Newbie 682 - Mayhem in Umore - Game Over, Scum Win!

[Mirth]

If someone is agreeing without providing their own opinion, then it could be scummy.

[ChuckNorris]

Oh ok. Thanks. I see how that could be scummy. hmmm. Is the Mod there? I can't remember if we've even had a vote count!!!

[ChuckNorris]

Ok this sucks. I was wondering about The Road to Rome, and I saw that cute.without.e, was on but not posting. So she is chosing not to post.

mFoS:cute.without.e

because I think she is lurking. Not a big FoS though...

[nureins]

Dej, nothing else you want to comment on?

unvote:Seb

for the time being. I want everyone here first.

As to agreeing, that depends on how you go about doing it.

If you consider L-1 risky and bad for town, why dont you suspect of chuck ? some Fos, some....

Taking into account that you IC-adviced him to a level that is almost a coaching, it is surprise that he puts him in L-1, you unvote without "coaching or IC-advicing" chuck about the bad this might be for town...

[Mirth]

I have already explained why I think it is too early to put anyone at L-1 multiple times. I've gotten sick of repeating myself.

I don't think Chuck deserves an FOS yet, but I am not happy with his action.

Also, Nur, what do you make of me admitting to coaching Seb, since you're focusing so much on coaching?

[nureins]

I don't think Chuck deserves an FOS yet, but I am not happy with his action.

Also, Nur, what do you make of me admitting to coaching Seb, since you're focusing so much on coaching?

I never talked of you coaching seb. I talked of you coaching chucky, which seems to me very interesting. That you dont even Fos him for something you perceive bad for us is just another connection to be noted...

I agree with you that L-1 is risky. And chuck has not discussed his own view adequately (especially for an L-1). FOS: chucky
Im also waiting for other people to connect/post/comment before advancing...

[Mirth]

You misunderstand my question. I am saying straight out that I was also coaching Seb. With all your emphasis on coaching, why are you ignoring that connection?

[seb456zig]

coz u woodnt OMGUS someone your trying to help!
and that your coaching Chucky is a lot more Scummie than the ADVICE(not coaching) that you gave me.

BTW thx 4 the unvote. but one q.
if someone else unvotes me, are you gonna vote me some more?
coz they cood influence you to bring me to L-1 that way

[Mirth]

Why are you saying that I'm only giving you advice and not coaching? I've been giving you a lot more advice than him.

Yes, I will vote you again, when I feel that it isn't dangerous. I vote when I want to and no one influences me there.

[seb456zig]

can you please give me a direct quote of you coaching me?

[Mirth]

For example

seb 78: instead of going on and on about how you're going to die, maybe you could start playing? Because opinions do change, you know. And please don't refer to other people as town. I have already commented on this to Chuck. Sharing town reads is usually bad.

[Mr Avacado]

@mirth I'm not playing dumb! I AM DUMB! Lol. I wasn't sure whether coaching was what i thought it was so i needed to find out.

[nureins]

You misunderstand my question. I am saying straight out that I was also coaching Seb. With all your emphasis on coaching, why are you ignoring that connection?

That is obvious. Seb is on top of your scum list. you are voting for him (or almost voting for him now), and your comments scrutinized. He is behaving immaturely, and you "coach" him in things that could be distracting. But yet you catched up his scumtells and participate in his wagon...perfect.

But you havent fossed chucky, you havent suspected of him. Yet he has done already several suspicious things and you were coaching him...that connection is interesting to me, and I note it. Not very relevant, but to take into account this things is my task...

[ChuckNorris]

ok. I'm sorry for putting us in a risky position. I was just getting really annoyed with Seb. With all the scummy things he had done, and then he does an OMGUS vote. This angers me as at this stage you shoudn't be doing that kind of things. I think he is trying to distract us from hie scumminess. Yes I do agree that me voting looked a bit scummy btu I'd really had enough of Seb's actions.

@Nur- Please. Do tell me what you find suspicious.

[nureins]

a) Simplifying and making a show of your first analysis (already discussed)
b) Trying to appear careful to Mirth and me, or to everyone. Your post with hundred of fosses but no new piece of information about seb...
c) After all your careful show, you vote for seb. So at the end you were not careful, but with all your previous show, you can say later "i got tired, i was careful but at the end I got tired...". Indeed, youve said something like that. Dont like.
d) I dont think L-1 is a disaster, but we have to wait for other players to participate. Right now there are at least 2 from which we have no reads...
e) No good scumhunter forgets his targets. I was your target number 1. Maybe for stupid reasons, but I was. You didnt put me down in your suspicions (I havent read it), but now you are treating me as town.
f) Related to e), you have forgotten your other targets to join the Seb wagon. Not that you cant, obviously, but you have totally forgotten the others (a scum smelling the blood of seb would forget the others, right?)

You can see that they are not clear reads, as in the case of Seb. Therefore, just a Fos and a careful observation follows...feel free to comment them...

