Open 815: Forest Fire Redux [Endgame]

[Ydrasse]

like “i think this person is scum/has some bad takes/etc” and sees them voting someone and goes “well i wouldn’t be opposed but we should give them time but if it’s not good enough fine we can kill the slot.”

maybe it’s the fact child is interacting like that with someone they don’t trust and don’t consider the implications of said person voting someone else.

i’m trying to work out in my head if child/johnny could be together based on that because it feels like child doesn’t really want johnny dead but is willing to bite the bullet given his absence/lack of control on the game.

[Ydrasse]

VOTE: child

[Ydrasse]

that probably looks weird in the context of prism’s last posts but it was those posts which inspired me to read child if anyone was wondering.

[Infinity 324]

The only thing stopping me from putting child in my PoE is a level of newbie earnestness that I get from their posts, idk if you have thoughts

[Child of Fairies]

I mean, it's been a pretty weird day for wagons since one of the two main wagons just isn't here to defend himself, so it's not like there's much that can really be done with anybody that's not Prism right now. I'm probably overdue for a reads list, though, so here:

Lukewarm - Likely Town. Once the meat of the game started I feel like his conclusions have been rational mostly, and it doesn't feel like there's any ulterior motives behind what he's saying. Interactions with and about T3 take up a surprising amount of his early posts, and it's interesting to see his read on T3 develop as he acknowledges that he's paranoid about it. I don't see anything at all in him that would make me think he's scum.

Infinity 234 - Likely Town. Same deal as Lukewarm, I feel like her conclusions have been mostly genuine and lacking in a feeling that she's got an ulterior motive to her. Her reaction to Prism blowing up at her also feels more towny than not to me, although I'm having trouble explaining why.

Hectic - Town Lean. This is an interesting slot because most of Hectic's content has been dealing with specifically Prism, so a lot of my read on the slot is dependant on Prism. I think if Prism flips scum Hectic's town, and given my thoughts on Prism I'd be inclined to give this a town lean.

Ydrasse - Null/Town Lean? A fair amount of her posts feel toneless to me, but when she makes posts with more than one line in them they feel sorta towny to me, as though she's actually trying to solve instead of looking like she is. Maybe there's a world where ydra/prism are both scum but that would largely depend on Prism flipping scum so it's not really much to talk about here.

Fidget - Could honestly go either way? This is an interesting one. I find a lot of Fidget's posts fairly towny but the conclusions she comes to in some of them feel less than genuine, such as voting Prism for her 1v1 with Hectic and then later asking if it felt "Obviously TvT" to anybody else. Her sorta-tunnel on Lukewarm is pretty interesting since it's an angle nobody else seems to have, but it could be coming from either alignment for different reasons so she's pretty null for me.

T3/Johnny - Scumlean both for similar reasons, high vote count to low content ratio. There's very little in T3's iso that isn't just a vote or an agreement with whatever the page consensus is, which also leads to a fair amount of flipflopping ("I don't totally get the case on Prism > my top 3 scum are Johnny Child Prism > My gut is telling me Prism is town" in 3 posts in a row in his iso is certainly something). T3 reads opportunistic scum to me, but since everybody else seems to be content to have him as a backburner read right now I don't see much of an incentive to try and push on him.

same with Johnny to a lesser degree because he's pretty much not here right now and I'd rather wait for him to come back or the slot to be force replaced so we can properly sort him rather than quickelimming, which helps nobody but scum as it denies town any sort of possible information. There just isn't really much of anything to say about him until he comes back, so here we are.

Prism - Scumlean. This isn't meant to be a post about Prism so I'll keep it short but aside from what I've already said I think the threat to self-hammer, followed by bringing up a game where she did self-hammer as town to clear herself, and then following that by saying she won't self-hammer here makes me feel like she's got a role that can't and she's just trying to bluff to take the heat off of her.

[Prism]

To be more specific: Are you saying that I would be unable to restrain myself from selfhammering as town, or that I would not

want

to restrain myself to begin with?

[Infinity 324]

Ydrasse - Null/Town Lean? A fair amount of her posts feel toneless to me, but when she makes posts with more than one line in them they feel sorta towny to me, as though she's actually trying to solve instead of looking like she is.

This feels like an observation someone would usually only come to if they're genuinely trying to sort someone else

[Prism]

Also I literally said "I will not selfhammer ever" to spur someone to revote me after unvoting specifically in fear of a selfhammer.

I won what I wanted with an unvote only to throw it back is a...viable but interesting thesis

[Prism]

I'm not convinced they're town but I'd vote both Johnny and Hectic over Child atm

[Prism]

At the risk of committing suicide, right after I've gotten out of the fire and successfully pulled more diverse content out of Child:

VOTE: Hectic

Rereading our initial interaction I am still skeptical of both the initial read on me and the followups. I do not like his jumping on Lukewarm's reaction to the 1v1, which was by far the most town of the bunch. Later, he rereads the marathon game I pointed out and shifts this to a townlean. At no point does the fact that I was the one to highlight this to begin with faze him. 175 was mostly in line with what I expected him to do after I stand firm in 172, which was to go more on offense. 348 is still trash.

