Open 815: Forest Fire Redux [Endgame]

[Lukewarm]

Strangely, I think that Hectic's catchup has simultaneously made me more suspicious of Child AND more suspicious of hectic himself. But also, don't think they could be partners.

[Child of Fairies]

Okay, it looks like there's been some sort of miscommunication here.

When I was referring to you dragging out the engagement, I was referring specifically to your second attempt to bait hectic and the ensuing fallout with Infinity and I catching it. There you did try to avoid for a bit until you ultimately blew up at Infinity over it, then explained what you were doing and blamed her and myself for it not working. That's the interaction I keep coming back to with you. Everything else past that has been difficult to parse comparatively, especially because I really don't feel like being yelled at just for trying to play.

And you may have planted it there for Hectic, but there's seven other people in the game who are all reading and engaging and trying to solve as well. Your response to somebody else catching this thing you left there was to be incredibly rude and insulting to Infinity and I because we weren't puppets for you and had thoughts on the game and made an effort to actually post them. Especially Infinity, as she was the one who took the brunt of it at the time. So excuse me for not wanting to interact with you when your response to being challenged on something this game has been to get legitimately angry over it. You did it later with Ydra as well, although you did at least recognize it after the fact.

And for the selfhammer, I was working under the idea that you were upset enough to get what you wanted (an unvote) and then just keep going out of tilt, as you seemed genuinely angry and may not have been able to stop yourself. I didn't want to bring it up with you and make you angry, so I just let it go. Maybe that's on me for not wanting to poke the proverbial bear here.

[Child of Fairies]

As for the aside, maybe "tunnel" wasn't entirely the right word. I was referring to how you were the only player who didn't seem to fully tr lukewarm right off the bat and instead made an effort to push him and engage with him about things. In my head this could come from either town (wants to properly sort a slot everyone else has written as town to avoid town being played) or scum (wants to create some confusion on a slot that people are tring), so I wrote it off as interesting, but not alignment indicative on its own.

While catching up, I read hectic's comments on this, and it reminded me of something I wanted to mention.

Child, if fidget's questions directed at me were enough for you to comment on, what did you think of hectic voting and pushing me at one point? I feel like hectic's push on me was much stronger then anything Fidget did, so I am interested why Fidget's stood out, but you did not mention Hectic's

Hectic's didn't really ping me as much since I read it as a genuine misunderstanding on his part. He trs you for a bit, the 1v1 happens, and then he has you in his scumreads without any explanation for a bit after. When asked, he says it was because of a gap in posting and something related to you Tring T3 and lampshading your own paranoia about it. The entire thing was dropped after a combined ~8 posts from both of you, and Hectic moved on. In fact, in literally the same page the two of you are debating it he makes a readlist with you as his 3rd from the top tr.

I just kind of read it as "hey Lukewarm why'd you leave and why are you paranoid about t3" > "I wasn't the only one who left and the t3 thing was a meta joke" > "gotcha", compared to Fidget having a more substantial discussion with you about it, which stood out to me more.

[Prism]

I am happy to see the acknowledgement of my points; I think your clarification of what is meant by "confusion" is very helpful, and there the blame falls squarely on me. I thought you were saying the confusion was

intentional

on my end, as opposed to me playing poorly regardless of alignment. I accept the latter. I also accept the argument that I wouldn't really be able to restrain myself as town.

I will accept the criticism for how I responded to Infinity, and take ownership of making you feel as though I don't respect the other players or the space in the game. I am human and got frustrated with Infinity and yourself, even as I decided to explain something I did not want to for both of your sakes. I can be very demanding and harsh when it comes to challenging players to meet my own subjective standard of play. Finally, my enthusiasm is a double-edged sword that leads to me posting too often and taking up too much space. I try to counterbalance this with posts like 494 and 498, encouraging you to branch out in a way that was for all of our benefit, but I recognize behavior does not cancel out. I have been harsh this game, and while this wasn't included in your wall I think 247 was unacceptably mean as an example.

