Open 811 - Lovers and Losers (New Game+) [Game Over]

[yessiree]

VC 2.5

With 8 votes, it takes 5 to eliminate.

LlamaFluff (2)

- Anastasia, Bambi Jay

Bambi Jay (1)

- LlamaFluff

Note voting - T-Bone, Kerset, RationalMadman, Bingle, VFP

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-06-02 16:00:00)

[RationalMadman]

Oh damn, I just understood what it meant after I submitted that. The wincon for Scum with 2VT eliminated doesn't require Goon to be alive. I just checked to understand.

[RationalMadman]

Sorry Bingle, I understand what you said now.

[RationalMadman]

Edit: it's in the rules that first to 4 votes and it stays tied goes to whoever gets there first. I also said that in an earlier posts but we don't really like to read each other's post so I understand you not seeing it.

Where did you say this? I have read your posts but I admit sometimes I skimread.

If you don't answer my question to you that Llama has already answered then I absolutely will vote you.

[Bingle]

If players fail to get a majority vote before the deadline, plurality vote will be applied
In plurality voting, the player with the most votes is eliminated. In case of ties, the player who reached the most votes first will be eliminated

Feel free to get confirmation, but this is 2 and 3 under voting and both Llama and I helped yes workshop the setup prior to the game starting.

I'm actually pretty confident in a Bambi/TBone/VFP solve assuming I'm right about RM/Ana town.

The TBone/Klick Llama interactions red more like buddying than an attempt to sort. RM is significantly less unreasonable sounding now that I've had a chance to cool off from the lover's PT is a functional masonry shitshow, and Bambi and TBone both come across as trying to rile him up in multiple different places.

TBone's townread of Bambi was very early and very underdeveloped, but he never actually addressed that when asked.

[Bambi Jay]

I voted you/Ana because I dislike you and would've rather have solved between the other 2 lovers instead. Sorry to Ana but legit at that point even if I wanted to, you just... You were aggressive and scummy and calling me scum continuously that I just said fuck it when Tbone and them changed their minds to kill you I agreed instantly.

I dunno if you got another question that's the one that stuck out in the ISO.

[Bingle]

Actually, I'd kind of like a pair analysis for every pair from everyone.

btw

@Bambi and RM.

[Bambi Jay]

Well my opinion from my earlier solve I still think is true about Ration and Ana having to be disorganized town is probably legit. It would also be ballsy if Ana was scum and instantly put down her vote and put Ration in an uneviable desicion to go against his partner.

Maybe I'm just wrong

maybe you're all right and Llama really is town and I'm being an idiot

It's not like I can get anyone to vote for him anyway so why does it even matter

I mean I'm leaning that way so...I'm listening.

Honestly this scares me depending on interpretation. So my first obvious reading was Tbone comforting Ana and agreeing with her. But my paranoia came back and thought he might've meant it as in he ALSO was starting to townread Llama instead.

I mean I followed Bingle and Llama onto Smart and assuming I'm right I followed the scumteam and elimed a townie... But then that means Tbone and VFP followed me instead of staying on Ana. I know VFP replaced in and mostly was following me but their first instinct coming into this game was to vote me out until Tbone said not to.

If I read into this conspiracy theory style that would mean VFP wanted to vote and kill the VT that the other 2 lover pairs suspected but Tbone told them they were pocketing me. Tbone was good to go on Ana and RM but suddenly switched to the VTs becuz I switched to em. Tbone wouldn't just follow me so easily tho? I dunno. I haven't proved anything like a big brain solve I literally only voted there cuz I misread Llama's post as from Tbone.

Obviously this ends the debate if you or Kerset vote me now then I know your the bad guys and/or we lose the game on my elim. But if my brain is saying this is Tbone ready to pounce and get Ana to vote me and win... Well that would suck.

So before paranoia I had you as confirmed scum, but with paranoia I'll listen to a case from ya that told us why they were scum instead. I might've ignored you and Kerset earlier having a case, but if you got a case that helps me prove it's Llama and those 2 I'll read it.

[T-Bone]

Careful Tbone he'll put you as my partner if you keep that up.

Careful Tbone he'll put you as my partner if you keep that up.

He already did!

This is very cheeky if S/S.

How cheeky is your scumgame TBone?

Very, but I'm cheeky as either alignment. If you're asking 'does T-Bone make posts so he can quote them after winning to dunk on people's the answer is no. I do all my dunking in game as a matter of course tyvm

[T-Bone]

Re:1307 Bambi. As I know I'm town optimal play for me is to see what the other two pairs get up to, since one of those pairs is scum. So no, there's not a risk of me to pounce on you or Llama at this stage.