160 seems to be trying to shake me rather than a genuine attempt to sort me and I still feel like the very early game was a lot more focused on hitting tonal markers, ex. with Ydrasse/Fidget, than doing any real sorting.

I strongly feel as though he unvotes in absence of a deeper take based off what I have seen in Binding of Isaac.

[Prism]

I would still favor a Johnny vote as a more likely compromise; my fear now is something more like Hectic/Ydrasse going through the motions than legitimately sorting each other.

[Prism]

Lastly, I legitimately don't know what he's thinking with the confidence point given that he knew I was willow1, unless he just completely forgot Happy Face Mafia existed. He was never getting away with lying about that as scum and it clearly did not factor into his read on me at all as town.

[Ydrasse]

i think my read on hectic is buried deep in having a lot of experience with him and having played with him enough to know that the frustrations he felt for how you were pushing him were genuine in a way i don't think he would be able to replicate as scum (also because i don't think he thinks to do that unless he's specifically playing around me and assume this is something that i'll expect from him which is like. a lot of layers to plan ahead i feel like?)

[Infinity 324]

Ydrasse talk to me about child

[Ydrasse]

still chewing on the reads list, not so impressed but don't know who else to vote, but, well...

[Prism]

To be blunt, that reads like a crock of shit to me because that reaction didn't look genuine to begin with and even if it hypothetically is it's so trivial to fake that I probably do it with alcohol poisoning.

Agree to disagree but I cannot emphasize how vehemently I disagree with that paragraph from top to bottom.

[Infinity 324]

still chewing on the reads list, not so impressed but don't know who else to vote, but, well...

I feel like she tried to stare into your soul

[Prism]

i think my read on hectic is buried deep in having a lot of experience with him and having played with him enough to know that the frustrations he felt for how you were pushing him were genuine in a way i don't think he would be able to replicate as scum (also because i don't think he thinks to do that unless he's specifically playing around me and assume this is something that i'll expect from him which is like. a lot of layers to plan ahead i feel like?)

Have you considered that the target of that reaction was almost certainly myself?

I'm just blown away by the idea that Hectic can't fake frustration/fear of a tunnel a la Scumsman/early Folly. I have not seen Hectic scum to date, and do not believe this assertion to be true, but if it were he would not only be the worst DC winner in the history of the site but

worse at the alignment than the site average

This is just ridiculously narrow & treats Hectic like a brick, and this does not change even if is in fact town.

[Prism]

The qualifier "in a way" for justifying the genuineness of his frustration has me so insanely tilted

[Prism]

If it was something about his reads or progressions I don't think I would mind as much but the idea that his reaction to me/emotion displayed is out of range is appalling to me. If that universe is somehow the case I want to live in a different one.

[Prism]

Okay, sorry, I've calmed down a bit, I know that was harsh. That idea offended the side of me that views mafia very aesthetically, which isn't as relevant to what Hectic actually is in practice.

[MURDERCAT]

Vote Count 1.9

[3] Prism: Hectic, Child of Fairies, Lukewarm
[1] Fidget: JohnnyFarrar
[1] JohnnyFarrar: T3
[1] Hectic: Prism
[1] Child of Fairies: Ydrasse
[0] Infinity 324:
[0] T3:
[0] Ydrasse:
[0] Lukewarm:

Not voting: Fidget, Infinity 324

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline expires in

(expired on 2021-06-12 21:58:45).

Mod Notes:
- Hectic is V/LA until the 9th
- JohnnyFarrar is V/LA until the 10th

[T3]

Honestly Prisms last few posts have pinged me as town, not sure why though. At this point with johnny on vla I'll hope he comes back and obvtowns because I don't want to lim this slot while he's on vla.

VOTE: child

I'll hammer Prism if the only thing stopping me from voting her is my gut and the general consensus is she is scum but fror now I'd rather not.

[Infinity 324]

I think prism is town atp

VOTE: johnny

[Infinity 324]

Mostly just because I feel like my gut read is probably based on prism exerting some level of control over the narrative in the game and I feel like that's decently likely something she'd do as town as well, and as I mentioned earlier she wasn't really trying to control the discussion at a key spot when she was under a lot of pressure. It's still possible that it was just correct to step back a bit as scum under that situation and she recognized that, but I kind of doubt that was the right situation to step back in. It's still a weak townread atm, maybe I'd get something out of reading a past scumgame of hers but I'm not as sure as she is that that'd be productive.