Mini 671 - Dwarf Fortress - Game Over!

[Ramus]

/confirm

[Ramus]

Trust me when I say that that kind of disaster in Dwarf Fortress is absolutely normal. If the game can screw you over, it will.

[Ramus]

Before more confusion starts, what the heck happened last game?

[Ramus]

Ramus, TE is just over-eager sometimes and has very very very little patience.

Whatever then.
Anyway, random voting sucks, so....



Punch of Suspicion at Roffman for apparently loving bandwagoning early. Care to explain why? Because I personally find early bandwagons a bad idea due to the fact that they don't allow us to get much information and end the day way too fast.

[Ramus]

Nah, I've got a lot more than just that image at my disposal. Don't worry, you'll see plenty more.

[Ramus]

The entire point for an early bandwagon is to get some sort of discussion happening and end the random voting stage

Well, apparently you weren't doing it so well cause it didn't end the random voting.

[Ramus]

I'm currently laughing at the logic going around right now.

iLord already had 2 votes before you voted for him, Tuberkulos, so that last point is invalid.

Meantime, iLord votes Tuber for bandwagoning just for the sake of it despite the fact that Tuber says that he was trying to get discussion going. Also, the chances of us hitting scum the first day are very low. Therefore, I'd shoot for having as much discussion (read: chaos and pointing fingers) as possible the first day and avoid ending it too soon. This way we at least get plenty of information.

So, I think I will refrain from voting either right now since Tuber is at L-2 and I don't need an idiot to end the day early and iLord doesn't so much strike me as scummy as just offensive playing townie. Anyway, I'm just going to shoot for the fact that iLord is being overly eager and trying to get Tuber to cough up some evidence and that Tuber is also being overly eager, attempting to get discussion going with bandwagoning.

Also: Reborn, read the topic and find out for yourself.

[Ramus]

Sorry for typo above, switch the refrain from voting comment on Tuber and iLord. iLord is at L-2 and Tuber is being overly offensive.

[Ramus]

Oh geez, I feel like an idiot after reading my last post. Sorry about that, I was up rather late and not thinking straight. Anyway, to the topic at hand.

Oh hang on, Tuber is newbie. That really messes up my read on him. The scummy things he's done can also be passed off as newb town thus rendering them null.

Especially the OMGUS, that's classic newb town.

So, can I ask what behavior differences you find between newbs and inexperienced challenged? I currently find it a bit unclear of where you stand on that right now.

[Ramus]

So essentially a get out of jail free card?

Tim was delicious. :O

*Shoves a stopper down Timeater's mouth*

[Ramus]

Meantime, iLord votes Tuber for bandwagoning just for the sake of it despite the fact that Tuber says that he was trying to get discussion going. Also, the chances of us hitting scum the first day are very low. Therefore, I'd shoot for having as much discussion (read: chaos and pointing fingers) as possible the first day and avoid ending it too soon. This way we at least get plenty of information.

Tuber's word means little - scum are not going to admit that they are scum.

So? It doesn't stop scum from doing something stupid and slipping up. The more we talk, the better chance we have of scum slipping up.

So, I think I will refrain from voting either right now since Tuber is at L-2 and I don't need an idiot to end the day early and iLord doesn't so much strike me as scummy as just offensive playing townie. Anyway, I'm just going to shoot for the fact that iLord is being overly eager and trying to get Tuber to cough up some evidence and that Tuber is also being overly eager, attempting to get discussion going with bandwagoning.

Also: Reborn, read the topic and find out for yourself.

Never vote just for the sake of getting discussion going. Vote because you think you found scum.

Actually, no. If I vote, it's because I think I found a lead. Therefore, by voting on that lead, I might find more information and be able to pick up another lead or get closer to finding scum.

[Ramus]

What are we arguing about?

Good question. I'll get back to you on that later.

[Ramus]

Ramus: What is your stance on early bandwagons? You said before that they end the day early, but to me, that's not true since a bandwagon is not equal to a lynch.

Hmm, I guess I was unclear there. I don't like early bandwagons since they borderline killing and keeping the bandwagoned person alive. If done properly, they stack up very fast and can hang at L-1. And I'm very willing to believe there is someone here dumb enough to hop onto the wagon and lynch the person off of a false gut feeling, ending the day early without much information.

In short, my policy is to keep the days long and circulate as much talk as possible, and that the talk should be relevant to the game while you're at it. Timeater's "I haven't read much yet" comment is killing me.

I have played many ascii games similar to it.

Except nothing like it.
Also, Timeater, do something serious. We want your thoughts on the situation too. And Mariyta also, why did you vote to be third person?

And lastly, CoheedCambria (which I will for now on shorten to Co Cam), ever thought that your experience may be radically different from others? I recommend widening your view a bit.