[T-Bone]

It comes down to basically two things for me. One, I gotta see what the other pairs do because I know one of them is scum. Two, I'm deciding whether Bambi reversed pocketed me on Day 1, but the only person I can reliably discuss that with is VFP. I know my case for Llama, and I know my case for Bambi.

So, I mean, be concerned with me if you want, dislike that I want to reserve the elimination potential for myself (or convince the other town pair to mislim without needing my vote). I'mma be over here trying to solve the game.

[Kerset]

TBone's townread of Bambi was very early and very underdeveloped, but he never actually addressed that when asked.

He did revaluate that it could be due to pocket.

[Kerset]

So llama, who are bambi partners?

[LlamaFluff]

So llama, who are bambi partners?

Cant see how this matters today.

As stated earlier in one of these games, Wednesday and Thursday are worst days of week for me to get stuff done. Will probably get caught up Friday.

[Bingle]

Cant see how this matters today.

Because you now have 3 viable scumteams from your POV and how you look at said scumteams is probably the most reliable way to read you.

Like... The only answer I get from you and Bambi fighting is which one of you has more charisma/WIM/rhetorical grasp on the situation. That's NAI. Your perspective there is that you want the other person eliminated.

If you work on a solve in the other three, then there's actually AI shit to examine (Like whether a read is made up or genuine) and in the case that we don't lose today it can only be helpful tomorrow.

[Bambi Jay]

Having a 1v1 is way more stressful then it looks.

[RationalMadman]

Actually, I'd kind of like a pair analysis for every pair from everyone.

btw

@Bambi and RM.

What does this mean, I thought I gave this already when being voted off.

[Kerset]

Cant see how this matters today.

Because you now have 3 viable scumteams from your POV and how you look at said scumteams is probably the most reliable way to read you.

Like... The only answer I get from you and Bambi fighting is which one of you has more charisma/WIM/rhetorical grasp on the situation. That's NAI. Your perspective there is that you want the other person eliminated.

If you work on a solve in the other three, then there's actually AI shit to examine (Like whether a read is made up or genuine) and in the case that we don't lose today it can only be helpful tomorrow.

exactly

[VFP]

Sorry had bad Internet due to weather.

[VFP]

So where is everyone currently at with Bambi / Llama?

[LlamaFluff]

Cant see how this matters today.

Because you now have 3 viable scumteams from your POV and how you look at said scumteams is probably the most reliable way to read you.

Like... The only answer I get from you and Bambi fighting is which one of you has more charisma/WIM/rhetorical grasp on the situation. That's NAI. Your perspective there is that you want the other person eliminated.

If you work on a solve in the other three, then there's actually AI shit to examine (Like whether a read is made up or genuine) and in the case that we don't lose today it can only be helpful tomorrow.

exactly

Nope. Its now at best WIFOM. Its actually probably detrimental to an extent because a wrong read from me probably loses us the game right here. Scum get ammo, town can get paranoid or somewhat OMGUSy. As stated many times, any tells between VT pool and Lover pool are weak at best outside of maybe today where scum will take a win if they can.

[VFP]

Cant see how this matters today.

It helps to see the mindset you're in.
I'm interested to know, and no if you say me and T-Bone that won't influence where I vote.

[T-Bone]

I mean, it might influence where I vote

[Anastasia]

I'm ok with Bambi being elimmed here.

If she flips town i'll get to say i told you so

if she flips scum i'll get to avoid disaster and blame

I am so good at this game.

[Bingle]

Nope. Its now at best WIFOM. Its actually probably detrimental to an extent because a wrong read from me probably loses us the game right here. Scum get ammo, town can get paranoid or somewhat OMGUSy. As stated many times, any tells between VT pool and Lover pool are weak at best outside of maybe today where scum will take a win if they can.

Theory chain:

Today the motivation of {LF, Bambi} is to get {Bambi, LF} elimmed, regardless of alignment.
Whichever of {LF, Bambi} is town also has the motivation of being able to find scum in the outside pool.
Whichever of {LF, Bambi} is scum also has the motivation of being able to leave their partners as looking town if they are the elimination today.
Point 2 is a stronger motivation than point 3, as it will always be relevant to that player.
If today does not end in a scumwin, whoever is town in {LF, Bambi} will be the most trusted voice for the rest of the game, and, more importantly, will definitely be able to post.

Why should we not look at the sole aspect of the game where you and Bambi have inherently different motivations? Do you disagree with any of this?