Mini 660 - Star Trek: DS9 Mafia (Ruined = Over)

[sekinj]

Lynch all liars is awful. It only works on badly playing scum and they're the kind you can catch with other methods. It also has a tendancy to catch misguided townies and I'm yet to be convinced that a misguided townie is better dead than alive, because warm bodies are what we be needing.

qft

[Timeater]

Um, no.

@td Didnt know what you meant by ACK, I see now.

[Light-kun]

We're pushing the Sekinj vote, get with it people. If it doesn't go anywhere, we lynch Light-Kun (multiple FoS's, multiple scummy statements, admitted liar, flounderer). Lets just get things moving. Both are totally viable IMO and both are worthy lynchees. Requesting count, Deli. Ooba the game isn't that long and you've yet to post *bitchslap*.

1. FoS: Two of them are from you for worthless reasons.

2. multiple scummy statements. Actually, this is new. Would you care to show examples?

3. liar. Yes, everyone lies. It is an infliction of the human condition.

4. Flounderer... what?

[Timeater]

1. FoS: Two of them are from you for worthless reasons.

A FoS is never worthless.

2. multiple scummy statements. Actually, this is new. Would you care to show examples?

Do I even really need to with such a weak retort? Other people seem to have been doing that just fine. Why so defensive?

3. liar. Yes, everyone lies. It is an infliction of the human condition.

The human condition eh? Since when does the "human condition" have anything to do with a mafia game over the internets? You trying to pass off a lie as just a character flaw or just "apart of life" is pretty scummy.

4. Flounderer... what?

floun·der1 [floun-der] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used without object)

1. to struggle with stumbling or plunging movements (usually fol. by about, along, on, through, etc.): He saw the child floundering about in the water.
2. to struggle clumsily or helplessly: He floundered helplessly on the first day of his new job.

[Timeater]

Unvote
Vote Light-Kun

[Light-kun]

People get lynched due to votes, not FoS, and the *reasons* are worthless. well, the two from you are anyway.

Yes, I lied. Get over it. (And that was a paraphrased quote from House, virtually meaningless.)

I know what it means, just not a hundred percent how it applies to me. I haven't floundered, just gotten rather pissed off that you keep attacking me for no real reason.

[Ozymandius]

I hate to say it but I can't do this anymore. I just don't have the time.

Mod, please replace me.

[M4yhem]

You can't just say 'get over it' Light-kun. You lied, which is anti-town. Maybe if you explained why the heck you thought you needed to lie about something so trivial, I would understand, but at the moment it seems extremly scummy.

[ZONEACE]

vote light kun

lying is bad, i don't care if people don't like lynch all liars. I don't let liars slide. It just hurts the town too much.

[Light-kun]

I suppose it wasn't a need to lie exactly. Lying wasn't the point.

Up to that point, there wasn't a lot going on. The way I see it, if people think they are being suspicious (if scum), they might be inclined to participate more...

As for people who would be town (and maybe some scum would do this, but it didn't matter who) someone would attack me for not listing who I found suspicious. At the time this happened, I figured I could generate a reason to find some people suspicious, but no one had actually caught my eye in a reread...

The only thing I noticed is that there was a lot of null, so I didn't really come up with anything worth holding back on who I suspected. In short, my lie = failure, and potentially, a waste of time... to a point.

I find Time's statement of lynch all liars being "tried and true" as mildly suspect. Lynch all liars just seems like a way for scum to easily lynch townies who screw up or are just general screw offs. Granted, town can take a small loss of townies (and this is necessary, usually, for town to win), but lynch all liars seems like a waste of a lynch.

As a side note, I agree with Liam on the lynch all liars issue.

Anyway, I am going to start a pbpa, and I want it to be its own post. So I will acknowledge any responses to this *after* my next post.

[Timeater]

Lynch all liars is tried and true. Any experienced mafia player will tell you that. I've been playing mafia for about two years I think I know what I'm talking about. There are downsides to the motto/rule-to-live-by, but there are also upsides. Like I said, it teaches townies that lying is generally a bad idea for a townie, no matter the cause - because it interferes with scumhunting. Also its not kosher to let a liar slide. When you spot a serious mistake or discrepency with someone's playstyle or post, it is your duty as a good townie to jump on that and try to get the liar lynched. Thats solid play. You've really done more than enough pbpa's, they're starting to seem forced. I've gotten all I need from out of you at the moment. The sekinj lynch is going nowhere so you're the next best thing. Sorry.

[ZONEACE]

Lynch All Liars is also a way for the town to GET RID OF DISRUPTIVE DISTRACTING AND ULTIMATELY HARMFUL MEMBERS OF THE TOWN.

