Mafia 83 - Game Ended Scum Win!

[Reclusion]

Mod:

Out of curiosity, who is being replaced? Might be relevant, in case it takes a while to fill the spot. Thanks.

Reclusion

Mod:

If you could make it a temporary replacement, that would be perfect. I should be able to play again in 4 weeks time. I'm just going to be really busy from now until then, and I won't be able to keep up.

Sure.

[Battle Mage]

BM -- Frenetic, but I've heard that's normal. Has good content, though. That said, do I have to explain why lynching a claimed doc on day 1 isn't a good idea? I think Jebus's logic and play so far have been absolutely scummy as well, but surely waiting for tomorrow on this one can only help. Oh, and I still don't have a clue what the hell he saw in that post that in any way implicated Cow.

How will tomorrow be any different?

BM

[iamausername]

I can protect myself.

Well, I'm definitely happy with my vote.

Mod, can you add the deadline to the thread title please?

I had no idea it was so close until Yaw pointed it out.

[Yaw]

First of all, we get a chance to explore other players for scum. After all, there's certainly more than one person in this game who is evil.

Second, if Jebus were really a doc, there's pressure on the scum to night kill him(?) tonight. Tomorrow, based on whether or not Jebus is still alive, it can indicate something about scum thought processes, and gives us more information about Jebus's culpability (if he(?)'s still alive, that is). Besides which, we have some days remaining before the deadline and may as well make use of them. (Also, is lynching Jebus today all that different from lynching Jebus tomorrow? The only case I can think of in which it really makes a difference is if Jebus is a SK.) There's a bit of WIFOM in here, but in general real outed docs have such a target on their heads that they don't last too many nights, especially if there are other higher value roles they can protect -- the longer a claimed doc lasts in a game, the more likely they are to be lying scum.

Of course, all of that assumes a "normal" doc claim on day 1. This has some elements that aren't normal, so I can see some justification for lynching Jebus today. I think at least that should wait until he(? -- seriously, Jebus, use a gender icon) gets back to us about self-protection.

[Battle Mage]

First of all, we get a chance to explore other players for scum. After all, there's certainly more than one person in this game who is evil.

Second, if Jebus were really a doc, there's pressure on the scum to night kill him(?) tonight. Tomorrow, based on whether or not Jebus is still alive, it can indicate something about scum thought processes, and gives us more information about Jebus's culpability (if he(?)'s still alive, that is). Besides which, we have some days remaining before the deadline and may as well make use of them. (Also, is lynching Jebus today all that different from lynching Jebus tomorrow? The only case I can think of in which it really makes a difference is if Jebus is a SK.) There's a bit of WIFOM in here, but in general real outed docs have such a target on their heads that they don't last too many nights, especially if there are other higher value roles they can protect -- the longer a claimed doc lasts in a game, the more likely they are to be lying scum.

Of course, all of that assumes a "normal" doc claim on day 1. This has some elements that aren't normal, so I can see some justification for lynching Jebus today. I think at least that should wait until he(? -- seriously, Jebus, use a gender icon) gets back to us about self-protection.

I dont see why any scumbag in their right mind would NK Jebus. ESPECIALLY after the 'self-protect' thing. If he is lying, it makes a perfect story for why he never dies. If he's telling the truth, he becomes useless, as he wont protect anyone else! lol

We can use the rest of the day, but id like it to end in a Jebus-Lynch.

BM

[Yaw]

Of course, all of that assumes a "normal" doc claim on day 1.

Yes, I already addressed that. You'll also note my original reread occurred

before

Jebus claimed self-protection abilities, which was when I made the point you've taken issue with.

Anyway, Jebus can't get away with failing to answer about this point, so I see no reason not to look at other people in the interim. If he(?) doesn't answer, we lynch him(?). Simple.

[alvinz95]

Hadgfas, why are you voting me?

I don't like Jebus's claim.

BM is semi-lurking for his meta. Wants to kill claimed doc.

[hasdgfas]

Well, alvinz, first off:

Ugh, crap internet. 12 am now so post tomorrow if the internet works. Stupid comcast

Where's that post that I assumed was large because of how this was worded?

Also, you haven't really said anything in your posts. I read through them, and you don't say a whole lot in regards to who you think is scummy, as far as I can tell.

[Yaw]

And as part of your large post, alvinz95, you might want to explain how exactly you think these two ideas work together:

I don't like Jebus's claim.

BM is semi-lurking for his meta. Wants to kill claimed doc.

[Jebus]

Okay, turns out I can't protect myself. Damn.

[alvinz95]

Okay, turns out I can't protect myself. Damn.

...

Anyway, who said that I would make a huge post?

[killa seven]

I don't like Jebus's claim.

BM is semi-lurking for his meta. Wants to kill claimed doc.

This doesnt make sense at all.

[Yaw]

alvinz95 -- You said you would make a post. There were several of us hoping, given your relative lack of content thus far, that you'd remedy that with some actual paragraphs.

Explaining the text I quoted would be a good start.

