Open 80 - Double Day Mafia (Game Over!)

[armlx]

Vote KoC

Lets get this game moving somewhere.

LEHMAN BROS!!!!!

Firestarter - 4 (CF Riot, SpyreX, Knight of Cydonia, StrangerCoug)
Knight of Cydonia - 4 (LlamaFluff, killa seven, orangepenguin, armlx)
FaerieLord - 1 (Manito)
StrangerCoug - 1 (TheSweatpantsNinja)
killa seven - 1 (Joubert)
Manito - 1 (FaerieLord)
CF Riot - 1 (Firestarter)

13/7/4

-Mod

[Manito]

Lets try this one more time; Koc is scum.

At the start of the day, KoC quickly (90) decided that the three scum were me, K7 and FL. His vote started on K7 citing reasons from D1. As the day went on, this LoS changed to include the people that started becoming common suspects since his pushes were going nowhere. He moves over to the forming FL wagon soon after he puts K7 at #1 over #2 FL in his LoS (95). His 110 is his first self-preservation move though. During most of the day he was “very sure” of his FL-LF-K7 scum trio, it seemed that none of those cases were going anywhere though, and he was becoming a high ranking suspect. So in 110 he decides to vote for a high vote getter, FS. He replaces me with FS saying that we are both alternates, which is funny since part of his reasoning for having K7 as a suspect is that I kept coming to the defense of him. Also this kind of destroys the “very sure of” scum read he had on me, passing on a lynch of his top three for a previously undiscussed suspect. There also were multiple shots at SC who people began expressing suspicion of. This is classic self preservation play.

The fact that KoC started with “LF-FL-K7 are scum”, and has slowly turned that into “lets lynch FS scum” along with the seemingly willingness to get behind a SC wagon if one emerges just reeks of scum trying to avoid getting lynched for as long as possible. I don’t see how the OMGUS of FS is worse then the self-preservation of KoC here.

While I can see some of the logic of your argument here, it looks more like what armlx just did, someone who just wants to get the game going. I really don't see KoC's behavior as more or less scummy than anyone else who has recently placed a vote based purely on game momentum at the time (or in these cases, because of the deadline) - I think it's the pressure of deadline that is forcing the switches, not necessarily dodgy behavior.

I'm sticking with FL until I see something more concrete than the above conjecture - everything above is a little too open to interpretation for me to vote on it.

[Firestarter]

Yup.... KoC likes his flavour of the day alright.... switching to "lynchables" when he can...

Im not gonna get a CFR lynch today, but Im happy to help lynch his buddy.

UNVOTE..
VOTE: Knight of Cydonia.

@ Manito...
1-10, how scummy do you think Koc has been, given your last statement....
And..
Are you saying that armlx has been

just

as scummy as Koc?
If so.. whats your case?

[StrangerCoug]

Pfft. I asked for an updated PbPA on killa seven from Knight of Cydonia. I don't remember seeing it. Deadline's looming, and I don't see a Firestarter lynch in this half of the day.

Unvote: Firestarter
Vote: Knight of Cydonia

THIS IS LYNCH MINUS ONE.

[Manito]

@ Manito...
1-10, how scummy do you think Koc has been, given your last statement....
And..
Are you saying that armlx has been

just

as scummy as Koc?
If so.. whats your case?

To be really honest, KoC does jump around a lot, but usually it's pretty well backed by reasoning, from what I've seen (I haven't paid as close attention as those who seem to think he is scum), so my gut read on him is wishy-washy town. Yes, his behavior is a little scummy, but I think we've all learned the lesson that scummy behavior doesn't always mean scum (or are we all forgetting forbiddanlight...)

As for armlx, his accusation that KoC jumps around a lot feels hypocritical, considering his own voting history. That, and armlx posts a la K7, with the short, sarcastic one liners, and not a whole lot of backup on his votes. That, to me, feels much more shady than the things everyone is pointing fingers at KoC for.

So am I saying armlx has been just as scummy as KoC? Not exactly. Is armlx behaving in a scummy manner, yes. Would I vote for armlx based on it? Not yet. I see someone else who has been worse...and my vote will stay there until I see something far worse.

