Mini Normal 2205: RotITGBSMoD [game over!]

[Andante]

sorry to keep flip flopping on and off of asteria but we have more than enough time and i want to talk this through even if it turns out i'm being stupid

exactly we have plenty of time.

alright, what's the plan here? not sure I like the fast wagon on the neo claim...

it was a sketchy claim and asteria was in plenty of people's scumpools already by the end of D1. think about it -- if you know there's a gunsmith and they might target you or one of your buddies, what kind of gunned PR claim do you want to make? probably one where you:

don't have to provide results every day (check!)
can clear your buddies as conftown (check!)
don't have to clear your buddies as PRs, thus eliminating the need to explain why they haven't been NK'd (check!)
don't claim an especially powerful role, so that it's plausible you yourself wouldn't be NK'd (check!)

i'm just saying, it's an extremely optimal fakeclaim that could've easily been hashed out as a contingency plan in scumchat. in the same position as scum, i probably would've done something very similar.

@asteria in your perfect world where andres and salsa are the next 2 elims (imagining for the sake of the hypothetical that no one is NK'd),

who do you check N3?

p-edit @VFP if you're VT, it might actually be in scum's best interest to kill you tonight if asteria flips neapolitan. they can eliminate the only 100% conftown player, and continue to cast doubt on andante's claim by not making her the NK. koba will probably self-resolve tonight either way, so that's less of a motivation than i'd originally thought, but in the universe where asteria is neapolitan this does seem like an okay scum strategy that negates the mechanical utility of flipping asteria today in a worst-case scenario.

I mean true.. I'd bet scum brainstormed a claim in case I checked them, and Asteria took that claim... I might be down to just kill this neo claim, the claim itself is PERFECT for scum, like, it couldn't be much better... I might just yeet asteria tbh then we go from there, like I'm liking T3 a bit more, but idk, not sold he's town yet... I'm kinda down with just hammering day here with an Asteria elim, and we discus stuff tomorrow

[Andante]

VOTE: Asteria

She's E-1 now

[Andante]

I find it a little weird VFP doesn't think to question Asteria at all... like, sure you're VT and someone guessed correctly that you are, just feels like VFP has no doubt with Asteria, so I'm not so sure she's actually neo

[InsidiousLemons]

I also tr t3, based on knowing who they are as a player

Ok perfect. T3 goes.

VOTE: T3

Yeah, but I'm not thinking about a T3 flip instead of Asteria anymore, like, I'm thinking about finding an actual scumread.

what happened between these 2 posts? why are you liking T3 "a bit more"?

[Andante]

I also tr t3, based on knowing who they are as a player

Ok perfect. T3 goes.

VOTE: T3

Yeah, but I'm not thinking about a T3 flip instead of Asteria anymore, like, I'm thinking about finding an actual scumread.

what happened between these 2 posts? why are you liking T3 "a bit more"?

it's kinda meta stuff, I think I understand his playstyle a little more idk we'll see if he has a gun tonight

[InsidiousLemons]

can you point to anything specific? "kinda meta stuff" doesn't give me a lot to go off of.

[Andante]

it's not strong. it's just, he's not worth me tunneling right now, when I know therre's better options

[VFP]

I find it a little weird VFP doesn't think to question Asteria at all... like, sure you're VT and someone guessed correctly that you are, just feels like VFP has no doubt with Asteria, so I'm not so sure she's actually neo

It's more that voting off someone who can potentially get a result tomorrow, or at least force scum to make a choice if the 3 PRs are all town seems better than a lim here.
You're looking to lim for the claim, more than for being scum. It's day 2 and that's just makes no sense to me.

On the side though, I think Asteria is town here. They should only be considered scum here if I am.
I'm not sure why they would be accepting to be the lim over me other wise. Not to mention picking me as VT was an un needed risk since I've been for 1 of the PR claims to be scum.
If I were going to be the lim anyway, it wouldn't hurt to claim someone else as VT.

[Andante]

like, he could be completely fooling me right now.. I have no clue what his scum game looks like. I'm fine with yeeting Asteria, if she's town, I'm sus of Koba. like really sus

[Andante]

I find it a little weird VFP doesn't think to question Asteria at all... like, sure you're VT and someone guessed correctly that you are, just feels like VFP has no doubt with Asteria, so I'm not so sure she's actually neo

It's more that voting off someone who can potentially get a result tomorrow, or at least force scum to make a choice if the 3 PRs are all town seems better than a lim here.
You're looking to lim for the claim, more than for being scum. It's day 2 and that's just makes no sense to me.

On the side though, I think Asteria is town here. They should only be considered scum here if I am.
I'm not sure why they would be accepting to be the lim over me other wise. Not to mention picking me as VT was an un needed risk since I've been for 1 of the PR claims to be scum.
If I were going to be the lim anyway, it wouldn't hurt to claim someone else as VT.

UNVOTE:

see that's where I'm torn, it'll force scum to make a decision, and she could be an every night neo, just saying non consecutive to not die here...

[Andante]

Like, I just don't know a good alternative. I was gonna say salsa, that slot is subbing, so whoever can catch up. Pooky scum? I have no clue

[Andante]

I do not like how pooky hasn't done anything today...

[Andante]

like honestly, I feel like T3 is looking better than Pooky right now...

[InsidiousLemons]

agreed. i wanted to see if you'd try and fabricate something more directly town AI. i've just read through hT3's posts in the game of his you linked, and while i agree he is much more active there than he has been here, he only had about half as much catch-up to do. combine this with the fact that he's a (supposedly) 13-year-old kid who's playing multiple games at once, several of which he replaced into and has to catch up on, and i really don't think it's that unreasonable to read his posting thus far as demotivated/burnt out town (piss-poor though that posting may be). 2914 is a bit more confusing to me now.