[Ramus]

Oh boy! Drama! And a lot of catching up for me to do.

Anyway, regarding the current Bob VS Tim.

I'm currently more capable of seeing Bob as a smart (if not very rash) townie who just managed to get tangled up in a mess with Tim. I'm currently siding with him.

Tim, however, with that unnecessary claim so early, because claiming doesn't confirm you town. I'm not sure if you're just a really bad townie or a panicking scum.

Strike 1 on Roffman for trying to misrepresent me.

I also don't like it when you say this and later go and twist cyberbob's posts
(namely the worming comment).

Any thoughts on Tim?

[Ramus]

Posts like this irritate me. The age old "dumb or scum" line. I'm probably double the player you'll ever be. You dont know how I play and you dont know my playstyle. Go ahead, side with Bob because he uses ad hominem attacks and pompous words like "anaphoric". That totally makes him smart and a good not-rash player.

I'm not trying to be a jerk. Sorry if I am coming off that way, because I'm really trying not to, heck, I haven't even voted for you yet, see anything from that? It's just a game. Go ahead and call me whatever you want, but I'd just like to play Mafia.

Also, quit with the appeal to emotion. Now, I'll ask:

What makes you not scummy?

And...

What makes cyberbob scummy?

Once again, sorry if I'm being a bit offensive, but please, let's keep the game enjoyable.

[Ramus]

Also, quit with the appeal to emotion. Now, I'll ask:

Why did you feel the need to make this statement?

Mainly because I didn't want to sound submissive. Therefore, I guess I tacked that on so I didn't sound guilty. After all, it was just a misinterpretation, so I'll just call it that.

It was also because he was indeed using appeal to emotion and throwing insults at me without any real evidence to back it up, and I prefer not to have bad karma this early in the game.

[Ramus]

Taking a quick break from homework to do some of this...

@Roffman

What does a cook do? I don't know but you apparently do.
Also, ya lost me with the catch scum logic there.

@Timeater

OFF TOPIC: I don't even know what giddy means, which is ironic since I hear the word all of the time.

1. affected with vertigo; dizzy.
2. attended with or causing dizziness: a giddy climb.
3. frivolous and lighthearted; impulsive; flighty: a giddy young person.

I'll take it as a good thing.

Anyway, cyberbob's four person accusation is a valid point but not enough to really do anywhere. However, as far as insults go, I guess that's a part of cyberbob that we'll have to endure. However, I think I'll take note of the fact that he only seems to do that (atleast he does it a lot more) when being attacked.

@reborn

Stop sitting by the side and looking innocent. Get some meat into those skinny posts. And I want lean meat, not the fatty, pointless stuff kind.

@CoCam/Coheed

I'm getting no signal from you and you were fast to jump off that bandwagon. Any reason why?

@Mariyta

Quit meta-gaming. It doesn't work.


Anyway, current suspicions of mine sit on Roffman mainly since I don't get the townie/mafia trade off idea at all and his cook claim... thing? Either way, can I get a bit more info on those two subjects?[/ooc]

[Ramus]

Meta - in the last mini theme I played in modded by Claus I was scum in a group of three - we all had safe claims - one very safe, one medium, one risky.

And your point is? This game is entirely different.

[Ramus]

Meta - in the last mini theme I played in modded by Claus I was scum in a group of three - we all had safe claims - one very safe, one medium, one risky.

And your point is? This game is entirely different.

Same mod, same game-type. It would be remiss of me not to mention it.

Whatever, it's your view, but really out guessing the mod? It just doesn't work.


And CoCam, you should better start building a strong case around someone because you're looking pretty useless right now and even worse with that half attempt at excusing yourself.

[Ramus]

cyberbob's four person accusation is a valid point

I fail to see how. All I was doing was getting myself caught up on the game and pointing out the scummy actions I noticed. You're confusing "accusing" with "directing attention to", which are very different beasts indeed.

Or would you rather I let one or two people's moves slide for the sake of avoiding this "shotgun approach"?

Shotgun approach? Either way, I prefer to focus my attention on one person at a time if I decide to get offensive. Maybe a second person tacked on if s/he is note worthy. If it's really necessary, I can always go back and get evidence from past posts.

EBWOP:

However, as far as insults go, I guess that's a part of cyberbob that we'll have to endure.

I'll thank you not to take one outburst and go on to say it's something I always do. I don't see any such mention of Timeater, which I would if you were at least being consistent.

Did I already mention him getting angry? Yay for more implied but not actually insults.

Coheed doesn't read like scared, panicking townie - he reads like scared, panicking scum.