There's no reason to keep them around and frankly, for me its you or sekin.


also, just so theres no confusion, since i never unvoted

unvote vote light-kun

Frankly, if you are a townie i'd be fine with that, because even thought we'd be down 3 townies tomorrow, 2 of them would have been distractions.

[ChannelDelibird]

"I can't leave it, it's all that I have. My personal mementos, my family album, my Vote Count..."

sekinj (4): M4yhem, CallMeLiam, frelaras, td

Light-kun (3): farside22, Timeater, ZONEACE
td (1): Ozymandius
frelaras (1): sekinj

Not voting (2): ooba, Light-kun

With 11 alive, 6 votes will lynch.

*sigh* I'll look for a new Ozymandius as well.

[Light-kun]

It is really late. And I finished an 8 page (on word) pbpa...and I am really uncertain of if I should post it or not... or rather, how I should post it... So, if you have ideas, feel free to post them... *yawns* but, I have to get up in three...maybe I can push four... hours, and I still need to right a conclusion. (I estimated 8 pages including my planned conclusion.)

So, yeah, suggestions on how to post it...

Is there a limit to how big a post can be...?

@zone and time: I disagree, but I will ask around after this game... (or at least, after I am not longer in it, whichever happens.)

See you guys tomorrow.

[ZONEACE]

Umm, I'd say do something like a page a post or something unless thats still ridiculously long for each post.

[CallMeLiam]

The sekinj lynch is going nowhere so you're the next best thing. Sorry.

Your vote would put Sekinj at L-1, I hardly call that 'going nowhere'. I also think that stopping pressuring the player you want to lynch and moving on is bad play for the town.

See my earlier post for why is disagree with your LaL plan.

[sekinj]

so.... I'd really rather not claim. Why do you guys think I'm scum again? because I made cases you didn't like? or because you don't like how i post my cases? people think I'm scum in evey single one of my games right now, so I get a little confused as to the reasons...

[ChannelDelibird]

Sotty7 replaces Ozymandius. I'm running out of superlatives, but show her some love.

[Light-kun]

*cracks knuckles and back*

Well, it IS a pbpa on Timeater, and the point of going over *EVERY SINGLE* post is to demonstrate how endlessly pointless and unhelpful his posts have been. *Instead* I am have decided to take out every post that is not necessary, unhelpful, or otherwise dispensable. Then, I will list every post that is pretty much unnecessary. It will still be a long post, but much smaller than the original 8 page mass.

[frelaras]

I'm voting for sekinj because of her erratic voting pattern, which seems to skip around, following the town around for convenience reasons. Her weak case on me seemed like it was built around answering a question and again seemed like she was trying to find lame reasons for going after a townie.

I really think it's in the best interests of the town to not waste momentum on a wagon. What's the point, if we don't end up with a claim or some kind of information from the suspect? A wagon doesn't mean you necessary think they should die, just that they're scummy enough to warrant being a suspect, and pulling back and diverting the town's energy seems pretty anti-town.

Basically I'm on the same page as Liam on this point. How novel.

That being said, Light-kun was calling me weird and that's beginning to seem a lot like the pot and the kettle. He could be a hyper-energetic, misguided townie or floundering scum at this point, I can't tell. I don't understand his reasons for lying about having a suspect, it's seems pretty trivial. Lynch all liars is a pretty good policy, but I'd consider a policy lynch second at this point.

[Light-kun]

*I know I'm weird. You are too!

Now on to it:

Pbpa on timeater.
Post 6:Random vote. Null
Post 14: response to a random vote, joking. Null
Post 24: Responds to an accusation that post 16 gave spoilers out. (It did). Speculates on Mod’s love of the show, and wonders why Zone is talking gibberish. Null.
Post 26: Reminds mod Nudude voted for him. Null.
Post 60: Tells Nudude not to give scum ideas on safe townie claims. (Worf, in this case.) Votes Jeb for saying, “I want to die” and the earlier bandwagon issue. ...slightly town.
Post 63: Wonders wtf I am. (I DIDN’T KNOW WE STARTED!!) Anyway... kind Null?
Post 84: “Zone what translator are you using? URL plz” m(_ _)m Null.
Post 88: “Think that translator is defective -_-” NULL.
Post 103: Explains that Jeb’s newb act isn’t going to cut it, and thinks this is best because people will start talking once they vote jeb.
Post 105: “That depends. But probably, yes. Most setups inform the mafia of their fellow scum partners. They wont be informed of an SK.” More speculating and answering post 104 from Nudude.
Post 107: Claims Jeb is trying to rationalize scum mistakes, but admits he could be wrong. Seems like an out.... Slightly pro town, but second part reads as scummy to me.
Post 109: Speculation on potential changeling abilities if they exist in the game. Still Null.
Post 111: Wants to know why people are voting him. (Blames voting stage) Slightly paranoid...? Nah, still null.