[SpyreX]

STOP

Hammertime!

Unvote, Vote: KoC

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Jesus, that was abrupt.

[CF Riot]

=/ ?

I was tired of today, and I'm predicting scum-flip, but I just hate when things shift all suddenly like that. If this is a mislynch I'm going to be pissed for more than one reason, and I'm probably not going to trust anyone.

[orangepenguin]

So do we go straight to 2.5? I wasn't here during Day 1.0, so..??

[SpyreX]

I was tired of today, and I'm predicting scum-flip, but I just hate when things shift all suddenly like that. If this is a mislynch I'm going to be pissed for more than one reason, and I'm probably not going to trust anyone.

Honestly, today started dragging on and I had a chance to hammer, so I took it. KoC has been scummy and thats going to be the "best" consensus we were going to get. So, yea, there we go.

[somestrangeflea]

End of Day 2.0 Votecount

Knight of Cydonia - 7 (LlamaFluff, killa seven, orangepenguin, armlx, Firestarter, StrangerCoug, SpyreX)

Firestarter - 2 (CF Riot, Knight of Cydonia)
FaerieLord - 1 (Manito)
StrangerCoug - 1 (TheSweatpantsNinja)
killa seven - 1 (Joubert)
Manito - 1 (FaerieLord)

Knight of Cydonia. He's dead now.

This was a

.bad.

thing.

Knight of Cydonia,

Townie

, lynched Day 2.0.

It is now Day 2.5!

No players are currently voting.

With 12 alive, it still takes 7 to lynch.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Yay for quick-lynch with no chance to defend myself! Way to go, 'tardscum! XD
BAH!

This is the last post which Knight of Cydonia made as his first role.
-Mod

[SpyreX]

Well, that honestly isn't that surprising. However, lets take a look at the votes.

Vote: FS

FoS: Orange Penguin

Wanted to know who'd be a good scumpartner for FS? Hint, its you.

[SpyreX]

Knight of Cydonia - 7 (LlamaFluff, killa seven, orangepenguin, armlx, Firestarter, StrangerCoug, SpyreX)

Just so we're clear. I will not believe that KoC was an all-town lynch. We have one of the scum on that list (if not more).

Of those on there, the three I would be most suspicious of are:

FS
OP
K7

I highly doubt LF is scum - pushing that hard for it with other options would be an amazing scumploy that I just dont see happening.

Arm just has been a gut-town feel all game and continues to do so.

SC is kind of variable (I'll need a reread) but, again, I'm not seeing it.

Me, well.. I did just power hammer to move the game forward when we had consensus on what was a scummy player. With the speed I'll admit I more than half expected a townflip but, even then, we can pull information out of it and we've still got time.

So, any of the above would be great - I know I'm not going to get any backing on FL who I STILL think has a decent chance to be scum so there ya have it.

[StrangerCoug]

Vote: FS

FoS: Orange Penguin

Wanted to know who'd be a good scumpartner for FS? Hint, its you.

What makes you say that?

[LlamaFluff]

So, any of the above would be great - I know I'm not going to get any backing on FL who I STILL think has a decent chance to be scum so there ya have it.

Im just going to pretend KoC was scum there for a little bit... that feels better.

I think that you are ignoring what Manito did just before KoC got lynched way too much. That was a big push by him to just stay off the KoC wagon without really calling him town.

Out of the three people you gave though I would prefer OP to FS for a lynch. I still think Manito is a better chance then either of them though at being scum.

vote manito

for now. More posting comes later.

[Firestarter]

Well, that honestly isn't that surprising. However, lets take a look at the votes.

Vote: FS

FoS: Orange Penguin

Wanted to know who'd be a good scumpartner for FS? Hint, its you.

If you were Town, I would say your being very blaise about this whole voting thing, Spyrex.....

You had a vote on me for some time, and as soon as the hammer presents itself, you do not hesitate to drop it... Not even waiting for a claim..

Now, thats basing it on you being town.

