco?

Yes. Taco's super reactionary OMGUS style is something I am inherently suspicious of, because it is a style that relatively good wolves can hide behind. Also, Taco seems quite a bit different than the last game I played with them where they were town (I was scum, but it was a multiball game, so I could still judge others relatively well as I only had TMI on my own teammates). Granted, they had a claim that game that made them very likely town, so idk if the differences are AI. Either way, I am very resistant to the idea of having Taco on the top of my list as I do not necessarily trust them.

As I've said, I'm honestly having a hard time finding towny things about people this game, whereas I can point out scummy stuff on pretty much everyone right now, so my list is less "this person is up there because they're super towny", and more "this person is up there because they aren't as scummy as the others".

What you're saying isn't unreasonable but it feels too "mechanical" to me.

I dont think mechanical is the right word. What I mean is it feels like a pure game/logic standpoint that takes the responsibility of forming strong reads away from you as a player and shifts it onto this "poe/clear line". Yes you are correct in that without unexpected KP that a correct list will lead to a victory, but if even one scum slips into your top half the game is lost (if you stick with the strategy). Playing by the "clear line" leads to lining mislims in all likelihood, regardless of alignment.

I'm not planning on ever autoing, and I'm still sorting within the "above" and "below" of the clear line, and will push people over/under the clear line as I see fit, so I think your worries here do not apply.

Instead, it is something that helps me and others think about the game. If you see someone you strongly scumread above my clear line, then that means we probably have something to talk about. Right now, I do not feel confident at all about the state of my readslist, but hopefully as the game goes on, certain names will start to clearly belong above the magical clear line, and those become my towncore. Some names will clearly never be able to get above the clear line, and those become my main suspects (even if they aren't always the most scummy, if someone just does NOT belong above the magical clear line, they need to be resolved), and for the people that shuffle back and forth across that line a lot, those are clearly people I need to spend more time looking into to try to get a better read on.

This isn't the only way to think about the game, but it can be a useful thought exercise.

[T3]

I'm trying to play against my town meta this game mainly because it gets me scumread.

What would you say your town meta is? You're like always scum to me so I tend to not trust my read

I usually don't case people and rely on tone.

[Seanzie]

I'm trying to play against my town meta this game mainly because it gets me scumread.

What would you say your town meta is? You're like always scum to me so I tend to not trust my read

I usually don't case people and rely on tone.

Is your choice to change up your meta for this game caused by something, or just decided to do it?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Zyla

I dont like you here. You dont vibe well with me '~'

Can you explain what isn't vibing with you? Your entire iso is "I'm so confused" and then you just naked vote in he middle of a wagon without adding anything to it or even acknowledging that you agree with the existing cases.

@Zyla, LHF is low hanging fruit.

All, can we seriously wagon somebody?

What about Zyla? You seemed interested though I saw it was maybe contingent on scum!pav. What do you think about the Galaxis vote on Zyla?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

titus, could you talk about your lucifer read?

Tris what's your analysis on Lucifer? Why'd you decide to vote Titus rather than Pav after your catch-up?

[T3]

I'm trying to play against my town meta this game mainly because it gets me scumread.

What would you say your town meta is? You're like always scum to me so I tend to not trust my read

I usually don't case people and rely on tone.

Is your choice to change up your meta for this game caused by something, or just decided to do it?

Mainly because people scumread it and people have voiced that it's annoying.

[T3]

Something I've noticed about kyo is that he only seemsto be asking questions and not providing original thought. This is only from this page though. I'm not sure if this is a playstyle thing but I'll note it.

[T3]

I skimmed his ISO and nvm to the above.

[Titus]

Which confirms Salsas thought process was valid.

Someone has caught my naming disease regarding SF.

[Titus]

VOTE: Zyla

I dont like you here. You dont vibe well with me '~'

Can you explain what isn't vibing with you? Your entire iso is "I'm so confused" and then you just naked vote in he middle of a wagon without adding anything to it or even acknowledging that you agree with the existing cases.

@Zyla, LHF is low hanging fruit.

All, can we seriously wagon somebody?

What about Zyla? You seemed interested though I saw it was maybe contingent on scum!pav. What do you think about the Galaxis vote on Zyla?

I'm tempted. I just want out of this stage where we have like 6 wagons of one person each.

[Seanzie]

Dwlee, did you ever finish that trustfall ISO?

[Dwlee99]

I got bored looking for a townie post

[Seanzie]

VOTE: Dwlee99

I have a very hard time thinking that you as town couldn't find a single reason, no matter how weak, that Zyla is town.

[Dwlee99]

You'd think that would look worse for Zyla than for me

"She has asked people questions about what they're thinking"

and then what has she done with it...?

[T3]

I'm getting strong tvt vibes from the Dwlle/Zyla interaction. Idk why.

[T3]

I don't have strong reads on either of them at this point.