As a final note, this conversation prompted by ignoring the more respectful ask in 505:

To be more specific: Are you saying that I would be unable to restrain myself from selfhammering as town, or that I would not

want

to restrain myself to begin with?

I take up too much space and can be a real jerk, but I don't think I've ignored a single question posed to me. I typed those paragraphs explaining my point as much for your sake as for mine. I hope we all can do the same for each other. Ignoring my point over just respectfully rejecting it and calling it a day was clearly counterproductive. Now that we're on the same page, I hope you can be more forthcoming with your actual reasoning moving forward, and I will keep striving to be better on my end both by posting less and treating the other players with more respect.

[Prism]

As much shit as I rib notscience, the quote that I am most proud of comes from him:

Prism plays hard and doesn’t like the halfassed Shit

But is fair and willing to give space to engage

I take a lot of pride in my level of effort and in pushing other players to dig deeper and play harder. Simultaneously, I can overshoot it, and clearly I have done so.

[MURDERCAT]

Vote Count 1.11

[2] Child of Fairies: T3, Hectic
[2] JohnnyFarrar: Infinity 324, Prism
[1] Prism: Child of Fairies
[1] Hectic: Lukewarm
[1] Fidget: JohnnyFarrar
[0] Infinity 324:
[0] T3:
[0] Ydrasse:
[0] Lukewarm:

Not voting: Fidget, Ydrasse

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline expires in

(expired on 2021-06-12 21:58:45).

Mod Notes:
- Seeking a replacement for JohnnyFarrar, deadline is frozen until a replacement is found.

[MURDERCAT]

JohnnyFarrar has been replaced by humaneatingmonkey, please welcome them!
24 hours has been added to the deadline.
Deadline expires in

(expired on 2021-06-13 21:58:45).

[humaneatingmonkey]

what's up

i haven't played this setup before so how is this any different than normal mafia

[humaneatingmonkey]

oh nice i can still participate after death

[humaneatingmonkey]

so we have no associatives until it's too late, right? everything is up to dayplay. after our first two elims, we will know if one of them is town or all of them is town because the game has not ended yet right?

[Infinity 324]

Pretty sure there are still flips

[Prism]

It's 2v7 mountainous where town gets treestumps (non-voting IC) and occasionally a chance to gain an extra elim (by eliminating someone already primed)

We get flips from elims, treestumps are revealed to be town-aligned and may keep posting while scum flips and exits the game

[T3]

so we have no associatives until it's too late, right? everything is up to dayplay. after our first two elims, we will know if one of them is town or all of them is town because the game has not ended yet right?

There are still flips.

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay cool. i'll read the thread and react in realtime

[humaneatingmonkey]

is there any differences at all with how scum behaves here than in normal games?

[humaneatingmonkey]

like i would assume town would have less reason to feel panic in D1

[Prism]

Losing an elimination, which is in limited supply and the only way to eliminate scum, is not optimal. The difference between here and a regular game for a stump is that you get to talk.

[humaneatingmonkey]

and also that we have no info from NK because scum just prepares for them

A perfect scum game is:
Day 1 - 2v7
Day 2 - 2v7 (actually 5 — 1 primed, 1 stumped)
Day 3 - 2v7 (actualy 3 or MYLO — 2 primed, 2 stumped)
Day 4 - Scum win, without giving away any associative

so our best bet is to get our elim right and force an early burning so that we can get info. am I getting this right?

[Prism]

I suspect there is more theory around early burns but I think you get the gist and what is actually important.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Prism seems to be up to her towny antics so far

can you explain

[Infinity 324]

I felt like asking ydrasse to vote someone and using that to sort her seems like something prism would do as town, and as scum the towncred she'd get from doing that is a bit questionable.

[humaneatingmonkey]

your read is a bit questionable

[Prism]

I already have comments but I will hold off until you finish. Don't know how much I'll be around today as I have a long drive after work but will try to answer any questions at least.

[Infinity 324]

your read is a bit questionable

Your slot is a bit questionable

Honestly I don't really care that much because early townreads give a lot of good info

[humaneatingmonkey]

Your slot is a bit questionable

what's wrong with my slot