Townies under pressure either ignore it, explode, or break down. Scum under pressure could do the same things (especially if they are skilled players), but they also have a tendency to back away and to attack others, which is exactly what Coheed did. Townies who are afraid of being lynched tend away from deflection and more at emotional outbursts.

For example, Town or Scum Coheed under pressure could start screaming at the town, but only Scum Coheed would attempt to deflect and back away.

Yeah, but wouldn't a scared townie also back down? After all, there's not pressure YET so there would be no reason to explode or breakdown. And he's not ignoring it, assuming he's townie, he could just be an easily swayed townie. Either way, he's still rather scummy at this point, but I'm still saying, a townie backing down is not unusual, especially the first day.

[Ramus]

I know its not the same, what I was trying to say with that is that his logic was wrong. Its all on the player what they do, theres no set of, If X does this then their Y and if X does this then their Z

Well, there's better ways of proving someone wrong. Besides, at this rate you're digging yourself into a hole, and seeing as there's no viable defense strategy at this point in the game, you should make it your priority to get attention onto someone else.

Just a tip. Either way, you have one more post to give me a reason not to vote you since you've done nothing but make lame excuses. Heck, even the townie backing off doesn't seem all that likely anymore after that attempt to break iLord's logic.

Using ending the random phase as an excuse to vote is extremely scummy - I've seen many a scum do that.

I don't get how it is scummy, since if scum wanted to vote someone, wouldn't they use the random phase (not ending the random phase) as an excuse to vote? Also, I don't get what is the point of this statement, since I don't really see how it applies to Tuberkulos.

I don't see how ending the random vote phase is a bad thing at all. It's probably one of the best things to happen to the town on the first day. Random votes only seem to cause disputes if anything and don't bring up evidence. Therefore ending random voting seems pretty townie regardless of how it's done (with the exception of lynching someone).

[Ramus]

then lynch...

. . .

Vote: CoheedCambria09

[Ramus]

Why do you think you can steal the SK and Vig's kills, but not the Mafia?

I'd assume it's because of:

1. It's an ability that's physically stuck with the Godfather. Unlike other skills, this is permanent.

2. The mafians on a whole decide who to kill and thus there is no one Godfather.

Either way, I don't believe CoCam, so my vote is going no where anytime soon.

[Ramus]

Well, if he turns out to be town, let this serve as another example of "don't try to outguess the mod".

When did we try to out guess the mod? I just voted CoCam because he was suspicious. Heck, if you're trying to out guess the mod, you're already screwed. Meantime, I wouldn't assume this to be bastard mod set up since I don't see an extreme difference in advantage for any side right now, so I'd just say it's a case of the Dark Knight Syndrome.

In other words, your role name sucks and looks scummy, but you're town. This is done to avoid having Clouds always be town and Sephiroths always be Mafian and thus causing a bit of a game break.

I still won't believe CoCam to be town until we get the death results.

[Ramus]

Catching up... gah it sucks to miss out on Mafia for a day.


Anyway, at present, everyone is beating up on Tim and Tim getting paranoid. roffman and Tim seem to be a mason pair, scum pair, or just very trusting of each other for some reason.

On to the questions:

@Tim - Why was it good for the town to lose cyberbob? Also, why did you immediately assume scum were framing you? And what about Pesco rubs you the wrong way?

@Roff - How does your death prove Tim innocent? More so, how do you truly know he's innocent?

@sekinj - Why do I always see a pig nose when I look at your avatar instead of a cat? Also, I know this is redundant, but why iLord? And do you really believing lynching a townie is good for the game if said townie being useless or worse?

That's about it for now, I don't have much else to ask. Current suspicions are on roffman and timeater for their weird teaming up thing that seems to have no real reason as to why it was formed.

[Ramus]

and ahhh... well, my avatar is designed so that when people look at it the first thing they see is their deepest darkest fear, and then it resolves into my fluffy baby kitty cat... I guess you are scared of piggies...

Not really? Other than the fact that pigs are big and smelly, I have nothing against them. Bacon is good after all. <3

Anyway, the lynching townie argument is valid, though a bit reckless and blood thirsty. Though I still need why you went after iLord.

[Ramus]

I'm not convinced. Roffman and Timeater may have just gotten lucky and found each other to be townie, but it still seems to have happened a bit too well.

Also, I'm having trouble follow the logic of either of you, so...

##Vote: Timeater

Seems like a bad scum attempt at talking during the day or at least clearing themselves.

[Ramus]

Catching up...

Anyway, the town is at a near halt as far as discussion goes. I don't see reason to lynch sekinj YET, though it could definitely change in the future. As far as iLord is concerned, I also believe he's townie. The only people I see that are likely scum right now are roffman and Timeater, but even now, the point seems to be moot.

Either way, the game is getting boring right now and iLord is right, long days are not good for the town. But the thing is, I don't know how we're going to get a majority, let alone get talk going.

