Mini 671 - Dwarf Fortress - Game Over!

[roffman]

@timeater: What powers do cooks have. I know, but do you?

[Ramus]

Also, quit with the appeal to emotion. Now, I'll ask:

Why did you feel the need to make this statement?

Mainly because I didn't want to sound submissive. Therefore, I guess I tacked that on so I didn't sound guilty. After all, it was just a misinterpretation, so I'll just call it that.

It was also because he was indeed using appeal to emotion and throwing insults at me without any real evidence to back it up, and I prefer not to have bad karma this early in the game.

[Claus]

Tantrum

From DwarfFortressWiki

Dwarves are fickle creatures, and when pressed to the breaking point of their happiness, they will tantrum. A tantruming dwarf may attack people and animals, destroy buildings, or throw things. The dwarf will receive happy thoughts from doing this. Those acts are generally considered a crime.

Dwarves will tantrum if they are at the "very unhappy" level of happiness or worse.

Vote Count!

Timeater 4 - Andersonw, roffman, Pesco47, CoheedCambria
CoheedCambria 2 - Verbal, iLord
Tuberkulos 1 - Cyberbob
Cyberbob 1 - Timeater

Not Voting

Ramus, Reborn, Tuberkulos, Mariyta

With 12 creatures alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

[Cyberbob]

Tantrum

From DwarfFortressWiki

Dwarves are fickle creatures, and when pressed to the breaking point of their happiness, they will tantrum. A tantruming dwarf may attack people and animals, destroy buildings, or throw things. The dwarf will receive happy thoughts from doing this. Those acts are generally considered a crime.

Dwarves will tantrum if they are at the "very unhappy" level of happiness or worse.

They won't for long if my Hammerer has anything to say about it. >:3

[iLord]

@timeater: What powers do cooks have. I know, but do you?

Tim: DO NOT ANSWER THIS.

Roffman, pardon my crudeness, but shut up.

Mainly because I didn't want to sound submissive. Therefore, I guess I tacked that on so I didn't sound guilty. After all, it was just a misinterpretation, so I'll just call it that.

It was also because he was indeed using appeal to emotion and throwing insults at me without any real evidence to back it up, and I prefer not to have bad karma this early in the game.

So you understand that there's no point, right?

It's not scummy, and it's just going to aggrevate him.

[Cyberbob]

Can't we all just stop being so fixated on this emotional crap and get back to discussing the actual game?

A few things that might be of interest:

- Tuberkulos' play
- The speed with which the Timeater wagon grew and the Tuber wagon shrunk

I know you're trying to help iLord, but the best thing we can honestly do right now is just to calm down and get back to discussing things properly. Here, I'll help.

I've pretty much been through why I think Tuber should be today's lynch, but I would like to comment on this rather sudden wagon flip from him to Timeater. In the space of less than a single page the Tuber wagon all but vanished and Timeater found himself gaining votes.

This one in particular stands out:

I also agree with pesco on this one that Timeater is the scummier looking of the two in that last babble

unvote

vote Timeater

Let's see...

- No reasoning of his own
- Apparent need to vote for

someone

who was involved in the argument despite there being a fair number of other people in the game (some of whom would have valid reasons for drawing a vote)
- A safe vote on an easy target

Yep, that one's looking pretty opportunistic to me.

FOS: CoheedCambria09

[Cyberbob]

@timeater: What powers do cooks have. I know, but do you?

Tim: DO NOT ANSWER THIS.

Agreed. Roffman, stop blatantly fishing (and was that a claim?).




Urgh, so much scummy behaviour going on.

[andersonw]

Just want to get this straightened out first, will post more later, when I've read what just happened in more detail.

iLord: First, I want to say that in post 47, you said that roffman's "bandwagoning" wasn't a bandwagon, he was just eager to start the day. Then, in post 74, you said that it was a bandwagon. Please explain.

Eager to start the day doesn't mean it's not a bandwagon.

Also, the entire point of your argument seems to be that Tuberkulos was opportunistic to lynch a random townie, but to me, it seemed like any other random vote. He has also already explained that it was a random vote, but you're still pushing the case. Could you explain why (in detail) Tuberkulos's vote wasn't random?

I didn't vote him for any particular reason. He did however indeed want an early wagon. But as he said himself, the first day is often just a "bandwagon-day". Let's just hope for a lucky hit.

Lucky Hit =/= random vote.

Lucky Hit = Random Wagon = Bad for town.

Since you're so good at math !

1. You said before that it was a "joke bandwagon", so you were implying that it wasn't a real bandwagon in that post.

2. I never said that third quote...

[Timeater]

Tim: DO NOT ANSWER THIS.

Roffman, pardon my crudeness, but shut up.

Lol, wasn't planning on it. Thanks for being protective? (I guess?)

I have no qualms about Ramus asking me 'stop the emotional/passionate appeal' I'm actually kind of giddy that he recognized it for what it was. Some people argue semantics, get lost in pettifoggery, some like to debate over game philosophy, some are just pure logicians, some are pedants - I usually more than anything try to appeal to a person's passion in posts. Nothing wrong with that.

