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[Andresvmb]

Got prodded, I'm here

UNVOTE: Iconeum

Don't know if he's town but my reads are way stale at this point and Icon is a non-wagon. I did see Icon giving reasons I could be town that he could just as easily keep to himself but not sure what to make of that, he certainly doesn't seem to want to actually dissuade my wagon

Am I still at E-1? I saw I was at one point.

Sorry I read this to be a vote not an Unvote. I mixed that up. But even then, the point is roughly the same.

[Datisi]

do i smell a deadline flashwagon in the making

[Andresvmb]

Wouldn’t that be exciting? You know I’m generally against them, but I do think this game needs a bit of a shakeup.

[Infinity 324]

Infinity I’ll admit - your reads feel somewhat static. I think you’ve had the same 2 or 3 players as Scum most of D1, and have softly defended OutWorldER without sticking your head out much (158, 571). Can you elaborate a bit more on what you make of Umlaut’s last set of posts? Do you think Scum is likely to come back after being pushed to the brink and vote outside of the leading wagons (and particularly a player you seem to TR)?

I agree it's +town for umlaut, but it's not enough to take him into the next tier, especially because I feel like there's momentum to start new wagons at this point in time. There are only 3 votes on ower

[Infinity 324]

infinity, why is outworld so high?

He could be in a lower tier, but it's purely a gut read

[Infinity 324]

I was going over the votes on my wagon and I'm confused about Infinity in particular, because of posts like

UNVOTE:
VOTE: umlaut

Don't feel the best about this, but alright

that imply they aren't really sure about me, and earlier asking to be talked into voting me, but then consistently listing me as a top scumread to the point of basing their opinion of their Ico wagon on the fact I'm on it.

Infinity, when did I go from "I guess I could vote him if that's what we're doing" to a serious suspect in your estimation?

I still don't love this wagon, and I still don't have anything in particular I can point to that you did that was scummy, I just townread other people more. My opinion hasn't changed

Also, I missed anya in my tier list, she should be at null, which is the same as datisi and umlaut.

[Datisi]

umlaut why aren't you voting anyone

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: OutWorldER

Let’s try something. I think OW is slacking too much.

[Datisi]

VOTE: outworlder

y-2

bed time for me. be back at less than 24 hours before deadline. we *really* need to get some claims.

[Andresvmb]

I’ve been calling Datisi Town consistently and I am really starting to get confused about the SR’s there.

what're you basing your view of datisi on

for me it started as instinct and then I noticed what could be 2 mafia tells when reading his games (that are present in this one), but I forgot what one of them was

I’m interested in this @samantha. Do you think you can expand a bit on your view of Datisi? I really do believe Datisi is somewhat transparent in games, though it probably boils down to how much responsibility they feel they need to carry for their Team (whichever Team that is). I think of Datisi to some extent as a try hard when they need to be. So if Scum is slacking, I expect Datisi to pick up the slack when Scum. If Town is slacking, and they’re Town, same thing. I don’t expect them to recede into the background (and I would be suspicious if they did). Just from memory I don’t think they’ve engaged in a lot of direct confrontations, but I’ll go back and take a look.

[samantha97]

Spoiler:

VOTE: outworlder

if someone hammers without a claim they should get instalynched tomorrow

last mini normal I played mafia hammered a neighborizer before they could claim, cause they were inactive like outworlder/umlaut

[samantha97]

I’m interested in this @samantha. Do you think you can expand a bit on your view of Datisi? I really do believe Datisi is somewhat transparent in games, though it probably boils down to how much responsibility they feel they need to carry for their Team (whichever Team that is). I think of Datisi to some extent as a try hard when they need to be. So if Scum is slacking, I expect Datisi to pick up the slack when Scum. If Town is slacking, and they’re Town, same thing. I don’t expect them to recede into the background (and I would be suspicious if they did). Just from memory I don’t think they’ve engaged in a lot of direct confrontations, but I’ll go back and take a look.

well one of them was lost to time but the other was in relation to 'vibes'

... which I also forget the exact details of, but he made a point of talking about it as mafia... I think

if you ctrl f his games for that word you might find what I mean

[Andresvmb]

confirmed town
Iconeum

I’m also fascinated by this. I have a lot of conflicting thoughts about Iconeum. They seemed to get overly upset about what they perceived to be wrong descriptions of their play or pushes against them, and I don’t know what that means (but just felt a bit over the top for Scum). I’ve seen them react aggressively before and succumb to OMGUS as Town (we did a bit of that dance when we first played together towards the beginning of that game), except Datisi pinned them down correctly and hard defended them. But here, I’m not really getting warm and fuzzy feelings about them. Like some of the criticism from Umlaut in 366 rings true to me. They almost seemed to eager to get into a fight with me and tunnel, and I like to think Town are a little more cautious than that. But again, I know Iconeum doesn’t really play that way, so that’s where the mixed feelings is coming from.

