Open 811 - Lovers and Losers (New Game+) [Game Over]

[yessiree]

VC 2.13

With 8 votes, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Bambi Jay (3)

- LlamaFluff, RationalMadman, Bambi Jay

LlamaFluff (1)

- Anastasia

Note voting - T-Bone, Kerset, Bingle, VFP

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-06-02 16:00:00)

[RationalMadman]

I am extremely confused what Llama is saying about me at this point. Bambi has voted herself to frame me and Ana and Llama thinks that therefore scum is Ana and I.

Llama is correct to say today can now become Ana and myself vs Bambi but is completely incorrect that the pair with Bambi is us. Bambi is scum trying an extremely strange gambit for absolutely no gain. I have actually got no clue which of the pairs has someone that would suggest it and think Bambi possibly did this on her own accord. Based on reactions, VFP seems to have less idea about how the logic should work from a Town POV even being confused about why for Bambi to be Town, me and Ana need to be Scum due to lack of the other pair hammering and therefore is actually more likely to not be Bambi's partner. This may explain also why Bambi so easily and readily voted Ana (after voting me for show instead) with Tbone and VFP on day phase one, she was planning to win by her pair appearing townier on my flip.

Kerset has reacted relaxed and humoured at Bambi's play which is extremely odd to me. Bambi also did this after Kerset began to question her.

So, I want it known that I am now reading a team of Bambi and Bingle's pair.

[RationalMadman]

I already said I'll indulge you if the others agree first. It was my post before that one. I assumed you could read.

Also going off for a bit be back later.

I can read (maybe) but you are dead here. From what you are claiming there is still zero chance I am scum unless Ana/RM is scum first. Its you or them as scum dying here. Thats the only options. No clue how we got this lucky, but im not going to look a gift horse in the mouth.

How is this lucky? Are you saying me and Ana are scum?

[Bingle]

How is this lucky? Are you saying me and Ana are scum?

No. He's saying that the 1v1 is no longer Bambi/Llama but Bambi/AnaRM. Which is true. Bambi is confscum or you're scum. Theoretically, Bambi/RM/Ana is possible from the POV of all of the other players as town, so Llama never gets voted out today.

[Bingle]

@Kerset: Sorry if you already have, but did you give thoughts on this?

TBone/VFP, apologies if I missed it but do you agree that Ana/LF probably isn't S/S?

Actually, I'd kind of like a pair analysis for every pair from everyone.

AnaRM LF doesn't make sense to me because of the consistent push at BoP'ng LF from Ana, both yesterday and today.

I don't think AnaRM Bambi is much more likely given the mutual personality PL bullshit early D1 from RM and Bambi. That seems needlessly toxic as scum theater, and I don't think scum would resort to that when there were multiple other options.

TBoneVFP/Bambi and TBoneVFP/Fluff both seem viable as of 22

[RationalMadman]

How is this lucky? Are you saying me and Ana are scum?

No. He's saying that the 1v1 is no longer Bambi/Llama but Bambi/AnaRM. Which is true. Bambi is confscum or you're scum. Theoretically, Bambi/RM/Ana is possible from the POV of all of the other players as town, so Llama never gets voted out today.

Okay and how is that lucky from his POV? I am Town this is not luckier at all.

[RationalMadman]

This makes absolutely no sense to me, in terms of why Bambi has done this. It's an insane move that has one benefit only (as scum) since it distracted from the natural progressin of discussions and reads.

The chaos may benefit somewhat if she felt her team was about to be somehow exposed but that doesn't help me work out precisely which it was.

[Kerset]

So assuming they don't hammer me (which I doubt they will) I instantly proved to you that not only is Llama only with those 2, but also my general theory of trusting you all over Ration and Ana.

How the heck vanilla townie just say something like this. 'Maybe i just gamethrowed but my gut says that likely not'

[Kerset]

I think the better way is to look at Bambi.

Bambi cant be scum with:

Me (duh)
VFP/Tbone (Game would be over)
Bingle/Kerset (Game would be over)

So Bambi is 100% scum

It just depends with who.

I give all the credit to them for trying a gambit, but when its a logic puzzle... the ex-open queue list mod is a horrible person to play it off against.