*******Break*********
Sekinj’s post:

The two biggest wagons are Tim and Jeb. I was going to vote for Jeb, but I looked back at his post in isolation, and really didn't see much scummishness. I looked back at Tim's though and I see some patterns (it is very early, so this may be premature).

Tim has posted a lot, but most of his posts lack any type of content, even his lastest ones. By page 5 we should start having from content (his changlings post is the exception). There is also a lot of coaching (Posts 7,9,20), asking questions without providing his own opinion (Post 17), and agreeing with others without much explanation (Post 19). These are his non-content posts: 1-6, first part of 8, 11-14, 16, 18.

He is also using buddying / non-offensive phrasology alot. examples: "I could be wrong, fo sho"
(post 21) and "if that makes any sense" (post 22).

Also his comment on his Jebus vote was "Let's see where this goes" (post 9).

for those reasons -

Vote: Timeater

*Break ends*****

Post 121:“I have the biggest post count in the thread so far”How in Dante’s nine circles of hell is this relevant? He FoS Sekinj for “bandwagoning” Look, even if I admit (and I do) that voting you because other people are voting you is stupid and wrong, I have to admit that his other thoughts are ...okay. Premature, but good. And you paretically chastise him for thinking . . . which looks bad on your part. *IF* you are not scum, let him snoop around and be able to securely say in his mind: He looks town. But, your reaction is slightly scummy.
Some garbage on Jeb.’s claim being believable or not, and that will determine his lynchability.

“I'm sorry for posting alot and trying to be helpful?” Okay, let me count: 25 posts (thus far). . . 9 of those are completely useless/pointless (and some of those are helpful, but not with content). Seriously, posting a lot=\= helpful. A few more are not much better than completely useless. *Note, Sekinj’s immediate response was this too. Personally, I think Sekinj should have pushed this further, but whatever.*

[Light-kun]

Post 127: Says massclaim d1=bad. (Good point!) Explains what he means, but I think he is a tad defensive... I really dunno what he was responding to.
Prods people, which is null.
Post 135: He questions Liam and where he got the idea that Liam is being forced to claim. I agree, this is actually a good, direct post. Slightly townie points.
Post 170: asks for vote count.... Null.
Post 172: asks if Jeb has anything to say? (Looks townie, but unnecessary so...) Null.
Post 179: Says claim is interesting and he needs to think. Nullish...townish?
Post 181: Explains Vic is convenient for scum, and wouldn’t need to explain why he is alive after a few days. In light of Jeb being honest and true, this could be slightly scummy, but it is slightly townie.... Hm... I will give reasonable doubt. Slightly town.
Post 187: Says that Vic should have access outside of Holosuits, which is slightly townie.
Post 188: Finds proof that Vic can monitor the station.
Post 190: Responds to a rather stupid thought from Zone. Null, but still... I like this post.
Post 192: Lays of Jeb. Slightly town.
Post 198: Agrees that events are occurring inside the station.
Post 202: Votes for Jeb for the reason that there are 9 main characters and Vic isn’t one of them. This is scummy to me for the sole reason that making all of the pro town players the main cast is a stupid idea. If that were the case, I would mass claim, and lynch everyone who’s claims seems odd. Additionally, he is hinting that he is going to claim a main cast character (otherwise, he would realize that non main cast players are in the game.) Gr... I don’t like this post... so, slightly scummy.
Post 204: tells zone to stop being a bitch (love this part).
He then goes back on post 202 saying that there are more popular minor characters to pick... which... is slightly scummy because he back tracks on his reason for voting Jeb, but he refuses to consider that Vic is viable claim because of more popular characters.. Since when has a character’s lack of popularity been a reason to vote someone claiming that character.. Especially when it is a tracker role...
Post 214: Claims that asking “Where does it say that there are nine main characters” is “WIFOM” Granted, not answering is scummy, but I am missing the need for “WIFOM” to be brought in... A tad defensive, but null.
Post 217: Says Zone has been hinting at being Martok for a while, which I didn’t know... *Figured it was some sort of Klingon.* So, yeah. Maybe scummy, maybe not... Going with null
Post 224: Proves beyond all reasonable doubt that Zone is hinting at being a Klingon.
Post 256 (16^2! Or, 4^3!): He “expected” martok to kill someone... great. That is just fabulous . . . and unbelievable. But whatever. Will FoS anyone who “ninja” lynches Zone until day vig occurs.
Post 261: Attacks Liam as being confusing and undermining character claims. Townie.
Post 273: Wants to pressure vote non posters.
Post 296: “