But there was a game I played with you recently, Ill find it and post a link, where the last thing you'd have done was drop the hammer like that....
Its against a town meta I have from you... Big time.

From the hammer, to your first post, post-hammer, and through the meta-read, you are behaving somewhat disgustingly scummy.

VOTE: Spyrex

[CF Riot]

SC who do you think is scum?

LF: What about Manito is scummy? He didn't vote for a townie that looked really suspicious?

[CF Riot]

FS, we cross posted. There's no point in waiting for a claim, because every town player is vanilla. I also thought I remembered you being strongly against meta earlier this game. What changed? Also, I'd say I told you so about the theory of me bussing KoC, but I was just as wrong because I thought he was going to be scum.

@KoC, I really misread you. But I told you I wouldn't flip-flop from FS to kill you, and I kept my word.

[LlamaFluff]

LF: What about Manito is scummy? He didn't vote for a townie that looked really suspicious?

Apart from what I have been saying for a large part of this game, D2.0 he added 1) Lots of lurking 2) The fact that he calls KoC everything but scummy as the wagon on him is forming 3) Staying off all major wagons again to the extent where he hardly commented on FS or KoC

[SpyreX]

If you were Town, I would say your being very blaise about this whole voting thing, Spyrex.....

You had a vote on me for some time, and as soon as the hammer presents itself, you do not hesitate to drop it... Not even waiting for a claim..

I'm being very blase because this GAME has been being very blase. We've hit a rut and maybe jamming a spark into it by lynching KoC (even if the end result is I get lynched for it) is something for people to look at.

As for the claim? Really? What did you want me to wait for? Him to claim town like every other one of us since there are no power roles? This is fishing for another reason to vote me and, well, just makes me comfortable with my vote.

But there was a game I played with you recently, Ill find it and post a link, where the last thing you'd have done was drop the hammer like that....
Its against a town meta I have from you... Big time.

Again, meta is retarded. If you think I'm going to play the same game, well, silly silly. On top of that, however, the fact that you'd use the polygamist game (with a max of 2 days) for me to not drop the hammer quickly... well, its a different beast... AND of course there is the fact I DID drop the hammer day 1. So, I'm not sure what you're shooting for there.

What makes you say that?

Yesterday as the push was coming on FS OP started with the "if its him, then who would the partners be" as a deflection from the lynch which (really) worked for the day. It was enough that made me think there was a connection between the two of them and with KoC coming up town it increases my belief in it being a scum connection.

I will look into Manito more - I still, like I've had most game, a busy town read but I could be wrong.

[orangepenguin]

Wait - so I'm FS's partner because I was voting for KOC before it became popular (unless 3 votes is "popular") and then decided to get all analytical and ask people some question and therefore caused everyone to jump on Koc, Ignore FS, and lynch him. I guess I made you hammer too. I was hardly a deflection, if anything. I think most people ignore my posts, since they offer little to no content most of the time. If people are being "deflected" that's scummyness on their part, not mine, for just tunnel-vision onto one person.

Before FS's vote before, I don't think Spyrex has had any votes on him, let alone any suspicion. (correct me if I am wrong, I am going off of memory). He is one of the few original non-replaced players and has since posted enough to "help out" but not enough to be considered active, like armlx or LF have been. I don't like how he hammered after voting FS, and then turn around and blame others for the mislynch. I think he is right though. There is scum on the wagon. It's him. (and the me/fs partnership seriously comes out of left field).

Vote: Spyrex

[Manito]

Wow, Llama.

I say I don't get a strong enough scum read on KoC (not compared to my scum read on FL, not by a long shot), and you vote me for it? This is the second time you've voted for me based on pretty shaky reasoning, what's the deal?

Yeah, I've been "lurking" - the whirlwind of getting married, and finding out I'm going to be a father and everything that is attached to that would make anyone appear as a "lurker" - at least I've tried to stay here and active as possible given my time constraints, rather than ask for a replacement (which ruins the game in my opinion, you have to go from reading a person one way, to a brand new person who may speak an entirely different way) - I've striven to keep my play here as continuous as possible, so I'm a suspect for it?