What? I makes no sense. You can't be scum with me or VFP/Tbone not bambi.

[Kerset]

Kerset has reacted relaxed and humoured at Bambi's play which is extremely odd to me. Bambi also did this after Kerset began to question her.

If bone comes in and instahammers then i will put all the blame on you bambi for not letting us solve. Neither me or bingle declared the definite scum yet.

rly?

[Kerset]

How is this lucky? Are you saying me and Ana are scum?

No. He's saying that the 1v1 is no longer Bambi/Llama but Bambi/AnaRM. Which is true. Bambi is confscum or you're scum. Theoretically, Bambi/RM/Ana is possible from the POV of all of the other players as town, so Llama never gets voted out today.

You proved that two buttons does the same thing but it doesn't imply that we have to press the second one.

[Kerset]

@RM how is 1334 a towny mindset?

ignored

RM you said that bambi is scum for ignoring the question, didn't you?

[Kerset]

@Kerset: Sorry if you already have, but did you give thoughts on this?

TBone/VFP, apologies if I missed it but do you agree that Ana/LF probably isn't S/S?

Actually, I'd kind of like a pair analysis for every pair from everyone.

AnaRM LF doesn't make sense to me because of the consistent push at BoP'ng LF from Ana, both yesterday and today.

I don't think AnaRM Bambi is much more likely given the mutual personality PL bullshit early D1 from RM and Bambi. That seems needlessly toxic as scum theater, and I don't think scum would resort to that when there were multiple other options.

TBoneVFP/Bambi and TBoneVFP/Fluff both seem viable as of 22

1375

[RationalMadman]

@RM how is 1334 a towny mindset?

ignored

RM you said that bambi is scum for ignoring the question, didn't you?

the question you asked makes no sense to me. What is not Towny about Llama's linked post?

[RationalMadman]

Kerset has reacted relaxed and humoured at Bambi's play which is extremely odd to me. Bambi also did this after Kerset began to question her.

If bone comes in and instahammers then i will put all the blame on you bambi for not letting us solve. Neither me or bingle declared the definite scum yet.

rly?

You were laughing in other messages, you can deny it if you want and try to twist what I said. If you really believe Bambi is scum why aren't you voting her?

I fully know it, not just believe, thanks to time and situation and being in the voting position that I am. Ana fully will know it whenever she gets here. I hope you will hammer.

[Kerset]

@RM how is 1334 a towny mindset?

ignored

RM you said that bambi is scum for ignoring the question, didn't you?

the question you asked makes no sense to me. What is not Towny about Llama's linked post?

He refuses to give reads and call it not-useful for town.

[Kerset]

Actually I know a way to fuck over Ration if they're teamed with Llama. I just gotta prove the other 2 aren't his partners.

VOTE: Bambi

Team Bingle/Kerset and team Tbone/VFP, just confirm you guys are on at the same time to show you didn't quick hammer me and therefore aren't partners with Llama.

I'm off to work so I'll unvote myself tomorrow if we're still playing and my gamble pays off.

lol

If bone comes in and instahammers then i will put all the blame on you bambi for not letting us solve. Neither me or bingle declared the definite scum yet.

If bone comes in and instahammers then i will put all the blame on you bambi for not letting us solve. Neither me or bingle declared the definite scum yet.

We lose if you don't trust me over Llama anyway. I'm doing something called Trust. I'd lose anyway if Ration and Ana are town cuz Ration literally never unvotes me if he was town cuz he hates me.

I'm working with what I got
.

Me, you, Ana, bingle -> wait for deadline and we get llama voted out by the rules. It is possible...

@RM how is 1334 a towny mindset?

ignored

I claim neutral roles just to have a good time.

link?

Kerset has reacted relaxed and humoured at Bambi's play which is extremely odd to me. Bambi also did this after Kerset began to question her.

[Kerset]

You were laughing in other messages, you can deny it if you want and try to twist what I said. If you really believe Bambi is scum why aren't you voting her?

I fully know it, not just believe, thanks to time and situation and being in the voting position that I am. Ana fully will know it whenever she gets here. I hope you will hammer.