FoS Light-Kun

for trying to disassociate himself from lurkers when he himself only has 11 posts.” Okay, that is great, sorry we don’t all post as much as you do. Oh, and sorry I wasn’t present for the first 3 pages. That may or may not have anything to do with my comparatively low post count.
Post 298 (and note, td did not post 297): He unvotes td because he is prodded, and then moves vote back to Liam where he feels comfortable with it. Why did he not do this in 296? I guess to look active. I don’t really know.

[Light-kun]

Post 322: Thinks we should vote Liam by Liam’s own logic. Asks for a URL for proof on something. (I think it was the 25 play DS9 game)
Post 224: “Quark couldn’t be scum.”
Post 225: “Well he could if he were a changeling.” *Headdesk* Waste of time.
Post 331: Defends Quark as a good guy. Asks to be trusted because “he knows what he is doing” and is “generally good at it[scumhunting]” Yeah, I doubt you are town, at the moment, so I won’t be doing either. This seems like a misguided townie argument, or scum trying to get the masses to follow him. (Masses being our little town, of course.)
Post 342: Defends lynching all DS9ers.
Post 343: Ebwop, he corrects to be “non” DS9ers.
Post 351: One of Time’s actually good posts. He almost completely shuts down Liam’s attack on him, but I think that some of Liam’s ideas were good, most notably, about the changelings. Assuming I understand this at all, I am guessing that he is saying say, [insert an obvious pro town player, like quark here] could be mafia because he is actually a scum. A lot like how Harry could be scum in a Harry Potter mafia. (This has happened, but I can’t recall source. It is from one of the games I’m in, maybe this one....)
Post 354: “Vote: Sekinj
For various reasons, some being apart of m4yhem's arguement.”
(Cept, his vote was bolded, just didn’t want to confuse mod.)Okay, this is crap. And when I pointed out the fact that this is crap, he responds:
Post 359: “Retrobution FoS on Light-Kun for trying to make it seem that my lack of content is suspicious” and “Do I really have to make super detailed posts every time I vote?” No, you do not, but if you have “various reasons” but only “some” are part of someone else’s arguments, then you clearly have your own reasons. SHARE THEM. (Note, I didn’t vote him or even FoS him, I comment that his post is suspicious because he claims to have more reasons but doesn’t post them.)
Post 364: States the obvious, says we need to lynch somebody, or just sit around and hope something happens. Suggests people would be less inclined to leave if they were scum, which makes me think that if he is scum, then farside is scum... (because “mana/pie were less likely to replace out if they were scum” is a bullshit argument for clearing someone, and is convenient way to clear a scum buddy.)
Post 379: Thinks little of gender in mafia.
Says he’ll look into coaching accusations between mana and frelaras(I think?). Further dislike of scum lists.

Post 398: Questions my vote on Liam. (Well, and I don’t think you were paying attention the first time, so I post this again: I don’t watch DS9, so who the f**k is Quark, and why is he town? Secondly, Liam, himself, said that character claims are useless and someone else mentioned that it only helps scum figure out the town’s abilities. Third, he made a post that can be seen as suspect, and I voted him *UNTIL* he replied, which is the only reason I voted him at all...*ROAR*)
Post 411: I am building myself into a hole apparently. Oh, well. I can expect town to agree with him in the next, oh, I dunno, 20 posts(sarcastic, not necessarily my real thought process)? “I think he realized the Liam vote was a little silly for a townie to do and backed off it.” WTF? I said in every post (including the one I voted for Liam IN) that I voted ONLY because he voted Sekinj without posting real reasons. (BTW, why the hell did you FoS me for being suspicious of you? If I vote someone without giving reasons, would you not attack me? Should I have done that instead of having (and giving) a reason? Don’t worry, I’ll wait.)
Post 421: Defends lynch all liars . . . Sorry, but this is fail to me. You keep making reference to this experience you have, etc,etc... yeah, I don’t give damn if you have experience. I will disagree, and it is going to take a lot more than a few scenarios where it *worked* to change my mind.
*ACK discussion is null.*

[Light-kun]