Look all I'm saying is that we need to get some discussion going, perhaps by voting or something to annoy someone.

[Ramus]

By YET I mean that I still reserve judgment that he could still be scum, in order words, there's still a possibility in the future for me to vote him, but right now I don't see reason to do so.

I'm just going to focus on roffman for now to get votes on him since at least a larger chunk of time is in favor of voting him than Timeater right now.

roffman should be obvious. Not only with his 90% sureness that Tim is town but still wants to lynch him but also his general weak reasoning. sekinj is distracting (examples please?), that weird and almost pointless fishing (so what DOES a cook do?), and some very strange logic that escapes me all together, such as this semi-famous quote:

You don't. The fact is that once Timeater has fully claimed, i'm more than happy to die to confirm him as town or scum.

@Timeater: If you really are a cook, then you would want to be night killed. Also, if scum only have one main target, it makes protective roles so much easier to target the right person.

How do you die to confirm him as town or scum?
Why would a possible power role want to be shot (or I guess hit over the head with a hammer in this case)?

Not to mention, how did you go from thinking Timeater was very likely scum to a nearly confirmed townie to a nearly confirmed townie that should be lynched?

[Ramus]

Unvote: Timeater
Vote: roffman

I find him scummy for his lame scum hunting tactics and poor logic. It's like a bad attempt at keeping the town in the dark or at least going around in circles.

[Ramus]

Why vote now?

Why not earlier?

Truth is that I forgot to. Don't ask me how I forgot to, but I did.

[Ramus]

Okay, awesome, we now have a hammerer in the game that probably is able to well, hammer. Either way, I'm not surprised by iLord's death, he seemed like a level headed townie to me that could analyze, and more so, it could be used as bait to vote for sekinj, a current suspect on many people's list.

With either of those possibly being true, I can't say there's much to derive from this death. Therefore, I'm going to moving on.

Timeater, my suspicions on him are now near zero since roffman is town. I honestly don't know who to look at now, therefore, I'm going to be busy reading past posts.

[Ramus]

Can we all agree that Roffman wasn't town aligned then?

I can't. What if he's just a power role?

KOC is a scummer with a doublevote and is the one who hammered Roffman before he could claim.

Why would I ask for a claim, then prevent it?
Can you prove that I'm a double voter?

KoC, the irony is that a town doesn't need definitive proof. Just keep that in mind.

I think Green means town, and blue also means town. One of these colours means pro-town power role imo.

Are you going to flip green too?

Blatant fishing alert.

It doesn't matter if it was sarcastic. It forced an answer, and anything except a careful answer would have given the scum information. I've got my eye on you.

But it would've also given town info if you turned out to be scum. Don't ever forget the vice a versa of stuff. Anyway, I'm currently feeling scum vibes from KoC for only defending himself and not actually looking for scum. Going by this, assuming he's scum, he has trouble looking for fake scum tells due to the fact that he has to make them sound legit. Assuming he's vanilla townie, he just having trouble finding scum. Assuming he's a power townie, he's placing his survival at a higher priority than finding scum. Either way, it's too early for me to vote him.

[Ramus]

Awesome, well then, what the heck did a Miner do? And I guess the whole cook partner thing goes up in smoke.

[Ramus]

oh neat, Claus actually gave clarification? Thats cool. Anyway I'm really leaning towards KOC and Pesco atm, dont know about you guys.

KoC I can see reason for, but why Pesco?

[Ramus]

Heck no! The last thing we need right now are mass claims. If there are anymore power roles that are useful, they're going to be hammered the next night. Even if we get another Kobold or something similiar, they'd also be lynched for looking scummy.

[Ramus]

It's day 3, in a mini. We've already lost 3 town. We're nearing LYLO whether we like it or not. It's mass claim time.

If memory serves right, you haven't claimed yet, have you? How about the person who suggests it does it first? Otherwise I'll have to assume this is scum fishing or some other tactic to get town to lynch another townie.

[Ramus]

Me claiming first will help the scum substantially. I say we vote on who goes first, and then go popcorn.

I vote for Pesco.

Quit trying to get around it. I won't claim, nor will Pesco, or likely anyone until you do. So claim or drop the idea.

[Ramus]

So am I on your list? I'm also fighting it.

[Ramus]

Nope, you're not on my list of top two suspects. You're just wrong.

I doubt that, in fact, this whole ordeal seems to be rather pointless and overall, I don't see this helping the town since scum have some rather safe claims for jobs. More so, it only tells scum who to kill next.

[Ramus]

*Sigh*

Oh well. Since there's going to mass claiming now, I think I will claim now.

Thikut Ukernomal, I am a Metalsmith, vanilla.