[Andresvmb]

to eager

*too eager

[Andresvmb]

Like, after my fight with Rathe I reconsidered and came to a town!Rathe conclusion

After my fight with datisi I came to both datisi AND rathe!town reads

HOW THE FUCK IS THAT ME NOT RECONSIDERING ANYTHINGGGGGGG

why is a bad logic push scum!indicative?
i have not yet scumread datisi this game, so please dont misrep me - and don't give me that crap about datisi not being hard to read

you go read our last -6- games or something and make your conclusion from that instead of such a cheap jab

wait you think i'm pushing datisi? and 'pushing misinformation'? You are literally showing you aren't caught up to this game

You’re right about one thing. Bad logic can absolutely come from Town. That’s not necessarily AI. Insisting that your bad logic is actually useful and not reconsidering - that’s more what I think is AI and comes from Scum. After your back and forth, you say something about how you maybe shouldn’t be pushing your POV so hard, but that it’s a draw. A draw? I read it, and I actually thought you were just wrong, and Datisi was right. Regardless of alignment. It seemed to me like you wanted to hold on to bad logic and a bad read.

WTF?

I DID reconsider
that is literally what happened - the draw part was with datisi, not Rathe
If I wanted to hold on to bad logic and hold on to my 'bad read', I wouldn't be reconsidering now would I?????

This is scum, folks

ok i'm triggered

andres is scum shitpushing me

going to grab a coffee and calm down first lol

ok fine

i'm arguing my pov a bit too strong here, but you are overly defending someting that shouldn't be defended quite that hard

i'll take a draw here

oh and dats

when are you gonna vote rathe

This doesn’t strike me as reconsidering up to that point now does it?

ARE YOU ACTUALLY READING THE GAME???

offering the draw with datisi is literally me reconsidering and not continuing

the second post is literally a meme which you'd know if you were actually reading

Like this sequence of posts is almost too confrontational for Scum if you ask me. But then again it could be Scum looking to get into a tunnel to avoid spilling too much about other players. Except Iconeum is the top poster and basically going every which way. Like that doesn’t make sense either.

[Andresvmb]

if you ctrl f his games for that word you might find what I mean

This doesn’t really help me though like I am not going to go do this. One thing Datisi has said is that as Town they’re happier sharing their gut reads whereas as Scum they have more difficulty with that. I’ll ISO there now try and come up with a more detailed read there.

[samantha97]

we're probably going to have to go our separate ways in terms of processes cause my methods are kind of eccentric

[Andresvmb]

we're probably going to have to go our separate ways in terms of processes cause my methods are kind of eccentric

Yeah I can see this. But I guess I’m not so interested in you detailing your process too much. Just explain in your own way what makes Iconeum Confirmed Town and Datisi Scum would be useful to me.

[samantha97]

datisi is as I said

iconeum I compared and contrasted this game's posts with past games and came up above the mafia line, and the other reason I'm not gonna elaborate on but is kind of obvious

[Luca Blight]

Outworld, time to claim

[Luca Blight]

I agree that Umlaut’s re-entrance seems somewhat townie

[Andresvmb]

Actually I ISO’ed Datisi, and they don’t have a lot of positions.

@Datisi, you’re a bit devoid of takes as far as I can tell, outside of that post where you listed a bunch of names and said you wouldn’t execute among them. Can you elaborate more on your view of the game? I am getting a slight feeling that you’re coasting.

[Andresvmb]

ico, andres, infinity, maybe rathe, maaaybe anya. samantha i saw something that might just be town!indicate but too early to tell.

llama and zoomer were giving me townie vibes earlier but their votes on ico are like. not good. also the more i'm looking at zoomer the more i'm wondering if he's just perpetually gonna be in this weird catchup mode and i don't know if i like it.

if i didn't know who luca was, he'd be a townread. he however has not impressed yet for his standards.

Can you update this?

[Andresvmb]

There’s like too many posts doubting TRs of your slot (or explaining why players shouldn’t TR you for your positioning around Ico), a lot of questions about why you’re being viewed either which way, and a lot of talk about how other players are perhaps playing the game. But not a lot of opinions about other people’s alignment if that makes sense.

[Luca Blight]

Finally you’re seeing what I’m seeing

Datisi’s energy feels really off this game, but again maybe it’s just taking him time to get properly invested in the game? Idk