Anyway I believe Ramus asked what makes me "not scummy" and Cyberbob "scummy". My opinion in this will be very subjective, but I guess thats to be expected.

I'm not scummy because:

My first 'real' post was a tiny scumtrap. I do this in about every game I play.
I was the first and only person to immediately scrutinize Cyberbob's shotgun attack post.
Subsequently defended myself from personal attacks, while having the gall not to let Cyberbob get the last word in.
Saved the town the time and effort by anticipating the wagon and claiming.
I'm trying to be helpful (when not being called dumb)

Cyberbob is scummy because:

In his first post, he managed to spin suspicion onto four people. Mariyta, Myself, Tuber, Reborn. That just doesn't sit well with me. Its safe for a scummer to make a one broad attack post he can refrence back to and claim scumhunting.
He refused to admit that one of his responses to me made absolutely zero sense "The point I'm making is that you were telling him that his method of ending random voting was faulty despite it more or less having been over for some time already." When confronted about this he got extremely defensive and resorted to personal attacks. (I'd like to admit that I attacked him personally too and called him an asshole, only after he called me an idiot 2x)
"Drop the tone and I'll drop the insults." - to me, that just speaks volumes.


I'm willing to forget about it for now, but seriously be careful about confronting Cyberbob on anything. Expect to be called names.

I've been thinking about it, and I dont like Coheed's oppurtunistic vote on me.

Not only do you not list reasons, you barn a post that listed a faulty reason.

I'll go with iLord on that and

Vote: Coheed

[reborn537]

I didn't think much of the Timeater wagon until he just made a fairly big argument against Cyberbob before voting for CoheedCambria immediately preceded by a one line argument, which is essentially what he awarded the vote for.

[roffman]

I'm not blatantly fishing. I believe in game as flavor based as this that scum would need to have been given safe claims. However, if timeater's role matches my description of a cook, then i'd claim as well. That way, we'll have two cleared townies, making the game significantly harder than scum as they either have to waste night kills going through us and protective roles, or keep our votes active in a smaller pool of suspects.

Alternatively, he could claim differently to me, in which case one of us should be lynched, and you get yourselves a scum for the cost of a townie. Fair trade i think.

[Pesco47]

Anyway I believe Ramus asked what makes me "not scummy" and Cyberbob "scummy". My opinion in this will be very subjective, but I guess thats to be expected.

I'm not scummy because:

My first 'real' post was a tiny scumtrap. I do this in about every game I play.
I was the first and only person to immediately scrutinize Cyberbob's shotgun attack post.
Subsequently defended myself from personal attacks, while having the gall not to let Cyberbob get the last word in.
Saved the town the time and effort by anticipating the wagon and claiming.
I'm trying to be helpful (when not being called dumb)

Cyberbob is scummy because:

In his first post, he managed to spin suspicion onto four people. Mariyta, Myself, Tuber, Reborn. That just doesn't sit well with me. Its safe for a scummer to make a one broad attack post he can refrence back to and claim scumhunting.
He refused to admit that one of his responses to me made absolutely zero sense "The point I'm making is that you were telling him that his method of ending random voting was faulty despite it more or less having been over for some time already." When confronted about this he got extremely defensive and resorted to personal attacks. (I'd like to admit that I attacked him personally too and called him an asshole, only after he called me an idiot 2x)
"Drop the tone and I'll drop the insults." - to me, that just speaks volumes.


I'm willing to forget about it for now, but seriously be careful about confronting Cyberbob on anything. Expect to be called names.

Indeed very subjective. Can we get something not so biased, because it's mostly "Give me a free pass, this is just me" kind of material I'm seeing here.


CoCam's vote while citing my reasons is also suspicious to me. When iLord pointed out that my own reasons for voting when given in my vote post, I realised I didn't actually say much about why I was voting. CoCam must be a real psychic if he could figure out my ideas which I hadn't put into words yet.

FoS CoCam

'm not blatantly fishing. I believe in game as flavor based as this that scum would need to have been given safe claims. However, if timeater's role matches my description of a cook, then i'd claim as well. That way, we'll have two cleared townies, making the game significantly harder than scum as they either have to waste night kills going through us and protective roles, or keep our votes active in a smaller pool of suspects.

Alternatively, he could claim differently to me, in which case one of us should be lynched, and you get yourselves a scum for the cost of a townie. Fair trade i think.

Stop trying to outguess the mod. The mod always wins.

[CoheedCambria09]

unvote

reduces the wagon, everyone get whats they want.

Tim. did just do the exact same thing to me though, so why is he not being as scrutinized for it?

[Mariyta]

Ick. I haven't had time to read the last 2 pages, and I'm at work so I can only skim. But so far, TE is not really acting like he did in the last game I was in with him (a null tell, really, but not something to be ignored). His vote on Coheed was quite lame, seemed like he was jumping on someone who another already pointed out as suspicious. As of this point, TE is my vote for scummiest player of the day, but I'll have to re-read and get a better feel for the rest.