[Ramus]

@Ramus: KoC didn't pick yet, why did you claim?

Claiming was inevitable, it was going to happen, so heck, might as well now.

Also, Pesco, so you have the ability to stop someone from being lynched, right? I'm going to assume that means you can only do that person once per game or once every other day. However, can you save yourself from lynch?

[Ramus]

Explain how any of the roles have been related to their names.

Kobold Thief steals stuff. Directly related. Anymore examples needed?

My top suspect remains you, KoC, and I think Ramus might be scum because his negative reaction to a drawback-less mass claim earlier.

That would be called a bad case of meat world getting in the way of things. Midterms are coming up anyway for me so don't be surprised if my level of posting drops drastically.

[Ramus]

I dont like that suggestion Ramus. Sigh so many scummy posts the last few pages and no one seems to be picking up on whats going on. I'll make a comprehensive post tomorrow but geeze guys step back and think for a moment...

Get used to it, if you haven't noticed, our logical processing go in two very different directions.

I'm not keen on making my ability too obvious until I am ready to come out with it. Let's just say that scum can't win until I die, that is what my ability can do.

I have doubts about your role being that powerful. Not to mention, I doubt you can save yourself.

You have said "Scum can't win=/=town can't lose." Please explain how we're going to lose if the scum can't win?

And so they lived happily ever after...

In other words, a tie scenario. But I haven't seen Pesco's ability to stop day lynches or night kills, so...

I can think of a role that might mean scum can't win as long as Pesco is alive - Serial Killer?

I have some doubts about that, mainly since this is a relatively small game and no second deaths have occurred yet, but there's still a possibility.

Inhibitor keeps the game going until a win condition has been fulfilled and I decide to end the game. In another site where me and Ramus play, we've seen mafia win enough times already the score there is 1-6 (should be 0-7). I'd like to win as town for a change.

Yeah but the games are ALWAYS rigged, so moot point.

Claiming was inevitable, it was going to happen, so heck, might as well now.

This logic is kind of like, "we are all going to die at the end of our lives, so I might as well just suicide now". The order of claiming can make a big difference in the outcome of the game.

FoS: Ramus

Thank you for completely changing my point there. Assuming I'm scum, it'd be best for me to wait until last so that I can claim last. This makes me a lot safer since I will know no one has the role I claim (after all, everyone looks to have an unique role, vanilla or not). However, by going first, I run the risk of claiming a role that someone else might have, getting me lynched. By going first, I was hoping to prove to be a townie.

Also, I just noticed, Pesco, if scum outnumber town, they can just vote to lynch you, and thus end the game. You die during the day.

And KoC, if he hasn't claimed yet, have him claim. If he has, andersonw, please claim.

[Ramus]

I wouldn't be surprised if our three scum are all voting me right now.

Good point. They do seem to be hanging right at three, but it still seems a bit obvious. I'd shoot for more likely zero to two scum on you right now. One scum if you need an exact amount and that's assuming you are town. OR town has just picked someone they find to be scummy.

Also, nice propaganda attempt. I'd

Vote: Knight of Cydonia

for President any day.

Yes, I'm do

Vote: Knight of Cydonia

for lynch before anyone gets confused.

Also, Pesco, I'm still having trouble believing you. This third party survival deal thing seems way out of whack. Stopping the game from ending by living? What's your Dwarf (kobold, goblin, etc?) job?

[Ramus]

I think the hammerer is a third party role, possibly another part of Pesco's role.

Now you're making Pesco into a god.

Or at least a severe game breaker.

[Ramus]

sekinj is town then. Good news.

And how did you deduce that?

[Ramus]

Well, we can now assume that there are only two scum.

Don't know much more than that though. Back to reviewing previous days...

[Ramus]

You have got to be kidding me. Okay, before we go off and do something drastic:

Pesco, what's your dwarf's name and what's his/her career?

[Ramus]

I call bull shit on Pesco. This seems to be a set up to have all negative attention leave him. Heck, he's almost taken on the role of town leader, which would be really nice for scum as far as I can tell, he can twist the town which ever way he wants.

More so is the NK immunity, which is a nifty little excuse to why he doesn't die at night. Secondly, despite suspecting several people, he's never killed anyone at night. And I won't take "I killed the same people as the Mafia" for a few of those nights. As far as I could tell, the Mafia shot the most townie people (iLord being a prime example).

So Pesco, I reason to believe you're part of the Mafia. Until you manage to give me some reason not to believe you're just out to trick the town and win the game, I'm keeping my vote on you.

Vote: Pesco

As for the claim, at this point, claiming as far as I can tell, won't do us much at this point. Most people have already claimed and scum will just lie. Despite that, I'll claim anyway, it won't hurt me at this point.

