Mini 671 - Dwarf Fortress - Game Over!

[CoheedCambria09]

I'm not jumping out of the spotlight, or deflection. The sentence was true, I was pointing it out, hardly a deflection. And I'm not jumping out the spotlight either. I unvoted because the vote in hindsight was bad and didnt have a solid enough case around it.

[iLord]

Pointing it out = deflection for your suspicion to another player.

I am not buying the "Oops I was wrong) excuse for one second - that's jumping out of the spotlight.

[Ramus]

Meta - in the last mini theme I played in modded by Claus I was scum in a group of three - we all had safe claims - one very safe, one medium, one risky.

And your point is? This game is entirely different.

Same mod, same game-type. It would be remiss of me not to mention it.

Whatever, it's your view, but really out guessing the mod? It just doesn't work.


And CoCam, you should better start building a strong case around someone because you're looking pretty useless right now and even worse with that half attempt at excusing yourself.

[Cyberbob]

cyberbob's four person accusation is a valid point

I fail to see how. All I was doing was getting myself caught up on the game and pointing out the scummy actions I noticed. You're confusing "accusing" with "directing attention to", which are very different beasts indeed.

Or would you rather I let one or two people's moves slide for the sake of avoiding this "shotgun approach"?

[Cyberbob]

EBWOP:

However, as far as insults go, I guess that's a part of cyberbob that we'll have to endure.

I'll thank you not to take one outburst and go on to say it's something I always do. I don't see any such mention of Timeater, which I would if you were at least being consistent.

[Tuberkulos]

I'm not blatantly fishing. I believe in game as flavor based as this that scum would need to have been given safe claims. However, if timeater's role matches my description of a cook, then i'd claim as well. That way, we'll have two cleared townies, making the game significantly harder than scum as they either have to waste night kills going through us and protective roles, or keep our votes active in a smaller pool of suspects.

Alternatively, he could claim differently to me, in which case one of us should be lynched, and you get yourselves a scum for the cost of a townie. Fair trade i think.

I would like to discuss other players before we should even think of claiming.

I'm not jumping out of the spotlight, or deflection. The sentence was true, I was pointing it out, hardly a deflection. And I'm not jumping out the spotlight either. I unvoted because the vote in hindsight was bad and didnt have a solid enough case around it.

At the time of your vote, Pesco's poor reasons for voting Timeater was enough for you. Tell me. What made you change your mind? I would also like to hear your reasons (Pesco's reasons) with your own words for why you voted Timeater.


My view on current players:

-

iLord.

Is probably my personal favorite right now. Reasonable and not easily persuaded. I consider him town, but I wouldn't be too suprised if he flipped scum.

-

Timeater.

He seems townish to me, even though his early claim could be discussed. I wished he had waited with the claim, but from his point of view, I understand why he chose not to.

-

Cyberbob.

Hard to tell. Said that we should discuss why Timeater was the new target, instead of me. But did nothing but bringing it up.

-

Roffman.

I don't really get his logic all the time. I don't consider him pro-town.

-

Mariyta.

Haven't contributed a bit. Oppertunistic, and a very silly reason for unvoting me. Could be a scared townie. Neither town or scum, so far.

-

Ramus.

Haven't really got a good look of him yet. He definitely can't count.

-

Coheed.

Oppertunistic when he voted Timeater and when he realised that it could look a little suspicious, he withdrew his vote because that would give everyone what they want, making him look even more suspicious to me. Scummy looking.

-

andersonw.

This guy haven't really cought my eye. Haven't withdrew his first vote on Timeater which puzzles me a bit.

-

Pesco47.

I would like to hear some reasonable reasons behind his vote on Timeater. Town or scum, could flip either way.

-

Verbal.

Is this guy playing?


@ Andersnw: What's your reasons for having your vote on Timeater? If I haven't missed something, you haven't unvoted a single time, right?

@ Pesco47: You admit that you gave no clear reasons. So, what are your reasons for voting on Timeater?

@ Cyberbob:

- Ooh, Tuberkulos' post 42 is scumcumcum....
- Nicely rounded off with a dose of OMGUS in post 44. Good Show

Tuberkulos

- about as solidly scum in my eyes as you can get at this early stage of the game. Which isn't huge, mind, but it's definitely there.

Is this still where you stand?

[Cyberbob]

-

Cyberbob.

Hard to tell. Said that we should discuss why Timeater was the new target, instead of me. But did nothing but bringing it up.

I said that was one of the issues that should be of interest, not the only one. I'm still happy with my vote on you.

@ Cyberbob:

- Ooh, Tuberkulos' post 42 is scumcumcum....
- Nicely rounded off with a dose of OMGUS in post 44. Good Show

Tuberkulos

- about as solidly scum in my eyes as you can get at this early stage of the game. Which isn't huge, mind, but it's definitely there.

Is this still where you stand?

Yes, as you haven't done anything since then to change my mind (or anything else, really).

[Tuberkulos]

Well, I have explained my reasons behind them and what I thought when I wrote them. I guess you consider them as rubbish? If so, could you explain why?