[ChuckNorris]

A)Ok.
B) With my post, since I had missed quite alot, as I was at school, everyone else had already taken out all the scumminess of Seb's posts. So when I found him scummy, it was impossible to find anything new about him.
e) I suppose that does look scummy, but as the main posters are me, you and Mirth, and I don't find you or Mirth scummy, I haven't really got much of a tell on everyone else. If they were to post a little more then maybe I would have more targets.
f) I alrready replied to that in,e).

[nureins]

B) With my post, since I had missed quite alot, as I was at school, everyone else had already taken out all the scumminess of Seb's posts. So when I found him scummy, it was impossible to find anything new about him.
e) I suppose that does look scummy, but as the main posters are me, you and Mirth, and I don't find you or Mirth scummy, I haven't really got much of a tell on everyone else. If they were to post a little more then maybe I would have more targets.

b) You dont need to "appear" as townie. You have to be one. The rest follows. Repeating others just makes the thread ful of the same things. Stating your opinion and going on with your own scumhunting is more profitable for the town.

e) It does. Seb is also a main poster, and you can see how he looks like scummy. You can provoke reads on other people by asking them interesting things...

[nureins]

@Dej:

1. You jumped over Mirth's wagon with almost no reason for. (already discussed)
2. You were very reluctant to abbandon Mirth's vote.

- You even said " I'm gonna take even the smallest lead I can get. If I unvote, I'll be right back to a mostly random vote. "
- You entered several discussions about Mirth, even if it was pretty clear that Mirth's case was a kind of joke.

3. But if you are gonna use anything to base your cases, because you dont want to randomize, why havent you even considered Seb?

Please, save an answer of the kind "because I dont want to risk...he is at L-2..." or something like that...because Im not talking of a vote. Im talking also of a suspicion, comments, investigation, etc...there is nothing.

[seb456zig]

ahh, back from a good long-WTF.
8 posts. I wouldah expected more, anyway.
@Mirth

For example

seb 78: instead of going on and on about how you're going to die, maybe you could start playing? Because opinions do change, you know. And please don't refer to other people as town. I have already commented on this to Chuck. Sharing town reads is usually bad.

You even mentioned that you said the same thing to Chuck. If this is the only "Coaching" example you have on me, i would like you to stop spamming with the same "I coached seb as well so he is scum" sorta thing. Its very annoying. Anyway, I would like Chuck to be lynched if I turn out innocent. Umm... have a, great day?

[ChuckNorris]

B) With my post, since I had missed quite alot, as I was at school, everyone else had already taken out all the scumminess of Seb's posts. So when I found him scummy, it was impossible to find anything new about him.
e) I suppose that does look scummy, but as the main posters are me, you and Mirth, and I don't find you or Mirth scummy, I haven't really got much of a tell on everyone else. If they were to post a little more then maybe I would have more targets.

b) You dont need to "appear" as townie. You have to be one. The rest follows. Repeating others just makes the thread ful of the same things. Stating your opinion and going on with your own scumhunting is more profitable for the town.

e) It does. Seb is also a main poster, and you can see how he looks like scummy. You can provoke reads on other people by asking them interesting things...

B) Still though, It is quite hard to have your own evidence if evryone else has abstracted all the other evidence. Ok. My opinion is that Seb is hiding something by immediately voting, i.e is Scum trying to blend in with the crowd, and now that nearly everyone suspects him, he is trying to buddy up with everyone and stop himself from getting lynched.

E) That is true but some of the content of his posts are utter rubbish, i.e on Page 7 while him and Mr A were literally spamming the thread, please don't do that again, but I suppose he is more active than serous and cute.without.e

@Dej:

1. You jumped over Mirth's wagon with almost no reason for. (already discussed)
2. You were very reluctant to abbandon Mirth's vote.

- You even said " I'm gonna take even the smallest lead I can get. If I unvote, I'll be right back to a mostly random vote. "
- You entered several discussions about Mirth, even if it was pretty clear that Mirth's case was a kind of joke.

3. But if you are gonna use anything to base your cases, because you dont want to randomize, why havent you even considered Seb?

Please, save an answer of the kind "because I dont want to risk...he is at L-2..." or something like that...because Im not talking of a vote. Im talking also of a suspicion, comments, investigation, etc...there is nothing.

The bit in Italic, I find quite interesting. Do you think that Dej and Seb are Scumbuddies? The thing is, if he was scum wouldn't he try and "distance" ,i think it is, from his scumbuddy. Don't scum sometimes do that? That is kinda a question to anyone who knows really. I find that quite interesting. Maybe he is just a noob mafia who wants to keep his scumbuddy or a clever Mafia who is using "WIFOM?", or he is just town who doesn't think Seb is scummy.

Anyway, I would like Chuck to be lynched if I turn out innocent. Umm... have a, great day?

Is this an OMGUS, feeling. Anyway why me? Why not anyone else who voted you or found you scummy. I'd just like to know.