[Pesco47]

I'm not blatantly fishing. I believe in game as flavor based as this that scum would need to have been given safe claims. However, if timeater's role matches my description of a cook, then i'd claim as well. That way, we'll have two cleared townies, making the game significantly harder than scum as they either have to waste night kills going through us and protective roles, or keep our votes active in a smaller pool of suspects.

Alternatively, he could claim differently to me, in which case one of us should be lynched, and you get yourselves a scum for the cost of a townie. Fair trade i think.

On a reread of this, Tim giving out the same claim as you does

NOT

clear the both of you as town. The only surety is that you have the exact same roles.

Some gaps I'd like to point out:
Tim and Roff are on both scum, a falsified confirmation.
Tim and Roff are opposite sides, Roff claims difference (since he's going second) and gambits on getting Tim lynched first.

FoS Roffman

[Timeater]

Haven't I been saying Roffman is scum for awhile now?

[Pesco47]

It's hard to take that seriously when you said it during random voting.

But on another note here. You think CoCam is scum due to some reasoning and Roffman is scum because you say so. Which one is the better vote and why?

[Timeater]

I didnt only say during random voting. Roffman is a fisher, bandwagoner, and he told me to stop being "lazy" when he himself only had seven posts, etc. Not to mention he's trying to get me to basically state my "role description" - when I claimed pretty fully already (paraphrasing the mod is bad kids?). I dont know what he exactly wants from me, but I dont want to give it.

[Pesco47]

Number of posts does not equal content value. You haven't answered my question.

[Timeater]

Haven't I already answered that with my CoCam vote? I dont trust either of them, honestly. I'm going with CoCam because I'm not going to be able to convince people that Cyberbob or Roffman of being scum because everyone is wary of me now after the "tantrum". I'm cool with that, whatever. CoCam is a solid lynch.

[Ramus]

Taking a quick break from homework to do some of this...

@Roffman

What does a cook do? I don't know but you apparently do.
Also, ya lost me with the catch scum logic there.

@Timeater

OFF TOPIC: I don't even know what giddy means, which is ironic since I hear the word all of the time.

1. affected with vertigo; dizzy.
2. attended with or causing dizziness: a giddy climb.
3. frivolous and lighthearted; impulsive; flighty: a giddy young person.

I'll take it as a good thing.

Anyway, cyberbob's four person accusation is a valid point but not enough to really do anywhere. However, as far as insults go, I guess that's a part of cyberbob that we'll have to endure. However, I think I'll take note of the fact that he only seems to do that (atleast he does it a lot more) when being attacked.

@reborn

Stop sitting by the side and looking innocent. Get some meat into those skinny posts. And I want lean meat, not the fatty, pointless stuff kind.

@CoCam/Coheed

I'm getting no signal from you and you were fast to jump off that bandwagon. Any reason why?

@Mariyta

Quit meta-gaming. It doesn't work.


Anyway, current suspicions of mine sit on Roffman mainly since I don't get the townie/mafia trade off idea at all and his cook claim... thing? Either way, can I get a bit more info on those two subjects?[/ooc]

[reborn537]

Meta - in the last mini theme I played in modded by Claus I was scum in a group of three - we all had safe claims - one very safe, one medium, one risky.

[Ramus]

Meta - in the last mini theme I played in modded by Claus I was scum in a group of three - we all had safe claims - one very safe, one medium, one risky.

And your point is? This game is entirely different.

[iLord]

asdfasdf

2. I never said that third quote...

My bad, that's Tuber.

1. You said before that it was a "joke bandwagon", so you were implying that it wasn't a real bandwagon in that post.

Joke bandwagon?

I do believe that I had already mentioned that joke was most likely the incorrect term for what I meant.

I'm not blatantly fishing. I believe in game as flavor based as this that scum would need to have been given safe claims. However, if timeater's role matches my description of a cook, then i'd claim as well. That way, we'll have two cleared townies, making the game significantly harder than scum as they either have to waste night kills going through us and protective roles, or keep our votes active in a smaller pool of suspects.

Alternatively, he could claim differently to me, in which case one of us should be lynched, and you get yourselves a scum for the cost of a townie. Fair trade i think.

Hmm..

You're a cook as well?

How many classes are there in DF? If there's a lot, then I think this could be important, but if there's only a few, I think it'd be better for both of you to keep quiet.

unvote reduces the wagon, everyone get whats they want.

Tim. did just do the exact same thing to me though, so why is he not being as scrutinized for it?

Horribly scummy - jumping out of the spotlight and deflection.

I'm happy with my vote.

[reborn537]

Meta - in the last mini theme I played in modded by Claus I was scum in a group of three - we all had safe claims - one very safe, one medium, one risky.

And your point is? This game is entirely different.

Same mod, same game-type. It would be remiss of me not to mention it.