@osuka can you explain a bit more why reading T3's meta swung you so strongly when, by your own admission, meta doesn't usually have that effect on you? what did you see in that game that andante and i are missing?

p-edit mafdoc!pooky isn't entirely out of the question to me. i've seen maf PRs intentionally stand out and attract attention D1 in the way pooky did in order to allay accusations of trying to fly under the radar.

[InsidiousLemons]

^this post is @2981

[InsidiousLemons]

I find it a little weird VFP doesn't think to question Asteria at all... like, sure you're VT and someone guessed correctly that you are, just feels like VFP has no doubt with Asteria, so I'm not so sure she's actually neo

It's more that voting off someone who can potentially get a result tomorrow, or at least force scum to make a choice if the 3 PRs are all town seems better than a lim here.
You're looking to lim for the claim, more than for being scum. It's day 2 and that's just makes no sense to me.

On the side though, I think Asteria is town here. They should only be considered scum here if I am.
I'm not sure why they would be accepting to be the lim over me other wise. Not to mention picking me as VT was an un needed risk since I've been for 1 of the PR claims to be scum.
If I were going to be the lim anyway, it wouldn't hurt to claim someone else as VT.

only she couldn't potentially get a result tomorrow unless she's lying about the non-consecutive bit. we'll be waiting at least 2 more days and who knows what will have happened by then.

you also both keep raising this point about how Very Town it was of asteria to choose you as VT and to Selflessly And Heroically suggest herself as the lim instead. it's a towntell under most circumstances, sure, but you guys seem very determined to keep reminding us just how much of a towntell it is.

also: skimming through your ISO, 2566 catches my eye. i didn't bother reading into it at first, but the more i think about it the more my head hurts. these are the relevant posts:

My conftown result is VFP

I targeted them because people were scumreading them at the end of the day and I didn't think they were scum.

Asteria is lying.

oh you're saying you're not VT vfp? that would make things easy

VFP is most definitely VT. I'm not sure why they think I'm lying

I guess you picked the wrong person there. Was a worthy try.

Nice reaction test. And very understandable since people think I'm playing a guessing game with it

I am 100% certain VFP is VT

UNVOTE: Asteria
I am VT for the record. I also did a subtle post to make Asteria not want to pick me if they were lying.

Just give the name of the VT so I can convince them that Andante is scum.

the idea here is that by subtly crumbing PR while actually being VT, you are trying to coax lying!asteria into picking someone who isn't VT and will catch her in a lie. the problem with this is that you had no reason, as far as i can tell, to suspect that asteria would pick you in the first place if lying. you weren't obvtown D1, you hadn't claimed or crumbed VT. so what was the motivation for this "test" besides providing support for the idea that you really are VT? the more i look at it the more i start to read it as scum!VFP creating evidence for themself that they can fall back on after a planned "VFP is VT" result from asteria. this back-and-forth between VFP and asteria could easily be an example of the same -- them creating evidence of a reaction test to save themselves if questions were raised about the veracity of the nea claim. am i going full tinfoil? it's possible, but when there is conclusive proof that they are definitely the same alignment, it does raise the odds of this being scum collaboration.

[InsidiousLemons]

I find it a little weird VFP doesn't think to question Asteria at all... like, sure you're VT and someone guessed correctly that you are, just feels like VFP has no doubt with Asteria, so I'm not so sure she's actually neo

that being said: town points to VFP for

not

referencing the above-quoted conversation in response to this attack

[InsidiousLemons]

2977 is didn't-read-the-thread AI for andante

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I do not like how pooky hasn't done anything today...

I don't understand the Asteria wagon and I'd love for someone to explain why Asteria is like definitely scum here

[Andante]

If Asteria is fake, I think she just randomly picked someone everyone fossed. Like, I'm confused why she picks someone everyone else was sus of, then goes "well I didn't fos VFP" like, she also never said she TRed VFP either d1... idk, I'm kinda just down with yeeting her and just a "sorry if wrong" mindset


like, so many are already voting her, and most have barely said anything, like Koba and osuka are so convinced she's flipping scum... yet idk

[Andante]

I do not like how pooky hasn't done anything today...

I don't understand the Asteria wagon and I'd love for someone to explain why Asteria is like definitely scum here

who's a better vote here?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

maybe Anya

I just really want one of the people who are super sure that Asteria flips red to like lay out why Asteria is flipping red here.

[Andante]

I believe the 4 voting are the ones who are super convinced, but like the same reason we didn't yeet the tracker d1... logic is telling me to not yeet the neo claim... let maf deal withit

[InsidiousLemons]

If Asteria is fake, I think she just randomly picked someone everyone fossed. Like, I'm confused why she picks someone everyone else was sus of, then goes "well I didn't fos VFP" like, she also never said she TRed VFP either d1... idk, I'm kinda just down with yeeting her and just a "sorry if wrong" mindset

if asteria is fake she is almost certainly defending her scumbuddy. if she's gonna clear a random person why not pick someone other people TR'd more universally? and what sense does it make to pick a random person anyway when you could kill 2 birds with one stone, clear your scumbuddy, and know that they'd back you up on the VT claim? from there it's not too far of a jump to assume that you'd want to create a paper trail for yourself as a contingency. i know you've said you skip giant posts (anti-town behaviour but fine), but PLEASE read my 2990 and tell me what you think. it really isn't that long.

@pooky i'm happy to lay out my reasoning, but i've said much of it already and i'm not sure whether i'm one of the people you view as being "super sure" asteria is flipping red.

[InsidiousLemons]

also does your reasoning for wanting anya dead go beyond "she's on the asteria wagon"