[hasdgfas]

Okay, turns out I can't protect myself. Damn.

...

Anyway, who said that I would make a huge post?

alvinz. Read the post I quoted in my previous post. Because you decided to make a post to say you would post tomorrow, I assumed it would be large.

[chazworthington]

Again, apologizes for the lack of posting. The quarter is almost closed, at which point things will relax.

What's the use in claiming in a normal game when the votes are on me?

Option 1: I claim townie. I still get lynched.
Option 2: I claim a power role (Doc/Cop). There's some hesitation, I still get lynched.

But since you seem to insist, I claim Doc.

I'm really torn on the wording here. On the one hand it looks like it was typed with self survival in mind. On the other hand, I'm also getting a vibe of frustrated townie. I don't know which one to listen to more at the moment. The concerns over beliveing you could self protect have already been mentioned elseswhere.

I'm going to echo the comments of not wanting to lynch a claimed doc on D1, but I agree there are some issues with the claim. I think our best option is to meta Jebus. While we can't discuss any on-going games, we may be able to find games in which he acted in the same way but was town. Or we find a game where he did hold a doc role and didn't act this way. I'll try to do some of that tonight.

Right now, I'm most comfortable with a Netman or Mana lynch. I don't like Netman's statements implying he is playing for self survival. Mana's fluff to stuff ratio is out of control. I'll make more formal cases tonight as well.

@Yaw - Point taken on the voting.

Vote: Netman

[qwints]

My vote stands. If you were a Doc, and you were forced to claim, getting lynched would be your LAST worry. Why do you not think you will get NKed?

I think it's more likely you are a townie than a Doc. And more likely you are scum than a townie.

BM

I don't care how scummy a claimed doc has been on day one, I think you have to respect the claim. Not to mention that Jebus appears to just have been stupid about the self-protect thing. Thus BM's comments about the scum not nk'ing Jebus don't add up.

vote: Battle Mage

[qwints]

Whoops, just noticed that BM posts about scum not nk'ing Jebus were made before Jebus retracted his self-protect claim. But I think my point is still true in general.

[Jebus]

It's not stupidity, it's my not being used to how this site's games are played. It's like going from Japan's Baseball to America's Baseball, or something like that. Either way, there are many important details that are different between here and most of the other places I've played.

@Chaz - I've never held a protecting role before in any game I've finished.

[qwints]

Wouldn't a self-protecting doc break the game?

[Yaw]

The problem with a self-protecting doc is that it's broken in at least the same way a bulletproof role is broken. Actually, self-protecting docs are probably worse, because not only could you end up with a dominant pro-town player scum have no way to get rid of, the doc can also form part of the doc-cop combo (the dominance of which caused changes in Newbie setups). Way back in Hobbit Mafia, I was a cop that gained the option of a bulletproof ability night 3. To use it, I had to give up my investigation for the night. So, I never investigated ever again, while picking off scum from what they said in thread. (Of course, that game was broken for other reasons as well, but that's not relevant here.)

Long story short, giving a player the ability to simply not get nightkilled is broken, because if a Jeep or MeMe joins your game and gets that role, the opposing side has very little chance of winning.

Also, I'm kind of surprised that in none of the games you finished, Jebus, you didn't notice upon seeing the night choices that the doc didn't

protect him/herself the entire game

, which would clearly be the optimal play.

What do we have to do to get this moving? Posting has been painfully slow recently. There's only 4 days until deadline. I'm worried we won't get a lynch because of inactivity.

[iamausername]

Hmm, not seeing anything in the rules about the deadline lynch conditions.

Mod, what happens if deadline arrives without a full majority being reached? Does the top vote getter get lynched, does no lynch happen or is it something else entirely?

And a vote count would be nice, too.

I really think we should lynch Jebus today, because his claim is not even remotely believable, but I would be willing to switch to Netman if necessary to avoid a No Lynch. His attempt to put suspicion on hascow for not being able to read BM's mind was pretty horrible too.

[Jebus]

A doctor normally can't protect themselves on consecutive nights, or at least that's how I've always seen it played.

@Yaw - I've really not played too many games here (and not to mention, never been a doc), and I'm far from being accustomed to this site. So no, I've not seen that yet.

[MafiaSSK]

Mod, what happens if deadline arrives without a full majority being reached? Does the top vote getter get lynched, does no lynch happen or is it something else entirely?

And a vote count would be nice, too.

If there is half-of a majority or above then the person gets lynched. Otherwise it is a nolynch. And the vote count will come soon

[MafiaSSK]

6th Vote Count(HOMG ITS A DOCTOR! votecount)

Jebus-3(Iamausername,Mr_Gnome_It_All,Battle Mage)

Battle Mage-3(alvinz95,Xtoxm,qwints)
alvinz95-2(Reclusion,hascow)
Netman-2(Yaw,chazworthington)
Hascow-1(Jebus)
iamausername-1(chazworthington)

With 14 Alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Current Deadline:September 28

[hasdgfas]

so, why, exactly, are there 3 votes on BM? I still don't understand that.