Post 428: Claims FoS are never worthless *I have yet to see someone lynched for having X number of FoS. Usually, it takes votes to do that. But maybe his two years mafia experience has found a case where they did something.*
Won’t provide examples of scummy statements. Well, yeah, I guess it is easier to beat someone who can’t defend themselves...
Goes on about being a liar. (As a partial point, I suppose my response could be taken as a worthless reminder of House or that town lies too. Both good.)
Insults my intelligence of the word flounder
Post 435: Tires of my Pbpas, because they seemed “forced”
Wait... hold on... I can do this...
Sorry, still can’t give a damn what you think of me.
Oh, but I did decide to ADDRESS what you said. I have made TWO, count’em TWO PBPAs. Neither were forced... (3, now, of course)

44/94 posts excluded, meaning that about 46% of his posts are worthless/meaningless/stating the obvious. (Some are only necessary because of an unnecessary post, and thus, are counted as worthless.) Of the above, they are mostly null or ambiguous posts that could go either way depending on his actual alignment.

Post 172-204 looks like one big wishywashy line of thinking so that he can inevitably vote Jeb, while being able to say that there is some reasonable doubt on his guilt. This looks like a set up and seems scummy. All the post before Post 60 are null due to RVS.

Post 111, post 121, and post 359 are all examples of response that show mild paranoia due to vote or suspicion him.

He spends three posts, 217, 224, and 256 explaining that Zone is a klingon or has hinted at having the role, eventually deciding it would be Martok.

For post 411, post 421, post 428, post 435, post 296 and post 359 are all designed to attack me, but he either lacks a (real) reason to attack me or refuses to give them for whatever ploy he has. But, he votes me because:
296: I “disassociate myself from lurkers when I only have 11 posts”
359: For “trying” to make his lack of content seem suspicious.
411: I am digging myself into a hole because Liam vote was silly and when I realized this, I backed off.
428: Maintains that I have made scummy statements, but won’t/can’t provide examples. Claims FoS are not worthless, and claims his 2 years of mafia experience makes him great... or something...
421, 435: Defends lynch all liars. Uses this to vote me, claims Sekinj lynch is going no where, thus I am next best thing, and that my pbpas are tired and forced.

Response:

296: I am tired of responding to this. First: I post, roughly, once a day. You can post 20 times a day all you want, I don’t care. But, I am not altering my life so I can post more, it isn’t happening.
359: You voted without providing original reasons, yet you claimed to have them. So, yes, I am going to question you on that. What I just love though, about this post, is you act as though I voted for you because of your vote post, but I didn’t even FoS. Looks like *this* is an overreaction.
411: I said, in the post in which I voted Liam: “Unless you explain why you found it unhelpful and why you disliked his post, I find this to be fairly scummy. It went relatively unnoticed (with the exception of Sekinj), which surprises me.” Hence, my vote on him was until he explained his post. People asked me about my vote, I EXPLAINED IT. This, more or less goes away, and the moment I see Liam’s post, I unvote (and wanted to focus on Sekinj) when you attack me.
428: You won’t provide examples because of a weak retort.... oh, yes... I get your plan. You take away my ability to argue your opinions, and I’ll get lynched without a fight. Why? Because you are so good at scum hunting and have two years of mafia experience. Whatever. This is just a ridiculous post. The only thing you can give any weight to voting me for is lying.

421, 435: I do enjoy the fact that by this point you kind of realize that your case on me is actually a single lie. But, since lynch all liars is pretty flawed, I am just going to leave this at disagreement.

YOU on the other hand are fairly paranoid, you active lurk, you assume that just because you have been good at scum hunting before that people should trust you. Well, I find these qualities to be scummy. Additionally, every time you vote someone, you will proceed to give reasonable doubt on there scumminess. (With Liam, you just think he is anti-town for attacking you *that is my read on the post, with Jeb you vote him but give yourself an out, with Sek, you indicate it probably won’t work and that I am next. So, either you will actually follow through with me, or give yourself an out. Heaven forbid you commit to your actions.)

Due to these reasons, I think that he is probably scum, and I will

Vote Timeater

.

*Sorry for this exceedingly long analysis, but with all the time this took, I was sure as hell going to post it.

[Timeater]

lol a pbpa on me? Wow you must really feel threatened then.

Your vote would put Sekinj at L-1, I hardly call that 'going nowhere'. I also think that stopping pressuring the player you want to lynch and moving on is bad play for the town.

See my earlier post for why is disagree with your LaL plan.

Ack, I did not realize sekinj was at four votes. I will change for L-1. I still have my eye on Light-Kun though. I'm looking forward to destroying any rhetoric based bs-post me may send out against me. 8 pages. lol.

Unvote
Vote Sekinj

So that leaves Sekinj at 5 votes.