Thikut Ukernomal, I am a Metalsmith, vanilla.[/b]

[Ramus]

You answered your own question. Now why should we believe you?

[Ramus]

I was referring to Day 3.

I had already set up my standing to the rest of town that I was suspicious enough to warrant not being NK'd. How many of you honestly thought I was town yesterday?

Seeing as the town was going to lynch you today after lynching KoC, I'm not.

However, the problem is deciding whether or not you're SK or Mafia. More so is the fact that you've set up a situation so rare and bizarre that several people aren't rejecting it, though they aren't embracing it either. After all, how often does a SK make a deal with the town?

And Tuber, I feel completely justified by throwing that vote out there. I do believe he's Mafian unless he's able to convince me otherwise.

[Ramus]

Pesco, if you haven't noticed, we're in or near end game. We've pretty much found out all we're going to find out from the claims. By extending this game longer than it needs to be, we're only giving scum time to wiggle out and get attention on someone else. Much to the effect of what you're doing. Answer Tuber's question already, there's little, if any, reason not to.

[Ramus]

Sigh...

Fine guys, we can look for other Mafians, but the fact stands that I think Pesco is a Mafian, not a SK. It seems a bit too well set up for a SK.

[Ramus]

Pretty close to that, but badass goblin warlords don't cry except for warcies.

Who of the other players are your scum possibilities, Sekinj?

I never promised images per say, but I did say I had a lot more.

[Ramus]

I promise, that isn't an animated image.

[Ramus]

I thought I killed iLord, but since the thief made me useless on day 1, I don't have any definitive proof of other NK-immunes or doc protects.

Was NK-immune SK, now only NK-immune S .

This is what most people see.

That's what I see in Pesco's posts.

Yes, to make up for my lack of images in the last 26 pages, I will be posting (not quite) absurd amounts for the most bizarre reasons.
===================================================


Anyway, since none of you are making much effort to find scum, I'll further point out problems in Pesco's story.

- CoheedCambria - Kobold Thief - Lynched D1

Go check the first post of the topic. Now, typically a thief acts at night, correct? That would leave the thief with no chance of stealing. However, even if CoCam could steal during the day, the chances are pretty slim that he would've chosen Pesco.

Seems a wee bit contrived and once again, nifty little excuse that he didn't kill at all so far, because the scenario just happened in such a way that he could take full advantage of it. And with the impossible to be night killed "ability," he's further made reason for the Mafia not to kill him, effectively making him

seem

useless.

Once again guys, this is just a set up by Pesco to look innocent and allow him to lynch a townie.

[Ramus]

i think pesco is scum and should die. but if there are two scum, I don't see the harm in killing the other one today, and pesco tommorrow. however, I can also see going with a pesco lynch today if we can't find anythign as convincing on someone else.

Hmm, well, let's look at yesterday:

"We'll lynch Pesco tomorrow."

Now we're in Lynch or Die time. Lynching him tomorrow will not help us if we lose today. And the fact you're suggesting lynching Pesco tomorrow even though you think he should die is slightly odd, no?

[Ramus]

@ Ramus: Who do you think my so-called scum buddy would be?

Either timeater or sekinj. However, I don't have nearly as much suspicion on sekinj, it was just due to the second to latest statement that seemed odd.

[Ramus]

Would you be happy with a Tim lynch then?

Not really, timeater is likely to be modkilled soon, so I want you dead in the meantime.

[Ramus]

Modkill unlikely, replacing just screws us all. Only scum would want me dead as soon as possible. I need another night to confirm that I can't kill to you all. Scum don't want to take those chances.

I don't see reason to replace this late in the game, but if that happens, meh, I have no clue what to do in that situation.

Also, nice gross generalization.

Lastly, you won't prove jack by having a free night since you probably have the option not to kill someone. Seems like another shot for the Mafia to kill someone.

[Ramus]

Ramus refuses to believe that I'm disarmed, so I entertain the possible outcomes of me still being capable of killing. Those prospects don't seem too good for scum if the lynch goes in town's favour and I nail the last guy. I wouldn't want that to happen either you know, I'd lose on the day's lynch.

Wrong Pesco. I currently believe you are part of the Mafia and making stuff up as you go to win the game. The fact of the matter is, you've been using a long string of little lies lately and hoping to cover them up with chance or some fallacy.

To prove that you're unarmed, you want us to vote no lynch today. Problem is, SKs can choose not to kill at night. More so, it seems like another shot for the Mafia to kill someone.

Not to mention the nigh unlikeliness that you got stolen from the first day, before a lynch was even cast. Also, what possible hint or reasoning lead CoCam to steal from you? Very little if any reasoning at all, it would be more likely by chance, that was a 1/11 chance of picking you.