Which messages? My first reaction was 'lol', because it looked ridiculous. After i processed what happened, i was serious.

You shouldn't confuse bad play with scummy play. Just because something is bad it doesn't mean it came from scum. Sometimes townies are insane and the true investigator job is to separate insanity from scum tactics.

[RationalMadman]

You were laughing in other messages, you can deny it if you want and try to twist what I said. If you really believe Bambi is scum why aren't you voting her?

I fully know it, not just believe, thanks to time and situation and being in the voting position that I am. Ana fully will know it whenever she gets here. I hope you will hammer.

Which messages? My first reaction was 'lol', because it looked ridiculous. After i processed what happened, i was serious.

You shouldn't confuse bad play with scummy play. Just because something is bad it doesn't mean it came from scum. Sometimes townies are insane and the true investigator job is to separate insanity from scum tactics.

Since I am voting Bambi, I know it's scum move. You want me to unvote like a coward or something? Bambi has proven she is Scum to me (and Ana, it's inevitable). We must absolutely know this due to lack of pair-hammer. The longer this goes, the more blatant. It's crystal clear to me... So, I could have only justified and unvote early on hut now I know. Bambi made an absolutely insane gambit that only benefits her as Scum because it rushes the day and reduces reads and discussions of teams at least for now (she is hoping somehow this chaos evens out scumtells amongst others for doubting to vote her).

I have total knowledge now that she is Scum, not just estimation. No hammer... We can wait forever...

[RationalMadman]

@RM how is 1334 a towny mindset?

ignored

RM you said that bambi is scum for ignoring the question, didn't you?

the question you asked makes no sense to me. What is not Towny about Llama's linked post?

He refuses to give reads and call it not-useful for town.

In that post he is discussing the game and issues with its design for scumtells not being that leak-prone. That seems Towny to me.

[T-Bone]

Thought on this T-Bone?

And yes, town Bambi should always want RM / Ana as the lim here.

I don't quite see why Llama thinks we should think he can't be scum with Kerset/Bingle. He keeps presenting "I only have one possible scum team, Bambi has three" which feels very misleading and makes me think that's the point.

[T-Bone]

I think I favour Llama over Bambi as town here.
But I'll wait until my T-Bone gives input. He's the brains.

So why is it me or Bambi for you? Isnt it actually Bambi v RM/Ana?

Like this right here is manipulate as fuck. No it's not Bambi vs RM/Ana.

[T-Bone]

From our perspective, VFP, the scum teams would most likely be Bambi/Kerset/Jingle and Llama/Ana/RM.

The logic breaks down for me when you really think about a scum team that features RM and Bambi. What is RM's plan here? To be so unlikeable and so unsuccessful with his bus we vote Llama out of spite?

I think I'm convinced Llama is scum. His arguments about who can be scum with who feel misleading, and I feel like he's doing it to try and draw out the wrong conclusions, rather than trying to get the rest of us to critically think about it.

[LlamaFluff]

I think I favour Llama over Bambi as town here.
But I'll wait until my T-Bone gives input. He's the brains.

So why is it me or Bambi for you? Isnt it actually Bambi v RM/Ana?

Like this right here is manipulate as fuck. No it's not Bambi vs RM/Ana.

How is Bambi alive right now if the scum team contains myself but not RM/Ana? The only answer would be that scum actually just hasnt been able to coordinate a hammer, but everyone has been posting so... the more logical conclusion is just that Bambi either is scum or scum *cant* hammer town Bambi

There are four potential pairs that fit this gamestate. Every pair that contains me also contains RM/Ana. Not every pair that contains RM/Ana contains myself. While it likely ends in the same spot either way, voting me is reckless because it loses the game in three different scenarios. Unless from your spot you are actively arguing that its me + Bingle/Kerset, the better vote is RM/Ana over me because you can be wrong about me and the game would continue.

Pretty much from everyone elses perspective:

Some of the pairings that contain RM/Ana contain Llama
All of the pairings that contain Llama contain RM/Ana

If you are going to make a vote based on that, how am I the vote again?

[Kerset]

If we don't do VT now then we need to do it tomorrow anyway. Game-wise it doesn't matter.