Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Duchess]

VOTE: Elements

You are blatantly ignoring me for a third time. Come explain why you gave null reads to all the players you are familiar with when you stated that they would be the easiest for you to read.

I would appreciate some support here, anyone with an available vote.

[Green Crayons]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Green Crayons]

heh, timing


I am seeing red with duchess, and am giving myself a few IRL days to distance and will revisit

[Duchess]

I'll honour that, and maybe give the thread some room to breath for the time being.

[Elements]

I don't like that I'm starting to town duchess
UNVOTE:
I like lunar

[Duchess]

See 225, Elements.

[Duchess]

Post 98 could be viewed as you trying to defend me fmpov or at the very least interfering with a player trying to sort a slot, which is just as bad. The same can be said for 138 since it piggybacked from 98. Then 141, then in 143 you said

“Italiano himself later explained there is no correlation in post 108

which to me read like you were defending me again, using my posts to help your argument. You mentioned me again in 166, again to help solidify your argument. Then again in 167 to justify your push onto Green. For someone not defending someone it sure seems like you are.

Ok, you've linked every single post I addressed to Green Crayons up to that point here, and past the first sentence (which only recounts and does not explain, while casting some shade at me in passing, and the hypothetical language destroys any semblance of sincerity in this reply), you do nothing to address my question. Why did you link 134 (assuming that's what you meant by 138)? Why did you link 141? How am I defending you in 143 or 166, when the disagreement between interpretations of your post has absolutely nothing to do with the question of your alignment? The basis of this whole argument was a question GC asked you. Why does the mere mention of your name equate to defending you?

I'm surprised that even from your point of view

you are clinging to GC's false characterization of my push as a defense.

Why would you be surprised at someone else’s point of view? The (bolded) here is just wrong and not at all what I’m doing.

Do you disagree with GC's stance? You have hardly commented on or interacted with him or for the duration of this spat.

This early in the game, I know nothing. Nobody knows anything, except for scum.

I don’t know, you seemed pretty confident in your read, you even said so at the end of this post.

You're right, the game of mafia would be much better if everyone only gave strong pushes on modconfirmed guilties. Pussyfooting around anything less damning than that is an excellent town strategy that gets things done in a deadline-conscious and time-efficient manner, and makes excellent use of Town's strongest tool, the Daytime elimination. Thank you for humbling me by exposing my hypocrisy, and for opening my eyes to how wrong I have been in my false convictions.

If I'm not clear, this is a ridiculous attempt at shade that you should be ashamed of writing.

So if X looks to be setting up a scumpush against Y, I don't think for a damn second about what my read of Y is, because I have no reason to be so sure of anything that I would let those first impressions and assumptions of Y dictate my assessment of situation X.

My question is if I was a FoS, why would you be against a scum push onto me. Green would have been bussing me from your perspective, so what would it matter? For me it seems like you would’ve only done what you did if I was a townlean, otherwise you would have called out the theatre, (which would’ve been weak), but at least it’d be consistent.

I think it's unlikely you are both scum, and I've explained ad nauseum (including the very post you quoted here) why that doesn't affect my push at this stage. "What would it matter?" Is that a real question??? Your PoV in this section is all over the place, which does not bode well for you.

I’ve explained why it makes me feel uncomfortable both in 169 and this post. And the thought crossed my mind that it was theatre because I didn’t feel like it was a real argument and had no real footing, but then I thought that maybe the communication is just that bad between you too, either way I wanted both of you to stop talking about it. And since it involved me I had the audacity to say so.

Obviously if I'm asking you to elaborate it's because I'm not satisfied with your explanation. I asked about theatre/town vs town because you didn't mention the possibility of one of us being town and the other scum, which seems to be the angle you're pushing. You haven't said much about GC except to tell me you didn't hate his question.

Didn't you try to shade me earlier in this post for interfering with GC's sorting of you? What gives you the "audacity" to try to shut down my inquest?

I already said I didn't have an issue with Green's questioning.

So what? I'm not pushing GC for your benefit and I don't need your blessings or permission.

Well as I said since it involves me so I have the right to nip it in the bud.

This is not a town mindset.

Is there a reason you are so adamant about this?

This is a very strange question. I'm pushing a scumread, which is what you do in the game of mafia. I'll be either right or wrong in the end, but for now I'm quite confident.

Im asking under the mindset that you are defending me and I’m saying you’re push is not a good one because it’s being pushed under a false pretense.

What is that false pretense? If you're going to say "GC's question wasn't scummy", I don't want to hear it, that's not what this is about anymore, agree to disagree, etc. Actually, here's a better question for you, since it's what you're implying all the while anyway: Why is Green Crayons town?

[Duchess]

Sorry, Datisi, I must have missed 196. I haven't revisited the early game yet, but I'm sure I'll get a top-to-bottom read-through in over the next couple days. At the time I didn't have any specific ideas for where GC may have been going with that line of questioning, but it looked manipulative to me.

[Duchess]

Harumi's readslist is fine. I'm not sure what to think of them.

[Duchess]

I really like Andre's entrance and his way of looking at the game. The things he chooses to comment on don't feel the slightest bit agenda-driven.