[Pesco47]

My reasons for voting given here.

[Pesco47]

Rereading from the very beginning again, this post actually sounds like Tim was voting Cyber because Cyber didn't find Roffman scummy (admitted as a ragevote here. I want clarification on why Tim has such tunnel vision against Roffman,

with no metagaming as reasons

.

I intended to pay closer attention to the Tuber discussion in my read, but the size of the flamewar proved too big for me to pick out much.

What I have noticed is that Tim and Tuber have been somewhat mutually defensive of each other. They read each other as pro-town and declare the same people scummy. Something is not quite right here.

[Mariyta]

-

Mariyta.

Haven't contributed a bit. Oppertunistic, and a very silly reason for unvoting me. Could be a scared townie. Neither town or scum, so far.

Where do you get scared from? Anyway, I haven't had time to play, so I've asked for a replacement. *waves*

[Tuberkulos]

My reasons for voting given here.

Missed that, my misstake. His jumpiness indeed seems a bit suspicious. Cyber's FoS even led to personal assaults (from both of them). But I do not consider his posts as "fluffy cotton candy". So far neutral to me. If Timeater is about to get lynched though, I might reconsider and be willing to hear Roffman's claim.

Coheed is the most scummy looking player right now.

[Tuberkulos]

-

Mariyta.

Haven't contributed a bit. Oppertunistic, and a very silly reason for unvoting me. Could be a scared townie. Neither town or scum, so far.

Where do you get scared from? Anyway, I haven't had time to play, so I've asked for a replacement. *waves*

Just saying that you could be scared of getting lycnhed, so you vote some one who is close of being lynched. You have no reason to be scared, but people have been more illogical.

I don't think you are scared, just saying that you

could be

. As for now, I don't know what to think of you.

[Tuberkulos]

-

Mariyta.

Haven't contributed a bit. Oppertunistic, and a very silly reason for unvoting me. Could be a scared townie. Neither town or scum, so far.

Where do you get scared from? Anyway, I haven't had time to play, so I've asked for a replacement. *waves*

Just saying that you could be scared of getting lycnhed, so you vote some one who is close of being lynched. You have no reason to be scared, but people have been more illogical.

I don't think you are scared, just saying that you

could be

. As for now, I don't know what to think of you.

[Claus]

I'm searching for a replacement for Mariyta, and prodding Verbal.

[iLord]

Coheed doesn't read like scared, panicking townie - he reads like scared, panicking scum.

Townies under pressure either ignore it, explode, or break down. Scum under pressure could do the same things (especially if they are skilled players), but they also have a tendency to back away and to attack others, which is exactly what Coheed did. Townies who are afraid of being lynched tend away from deflection and more at emotional outbursts.

For example, Town or Scum Coheed under pressure could start screaming at the town, but only Scum Coheed would attempt to deflect and back away.

[Ramus]

cyberbob's four person accusation is a valid point

I fail to see how. All I was doing was getting myself caught up on the game and pointing out the scummy actions I noticed. You're confusing "accusing" with "directing attention to", which are very different beasts indeed.

Or would you rather I let one or two people's moves slide for the sake of avoiding this "shotgun approach"?

Shotgun approach? Either way, I prefer to focus my attention on one person at a time if I decide to get offensive. Maybe a second person tacked on if s/he is note worthy. If it's really necessary, I can always go back and get evidence from past posts.

EBWOP:

However, as far as insults go, I guess that's a part of cyberbob that we'll have to endure.

I'll thank you not to take one outburst and go on to say it's something I always do. I don't see any such mention of Timeater, which I would if you were at least being consistent.

Did I already mention him getting angry? Yay for more implied but not actually insults.

Coheed doesn't read like scared, panicking townie - he reads like scared, panicking scum.

Townies under pressure either ignore it, explode, or break down. Scum under pressure could do the same things (especially if they are skilled players), but they also have a tendency to back away and to attack others, which is exactly what Coheed did. Townies who are afraid of being lynched tend away from deflection and more at emotional outbursts.

For example, Town or Scum Coheed under pressure could start screaming at the town, but only Scum Coheed would attempt to deflect and back away.

Yeah, but wouldn't a scared townie also back down? After all, there's not pressure YET so there would be no reason to explode or breakdown. And he's not ignoring it, assuming he's townie, he could just be an easily swayed townie. Either way, he's still rather scummy at this point, but I'm still saying, a townie backing down is not unusual, especially the first day.

[iLord]

Townies scared of being lynched typically do not just back away immediately in an effort to save themselves, unless they're really new (read: 1st or 2nd game). They learn quickly that it doesn't work.

The "I'm just easily swayed" excuse the first excuse used in some fashion by most scum when they are caught jumping on a wagon.

[andersonw]

@ Andersnw: What's your reasons for having your vote on Timeater? If I haven't missed something, you haven't unvoted a single time, right?

Yeah, I never unrandom-voted.