Anything else I haven't pointed out yet?

[Ramus]

Ugh.

Fine, Mr. Claus,

can I have that toy I've always wanted for Christmas?

how much more time does Timeater have?

[Ramus]

As much as I hate Pesco right now and that fact that he'll live tomorrow, I can agree in voting for Timeater. He's been the second most likely Mafian on my list.

Unvote: Pesco
Vote: Timeater

[Ramus]

Topic put back into motion, hurrah!

Unvote: Riceballtail

Though I will put the vote back on if you don't manage to prove yourself innocent.

[Ramus]

I'm Minkot Kibzuden, Traveler, Hated Townie.

THERE IS NO TRAVELER IN DF!

VOTE:Tuberkulos

Hmm, good point there, but I'm still iffy on it since Tuber has actually done anything scummy. I'm not saying he's not scum, just that I haven't seen any scummy plays.

Also, from my current perspective, Pesco would be my next choice.

Of course.

I believe that Tuber is "The Hammerer", as he actually does not show up in any End of Day votecounts after D1.

O_o

Damn good point there.

Dwarves don't hate elves in DF.

I'm just going to laugh at this statement. Dwarves hate elves and elves hate dwarves, they just haven't gone into full war

yet.

I'm glad you know we're at LyLo, because I didn't.

We have... six people alive? It's pretty much assumed by the town at this point that we're in Lynch or Die time. Unless there's only one scum member, which is highly unlikely with 12 people.

Because I didn't vote those days.
Day 2; I never got the chance to vote. I hadn't made up my mind on who to vote, I wanted more to go on.
Day 3; I unvoted because I wanted to hear more from you. I was wondering on who to vote. I would've probably voted KoC though.

Regardless, that's pretty coincidental. However, so is Pesco, so moot point I guess.

Anyway, quick analysis of what we probably have here.

D1L - RB
D1N - Doc
D2L - Vanilla
D2N - Vig
D3L - Vanilla
D3N - Vanilla

Can you please tell me what RB stands for?



Anyway, despite the fact that Tuber seems like a scum possibility now, RBT has yet to convince me of his/her innocence. I withhold my vote for now.

[Ramus]

It's been about ten hours since Pesco has voted. Therefore, I'm going to assume Tuber isn't a hate townie and is currently at L-1, thus, not yet hammered.

Anyway, with the whole dream thing and the missing vote at the end of each day, I've felt that whatever made tuber seem townie before is gone, there's too much stacked against him at this point, so:

Vote: Tuber

Also, sekinj, got any evidence?
Andersonw, can we hear what's scummy?

At least riceballtail has been able to put some forward, you two have just been back there the entire game doing nothing but weakly pointing fingers.

[Ramus]

Well, Ramus making that vote makes me almost 100% sure of Ramus as scum now. Couldn't you have just waited until the mod made a votecount?

At least riceballtail has been able to put some forward, you two have just been back there the entire game doing nothing but weakly pointing fingers.

Weakly? Please explain.

Oh har, I'm guilty because I voted? If you haven't noticed, it's been ten hours. I, at this point, am getting a bit bored of the game since it's been dragging for a while. And besides, due to a large project coming up soon, I'd like to finish this ASAP as to avoid becoming as lurky as Timeater was.

And by weakly, I mean go back into the game and find me some posts where you didn't just go with the opinion and instead actually did some decent analysis yourself. You won't find very much.

Still need some real reasons as to why I'm scummy.

[Ramus]

For good or bad, I'll still try kill someone tonight. My target will be dependent on the flip, so to get things moving along

Unvote, Vote Tuber

Pesco already voted.

It should be hammer time now. Also, it looks like I was right, Tuber was lying.

[Ramus]

SKum can win
scum can win
but at this point town can't win anyway. I think only me and anderson are the only town left.

If we lynch ram today, then peso NKs either anderson or I, SK wins.
If we lynch pesco today, then ram NKs either anderson or I, scum wins.
If we lynch anderson today, ram nk's me, pesco nk's ram... pesco wins.

I don't see how town can win in any case... since I'm 100% sure on pesco, and only 85% sure on ram, I would rather lynch pesco and let ram win.

Damn you're depressing. I still believe that there was no SK, it's only been town and mafia. It's just been Pesco messing with us. Now, as far as I can read, that means 3 to 1, town to mafia. Now, I recommend doing the obvious thing since the SK claim and lynching Pesco.

Vote: Pesco

[Ramus]

@ram - Why didn't you say, "you're wrong, I'm not scum" instead of just agreeing to vote for pesco?

Because I'm pretty sure I've been saying that quite a bit so far. If I haven't cemented the fact that I'm town into your minds, I'm probably the most scummy townie ever for some reason (I'm guessing it's because I "teamed" up with Tuber, but I don't see where).