Ok man...if that's how you want to view it...

Vote: FaerieLord

For reason previously stated...again...and again, and again...

[LlamaFluff]

I say I don't get a strong enough scum read on KoC (not compared to my scum read on FL, not by a long shot), and you vote me for it? This is the second time you've voted for me based on pretty shaky reasoning, what's the deal?

The main point is what you said about KoC just struck me increadably scummy. You admit that he has been very scummy but you say you still had a "town" read on him. Apart from this odd stance on KoC, for the most part you avoided any real stances on most big wagons except for the FL one, which was only a temporary one.

By avoiding the main two wagons of the day (FS and KoC) you dont have to take responsability for any town flip on either of them. If there is a scum flip, when you say things like you did about KoC, you can cite that as suspicion of him, even though you thought that FL was a more likely scum flip.

Your LoS was also scummy in nature to me since it was basically FL-K7-lurker. FL was expected to be a wagon forming so that is a commitnent. The K7 and Joubert pushes though never occured, and I dont think were ever intended to. During the day (at least to me) you should of been happy with a push on any of your LoS. If suddenly halfway during 2.0 people wanted a manito lynch, I would of welcomed it with open arms, I also would of gone for one if that KoC push didnt get him lynched.

I know IRL constraints can be a pain, and (thankfully?) I am a student. I will always try to post though at nights, even if it is just a thought about what has been happening. My bigger posts usually take a day or so to make because I cant find the time between a full load of harder classes and work. While I cant fault you too much for having a rough IRL patch, what I do have a harder time with is how your posting got fairly prolific around the time KoC was getting lynched, and it mostly spoke ill of the lynch.

The fact that you also were comparing KoC to armlx in vote movements also doesnt make much sense. Most of the votes that KoC moved around were not on a deadline like your post would of had us belive. Armlx made a more deadline/action vote. The fact that you call KoC town from this and armlx odd but "not enough to vote" feels like planting seeds of doubt and trying to look good before a KoC lynch... and at this point I am rambling so stop.

[Firestarter]

@ Spyrex...

Yes, the call for a claim is misguided considering theres only town & scum.

But when KoC had the 2nd from lynch vote, it was mentioned in the post as..
(b)lynch minus one(/b) if Im not mistaken.

On my limited time on MS that usually signifies that the lynchee should speak out, and make a last plea for survival...
In a game with LF, I was one from lynch, and was left room for a plea...
I succesfully negotiated that hurdle, and caught scum, and was town.

Im not basing any meta on JUST you laying a hammer down...
In the other game, you were much more methodical in your approach to votes/lynches, in this game, you are the oppposite, regardless of the type of game it is.

As for meta, it wasn't something I was prepared to look at early on in my time on MS, but everyone seems to be using it...
I may have been a bit naive when I said I wasn't one for meta, but Ive played a game with you, and I can see benefits of it.

The first benefit has to do with you Spyrex, and your very noticeable difference in playstyle in this game to the other.

You play for the hammer, and your subsequent post after KoC was revealed as town is really scummy in my eyes, and dare I say it, one of the MOST scummy plays in this game to date.
Didn't you say something along the lines of

"Im not surprised"

, referring to KoC's alignment????
Thats real scummy....

And now you've gone and hopped on the 2nd most popular wagon pre-lynch...

Not only that, but you've been very clever with your appearances into the thread, I would say you've done enough to go unnoticed however...
Again, this is in direct contradiction to the last game I played with you, you posted alot more frequently, and alot more constructively....

BTW, the hammer you speak of in that game, Polygamist mafia, that you dropped, you told all and sundry that you would be doing that if the hammer was there, about 24 hours prior to doing so...
What you did here, again, is completely different to what your stating...
It simply was NOT the same thing.

@ CFR...
My theory of you bussing Koc was wrong....
But my problem at the time, was that you failed to see any scuminess/failed to act on KoC... He was being scum-tastic at times.

Ive now a new target I wish to pursue however.. you can now sleep peaceful at night knowing this..... For now.