Okay, the next few posts I make are probably going to be big, since I finally have some time to write stuff up (I had three school projects due this week)

[CoheedCambria09]

quote from ilord

Coheed doesn't read like scared, panicking townie - he reads like scared, panicking scum.

Townies under pressure either ignore it, explode, or break down. Scum under pressure could do the same things (especially if they are skilled players), but they also have a tendency to back away and to attack others, which is exactly what Coheed did. Townies who are afraid of being lynched tend away from deflection and more at emotional outbursts.

For example, Town or Scum Coheed under pressure could start screaming at the town, but only Scum Coheed would attempt to deflect and back away.

This is completely false. In a previous game(one of my first) I got into a bit of trouble and drew suspicion. I was town and since I was drawing bad attention I exploded. I completely lost it and all I did was make it worse. So I decide in this game that I'm gonna back off and let things cool down and all that happens is the exact same thing, people still suspect me. holy moley.

[andersonw]

Comments on current and previous posts:

Sometimes a lynch is reached just by random votes. This is

not

a good thing, but

sometimes

necessary. If no lynch is reached, we are still on sqaure one, with one town dead by day two. If a lynched is reached however, we are one or two men short, but atleast we are on sqaure two, with much more to analyze and discuss.

I don't agree with this, since if there is a completely random lynch, no information can be gained from it (except the people that were on the lynch, but if it was random, it doesn't say much about those people). We should never have a random lynch in any game.

Using ending the random phase as an excuse to vote is extremely scummy - I've seen many a scum do that.

I don't get how it is scummy, since if scum wanted to vote someone, wouldn't they use the random phase (not ending the random phase) as an excuse to vote? Also, I don't get what is the point of this statement, since I don't really see how it applies to Tuberkulos.

- Nicely rounded off with a dose of OMGUS in post 44. Good show.

I think Tuberkulos already explained his vote pretty thoroughly, and how it was not OMGUS.

Roffman&Cyberbob could be a likely scumteam, considering in post 91 he manages to absolve Roffman, attack me, agree with Roffman, and attack Tuber, attack Mariyta. That just doesn't sit right with me.

I don't know if I agree with your statement, but the reasoning behind this isn't right, because just because he thinks roffman is town doesn't mean that he's scum with him. I also don't get your "absolve Roffman" because he never was under much suspicion in the first place.



On the cyberbob-timeater argument: I'm not going to make an opinion on it, but just wanted to say that cyberbob was the first to "start" the insults, with this:

I can't quite decide whether you're deliberately misrepresenting me so much or whether you really are that stupid.

The post by timeater before that tried to be rational (sort of), but did not have any personal attacks. Although, his posts after that did.



iLord, please respond to this, since we cleared up the confusion of me not saying that quote

Also, the entire point of your argument seems to be that Tuberkulos was opportunistic to lynch a random townie, but to me, it seemed like any other random vote. He has also already explained that it was a random vote, but you're still pushing the case. Could you explain why (in detail) Tuberkulos's vote wasn't random?

@Timeater: about your trap, it seemed like you thought roffman was suspicious just because he voted you, because other people also disliked the idea but didn't vote for you, and you didn't comment much on them...

More coming later, after I finish a health assignment.

[Claus]

Knight of Cydonia replaces Mariyta, effective immediately.

Thanks, KoC!

[Tuberkulos]

quote from ilord

Coheed doesn't read like scared, panicking townie - he reads like scared, panicking scum.

Townies under pressure either ignore it, explode, or break down. Scum under pressure could do the same things (especially if they are skilled players), but they also have a tendency to back away and to attack others, which is exactly what Coheed did. Townies who are afraid of being lynched tend away from deflection and more at emotional outbursts.

For example, Town or Scum Coheed under pressure could start screaming at the town, but only Scum Coheed would attempt to deflect and back away.

This is completely false. In a previous game(one of my first) I got into a bit of trouble and drew suspicion. I was town and since I was drawing bad attention I exploded. I completely lost it and all I did was make it worse. So I decide in this game that I'm gonna back off and let things cool down and all that happens is the exact same thing, people still suspect me. holy moley.

Are you blaming us for thinking you look suspicious? Sure, we might misread and misinterpret you, but don't forget you have the outmost responsibility of how others read you.

Try to convince us that we are wrong with something else than refering to another game, where you obvoiusly failed to do so. And don't forget that to some people, one behaviour might seem scummy and to others it migth seem like something else. Just because

black

equals 1 the first time, doesn't mean that

white

equals -1 the other.

[CoheedCambria09]

I know its not the same, what I was trying to say with that is that his logic was wrong. Its all on the player what they do, theres no set of, If X does this then their Y and if X does this then their Z

[Pesco47]

You gave a pretty bad example to give us an impression by. The broadest definition of your latest post reads as 'No action can make a person scummy'.

iLord's logic is not perfect, but definitely not 'wrong'. He gave a generalised example of what made your recent moves scummy, while you defended by stating exceptions to the rule, very situational exceptions too.

The way you've defended yourself is pretty flailing-scummy to me.

Unvote, Vote CoCam