Besides, that was not the point at that time. At the time, it was just simply to lynch Pesco and end the game, the only reason we lynched RBT was because he noticed that Tuber was never part of the vote count with the hammerer, not exactly hard investigation there. As far as I'm concerned, every time you guys decided to doubt yourselves and listen to Pesco, we've ended up wrong.

For one, you're still willing to believe he's an unarmed SK who managed to get his mace stolen in broad day light the first day by sheer chance even when we had Timeater making these odd claims, who probably would've been the more likely target due to the seemingly large amount of soft claims. Not to mention we've only been having one kill per night every night so far and I'm pretty sure by now if Pesco was the SK with his weapon, he would've had a reasonable target that the Mafia wasn't already picking one of these nights getting us two kills. Another event by sheer chance. Got enough reason now to lynch Pesco the SCum?

And Pesco, why did you claimed to have attempted to kill Sekinj?

[Ramus]

Then again, second look at the situation:

andersonw is NOT scum. He didn't quick hammer and end the game there. Congrats, you're confirmed.

Pesco is likely scum or unlikely sKum. I doubt he's town anymore. He's my number one target right now.

Sekinj, switching all game long and now switching at the end despite being absolutely sure of Pesco being some kind of enemy of the town. Possible scum.

Ramus, apparently very likely scum, I'm going to have a bias view on me regardless, so can anyone point out why I'm scummy?


I need people to reply to this post.

[Ramus]

EBWOP because I suck at typing.

Second paragraph

At the time, it was just simply to lynch Pesco and end the game, the only reason we lynched Tuber was because RBT noticed that Tuber was never part of the vote count with the hammerer, not exactly hard investigation there.

Fixed.

[Ramus]

o_O

What did you eat?
Anyway, hope you managed it well.

[Ramus]

I'm not scum...

Well that doesn't help us much. Perhaps we should go for a questionaire to decide who's scum. I'd say andersonw ask the questions since he's confirmed.

[Ramus]

By questionnaire, I mean a series of questions you ask both of us and you decide who's scum based on that.

In summary, some reads (not everyone, just those that stand out):

Tuberkulos

- about as solidly scum in my eyes as you can get at this early stage of the game. Which isn't huge, mind, but it's definitely there.

iLord

- Seems fairly town.

Mariyta

- Didn't like the way she handled her vote on Tuber one bit. They've been at each other's throats quite a bit; distancing, maybe?

reborn537

- I wish he'd post more often; he's coming off a little active-lurkish at the moment.

roffman

- Seeming pretty townish at the moment. I agreed with his early moves, and so far his logic has been pretty sound. I do wish he'd post more, though.

Timeater

- Ewwwwwww. "lol guise i didant actually red teh thred lolol AH HA YOU FELL INTO MY CUNNING TRAP" does not sit well with me. At all.

/fin

I apparently didn't stand out early in the game. I dunno, I tried to be out in the open, but meh.

I thought Pesco was a guy. Anyway, how do you know that extreme "hatred" wasn't a set up? As far as I'm concerned, this game so far seems like a series of set ups by Pesco and buds.

[Ramus]

Good game guys. Nice to know the town is a failure at figuring out obvious fact that Pesco is SCum and decides to lynch me instead due to poor luck and a personal playing style.

[Ramus]

you're not dead yet, ramus. Pesco still has to switch his vote over. Nice to see you're ready to give up already though...

Well at this point, it's pretty obvious the town is going to lose. I'm not sure what I ever did to be scummy and you guys never bothered to answer that.

[Ramus]

Nice to know I lost because:

1. The town was gullible and didn't kill Pesco right off the bat.

2. Tuber decided to use the ace card way too soon.

Regardless, good game people.

[Ramus]

And again, good game everyone, I'm sorry if we should have lynched Pesco, I actually thought that we had just a slightly bigger chance of winning if we lynched Ramus, since it was more possible for Pesco to have lost a NK than Ramus to be town (to me, those probabilities were like 10%>5%).

Can someone at least mention what I did that made me so scummy?

[Ramus]

One last thing:

Replacements are a Mafia's worse enemies. They tend to be that fresh breath that the town needs and are usually able to pick up pieces of evidence that the town missed due to the fact that replacements are detached and able to analyze better. If it wasn't for RBT, I would say that the Mafia would've won, however, RBT saw the lack of Tuber votes and that pretty much screwed over the Mafia right there.

[Ramus]

Don't worry about it, Pesco typically does stuff like this.

I also, I recommend sticking the Pesco Gambit in the wiki now. Telling the truth that you're a bloody Serial Killer works.

[Ramus]

Typing Error:

Remove the first "I".