[RLotus]

I really like Andre's entrance and his way of looking at the game. The things he chooses to comment on don't feel the slightest bit agenda-driven.

Yeah I think he's town too

[Duchess]

I don't like how VP pointed out the worst-looking post between the three of us (myself, GC, IVD) as if out of obligation, but chose to not take any kind of stance on the whole matter.

Sorry, I should be more patient with the Submit button when giving post hoc reactions like this.

[Duchess]

Lotus, do you have a read on Elements?

[RLotus]

Turns out Italiano maybe just had a bad game rather than it saying anything about elements.

They had those reads on page 1 that game, before anything even started.

Unless you're saying elements had psychic powers, something clearly pinged them

Well it sure felt like it. I can’t speak for what they actually and I doubt they’ll go into it, but I posted a couple of RVS style posts and neither of my partners had posted yet. I felt like he had the inside scoop. I did think it was awesome though.

Have you played with Duchess before?

Nah, can’t say that I have. I’m not sure where to place them yet, but if I had to say, their posts and takes have seemed townie.

but if I recall correctly there was some discussion just before that time of Italiano possibly being an easy early push, and what I saw pinged me, so I wanted to nip it in the bud.

That was a joke I mentioned to RTP, wasn't anything serious.

I gotta say I'm not at all comfortable being in the middle of this Duchess/Green Crayons thing, lol. Like yikes, I don't like what I say to be a basis to read someone else off when it wasn't my intention to do so. If this is theatre please choose something else to fight over and leave me out of it and if you're town then just drop it, it's not that serious.

@Duchess: I already said I didn't have an issue with Green's questioning. Your defense of me pings me more than anything especially this early in the game. And it all seems weird given that I was a FoS for you as posted in 90

VOTE: Duchess

Is there a reason you are so adamant about this?

And just to clarify, my Baltar vote was a reaction test vote, it wasn't really my solidified vote. That there wasn't more reaction to it, ehh I don't know how to feel about it just yet.

If you are looking for a scummy vote on the Duchess wagon this is it imo. His read of her kinda came from nowhere and that second makes it look like he was wanting to get in the middle of a TvT fight and stir shit up, rather than actually trying to evaluate the interaction.

[RLotus]

Lotus, do you have a read on Elements?

They haven't stood out as being either alignment to me yet.

[Duchess]

I don't think I noticed that bit at the end of 124, that's a good find.

[RLotus]

Lunar, I'm not sure Datisi is scum here. You want to join me on the dunnstral wagon?

I'm fairly sure he is lurking scum. Dunn is super smart, and knows how to strategic lurk (source: the last time we were scum together). I almost pushed this earlier, but felt like it would have been unfair too early in the game, so I gave him a chance to give me a reads list/impressions of the game.

He didn't do that. He also has conveniently stayed out of really any point of action in this game. Reeks of lurking scum.

@andres - what are your thoughts on IVD?

I don't think you can really read Dunn for lurking this early, not accurately at least. I feel like from what I've seen of him that as the game goes you will be able to read his effort as he has more material.

This post does feel to come from good intentions to me though rather than scum agenda tho

[Lunar Martian]

I don't like that I'm starting to town duchess
UNVOTE:
I like lunar

Why don't you like that you're Townreading Duchess?

[Lunar Martian]

Town: Harumi, Andres, VP Baltar, Duchess
Weak Town: RTP, Datisi, RLotus
Null: Testarossa, Green Crayons, Elements, Dunnstral
On the Scum side of the spectrum: Italiano

[RLotus]

Town: Harumi, Andres, VP Baltar, Duchess
Weak Town: RTP, Datisi, RLotus
Null: Testarossa, Green Crayons, Elements, Dunnstral
On the Scum side of the spectrum: Italiano

What about Italiano changed for you?

[Lunar Martian]

Town: Harumi, Andres, VP Baltar, Duchess
Weak Town: RTP, Datisi, RLotus
Null: Testarossa, Green Crayons, Elements, Dunnstral
On the Scum side of the spectrum: Italiano

What about Italiano changed for you?

I had some trouble sorting between Duchess and Italiano initially because there was too much noise and their fight consisted of really long, boring posts. Other people have made persuasive arguments about Italiano's posting, while Duchess has since done things to Towntell I think. Note that I'm not voting Italiano. It's not a super confident read yet, but that's the direction I'm leaning.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

VP - where did your townread on Andres come from?

[Reformed Toxic Player]

I have never had that experience of sorting andres where I sort him as town that quickly + I don't see where you pulled the townread from based on the postings.

[VP Baltar]

I have never had that experience of sorting andres where I sort him as town that quickly + I don't see where you pulled the townread from based on the postings.

In fairness, I've not played with scum andres, but his indecisiveness around the GC-Duchess spat vibes town with me. The way he portrayed his feelings on it defuses the situation slightly since he didn't come to a hard conclusion. He also logically explained why he thought it was TvS rather than SvS. Reminded me of town andres I've seen in the past.

[Reformed Toxic Player]

so it put him as more towny than any other player here?