[nureins]

(simplifying. Sorry if i misunderstood seb's msg) Chuck was coached much more than me

wow!
This guy is able to make analysis.
A point for him. I fully agree that both coachings cannot be compared at all. Chucky's one was much more important and this is very substantial given my point that no Fos-suspicion has been done between Mirth and Chucky.

Seb however is unable to interpret the importance of this type of coaching. He thinks Mirth would be using Seb's example to incriminate him. Not at all...If Mirth-chucky were the scum, Mirth would be using Seb's example to show that coaching is her playstyle and that is not related to chucky. She would be shouting " Noooooo chucky and I are not scum !!!!!!!!)"

But they are vague impressions, and as people is saying, the 4 people talking are Seb-chuck-mirth-me essentially, so obviously these vague minor impressions cannot be considered serious scumtells.


The last part "If I die, I want you to lynch chuck" is more shit...
Seb is a good candidate for the moment...

[seb456zig]

Anyway, I would like Chuck to be lynched if I turn out innocent. Umm... have a, great day?

Is this an OMGUS, feeling. Anyway why me? Why not anyone else who voted you or found you scummy. I'd just like to know.

No, its not. Its based on my own feeling towards you. This is just insurance for me

IF

i do die, its just SPAM for the time being. Why are you being so defensive. You think i am scum, so my message wont mean a thing if i die. Unless you know my innocence and you don't want to be revealed for the scumbag you really are through someones death-wish. Something tells me that Chucky isn't gonna live much longer than me!

[seb456zig]

This guy is able to make analysis.

thx, it just comes with XP i think. I also feel smarter than my first two comments.

Lets lynch mirth and nur coz im a noob. lol DIE C*NTS!

its not word 4 for, but wateva. Im just saying that i understand game morals now and i dont feel as noobish now. i hope i dont make any more stupid decisions!

[caf19]

Wow. I had a busy couple of days, moving into a new house and starting my final year of uni etc, and the thread has pretty much exploded in my absence. I did actually get to a computer at one point and write part of a post, but by now that has been made largely out of date. My bad

Here is my opinion on seb456zig.

Well, seb obviously came in looking scummy to me as well. That's been covered rather extensively, so I won't repeat, but I will say a word on his defeatist attitude. Posts like 56, 59 and 87 seem to be accepting or even trying to accelerate his death. This is not explicitly a role-tell as it doesn't help the side he's on (whichever side that actually is), and could be merely a sign of a petulant player. Yet, in posts such as 77, he clearly wants to be kept alive:

DAMN IT!
if i get one more ill be open for hammers, and im gone
I want people to know that the second last vote will kill me.
I would like you all to reconsider, especially the ones thinking of voting me.
Please, at least reread my comments and think of me as a townie, see how i feel!

It's obvious he hasn't really given up on the game. Which makes me think of the defeatism as a scumtell, a cheap appeal to emotion/reverse psychology (in the hope that people will react by persuading him not to let himself die so easily, which helps to keep him alive).

seb calms down after this, which is a good thing for everyone involved. Yet he still can't quite escape from the overly jumpy and disagreeable play. I don't really believe his cases on other players to be genuine. The immediate reasoning given for his vote on Chuck,

Vote:Chucky
I guess this is a OMGUS to your continuous post with mFoS to HoS.
It is also going out on what Nur said on how your logic is flaw.

seems to be entirely taken from nureins's posting. The second part he admits, the first is (in my opinion) an echo of post 112

Seb has done his first and unique relevant comment during the game. Chuck was too melodramatic with his mail,

MFOS -- FOS -- HOS

-- blablablabla, repeating arguments previously done by us and later on asking to the ICs (so basically you, due to your activity) if a vote was ok or not.

(my bold)

Essentially, in 112 nureins took seb's original suspicions (105) and added to them with the motif of the increasing suspicions. seb then voted using only nureins's arguments and abandoned his own. This shows to me that seb isn't as interested in putting together a case of his own as he'd like to let on. Compound this with a rather emotionally-based comment in 168,

Anyway, I would like Chuck to be lynched if I turn out innocent.

and his case looks still less logically-grounded. His admission in 98 comes to mind,

And also, sometimes I lie to pretend to be smarter, and thus more respected.

If this is true, you're also capable of lying to look more pro-town.

For the record, I've been in newbie games where a new player has been scummy and attracted al the attention, got lynched D1 and turned out to be town. So I have considered this possibility, and I'd at least be wary of lynching seb too quickly, without everyone having put down their opinion of him. But in this case I do believe there is actual scum-like behaviour behind the wall of petulance that we originally saw.

Incidentally, I do have opinions on the other players, and I'll hopefully get them down later today. But I'm sure you'll understand that seb was the one who caught my eye the most on my read through...

[seb456zig]

For the record, I've been in newbie games where a new player has been scummy and attracted al the attention, got lynched D1 and turned out to be town. So I have considered this possibility, and I'd at least be wary of lynching seb too quickly, without everyone having put down their opinion of him. But in this case I do believe there is actual scum-like behaviour behind the wall of petulance that we originally saw.

If you could, can you show me the link to some of these, it will help understand what and what not to do for future games.