Raw, Unfiltered, UPICK Game Over !

[Jesse Pierce]

I will be snatching this.

[Jesse Pierce]

Oh, now we've got some activity.

Would love some more explanation on Greyice's reasoning for... basically anything he's said so far. I refuse to succumb to fascist intimidation :p

I say you are scum
and you tell me I'm scummy and need to explain to you why I'm not scum

that's not how it works.

Yes it quite frankly is because I am obviously town and you right now have done the equivalent of a naked vote.

You got a problem with that?

[MathBlade]

Oh, now we've got some activity.

Would love some more explanation on Greyice's reasoning for... basically anything he's said so far. I refuse to succumb to fascist intimidation :p

I say you are scum
and you tell me I'm scummy and need to explain to you why I'm not scum

that's not how it works.

Yes it quite frankly is because I am obviously town and you right now have done the equivalent of a naked vote.

You got a problem with that?

I do not follow what you mean by that.

I have a problem with people avoiding the game thread and playing hero.

If you think I am scum, comment on the top wagons (U and MM) and then why you think I am scum.

It’s a simple ask.

[GreyICE]

Oh no. The day does need to develop further. I am saying you have to take a stance on the ongoing conversation before trying to make another push.

There’s a lot of shit you’re just outright ignoring.

People should have to interact with what is present rather than a side wagon.

If you’re like “Hey I think both wagons suck therefore do this wagon” that’s cool.

Just “do this wagon” isn’t.

The former gives something to read off of.

Of course both those wagons suck. First, 2-3 votes isn't a wagon. It's an extended RVS. Second, obviously both wagons suck. If you dislike the current candidates, offer new ones. That's mafia 101 - so mafia 101 I'm almost embarrassed to spell it out.

Now that you explicitly know I think both "wagons" (they're not wagons) suck, what cool information did you learn here?

[MathBlade]

Oh no. The day does need to develop further. I am saying you have to take a stance on the ongoing conversation before trying to make another push.

There’s a lot of shit you’re just outright ignoring.

People should have to interact with what is present rather than a side wagon.

If you’re like “Hey I think both wagons suck therefore do this wagon” that’s cool.

Just “do this wagon” isn’t.

The former gives something to read off of.

Of course both those wagons suck. First, 2-3 votes isn't a wagon. It's an extended RVS. Second, obviously both wagons suck. If you dislike the current candidates, offer new ones. That's mafia 101 - so mafia 101 I'm almost embarrassed to spell it out.

Now that you explicitly know I think both "wagons" (they're not wagons) suck, what cool information did you learn here?

Yes, if you hate the wagons offer new ones IS mafia 101 if you think they suck. But not without interacting with what has been brought forth to demonstrate why you think it’s bad so people go with you.

It’s the idea of cooperative communication. Meet the person where they’re at.

Let’s assume you’re town and you happen to push through a wagon on scum through “I am awesome and dictatory” then you’re NK’d. The game essentially starts over in RVS because we don’t have the blocking from talking shit out.

(Because I am on mobile and lunch break what I learned will be in the next post.)

[Jesse Pierce]

Oh, now we've got some activity.

Would love some more explanation on Greyice's reasoning for... basically anything he's said so far. I refuse to succumb to fascist intimidation :p

I say you are scum
and you tell me I'm scummy and need to explain to you why I'm not scum

that's not how it works.

Yes it quite frankly is because I am obviously town and you right now have done the equivalent of a naked vote.

You got a problem with that?

I do not follow what you mean by that.

I have a problem with people avoiding the game thread and

playing hero

.

If you think I am scum, comment on the top wagons (U and MM) and then why you think I am scum.

It’s a simple ask.

Explain.
Last I checked, I was not a top wagon but nice try.
Nothing you say makes sense = you are scum

[MathBlade]

So this (and other versions of the Castle Crashers Necromancer theme) is the other of the two songs I've been tending to use during times where I want to get serious in a mafia game. I tend to use Mechanical Con-Damnation for mech-heavy setups and this one for mech-lite setups, or for situations where mechanical arguments are stronger or weaker in what I'm writing up in specific.
This definitely isn't my favorite cover of the Necromancer theme, but I chose this one here for a reason I'll get into in a bit.

Votecount 1.5

Uncrowned (6): Mistyx, Marky Mark, cassowary, Flea The Magician, Vaxkiller, chkflip
Marky Mark (4): Porkens, Uncrowned, Grendel, Not Known 15
Vaxkiller (1): Turin Turambar
the worst (1): Jake the Wolfie
Flea The Magician (1): Fidget

Not voting: the worst

Within 14 alive it takes 8 votes to yeet someone into the void.
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-02-15 15:10:00), or whenever a yeet has been decided.

I feel like this is a good song for quickly getting minor tasks done. Besides that, I just think the song's nice.
Also, backlogged VCs will continue from where I left off if I have a narrative I'm trying to spin. I'll link any VCs I had to add narration to in the next VC done live (which, to make it clear, means this one will have links to 1.6 and 1.7 once I get those done).

Votecount 1.8

Uncrowned (2): Flea The Magician, Vaxkiller
Marky Mark (2): GreyICE, Not Known 15
Vaxkiller (1): Mathblade
Jesse Pierce (1): Jake the Wolfie
Flea The Magician (1): Fidget
Jake the Wolfie (1): Mistyx
Not Known 15(1): Marky Mark

Not voting: Jesse Pierce, chkflip, cassowary, Uncrowned, Grendel

Within 14 alive it takes 8 votes to yeet someone into the void.
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-02-15 15:10:00), or whenever a yeet has been decided.

GreyICE replaces Porkens
Mathblade replaces Turin Turambar

This was over the span of Friday to Monday.

A crap ton of people were on wagons then went back to unvoting. That’s highly indicative of not having a town leader or leaders and yet the wagon disbanded. We’ve been outside RVS for a while imho. Why the wagons disbanded is important whatever alignment you think Uncrowned/Marky Mark are.

What we have to prevent is what a recently completed scum game happened on D1. I replaced into a scummy slot and kinda defeatist and try harded but used subtle manipulation to make people hate how long D1 was. People have to at least interact with the why. This provides a general flow rather than randomly voting until frustrated and elimming. It’s more important to build communication rather than right. Ideally both but with a good town block we can talk more.

You think both wagons are on town? Then who is scum in those groups?

[MathBlade]

Majority of scum are likely in the unvoters because they are pushing no one as of that vote count.

[MathBlade]

Oh, now we've got some activity.

Would love some more explanation on Greyice's reasoning for... basically anything he's said so far. I refuse to succumb to fascist intimidation :p

I say you are scum
and you tell me I'm scummy and need to explain to you why I'm not scum

that's not how it works.

Yes it quite frankly is because I am obviously town and you right now have done the equivalent of a naked vote.

You got a problem with that?

I do not follow what you mean by that.

I have a problem with people avoiding the game thread and

playing hero

.

If you think I am scum, comment on the top wagons (U and MM) and then why you think I am scum.

It’s a simple ask.

Explain.
Last I checked, I was not a top wagon but nice try.
Nothing you say makes sense = you are scum

?? Not sure where you’re getting top wagon from and how that’s relevant to what I posted.

And yes, playing hero is an attitude. “I am right come sheep me I know it all.”

Without interacting and providing justification that is definitionally avoiding the thread and playing hero.

[MathBlade]

I very much do scumread you but again, I want to get people to focus on current events so I am not tunneling.

Besides I have one vote and my PoE is kinda big atm.

[Jesse Pierce]

I very much do scumread you but again, I want to get people to focus on current events so I am not tunneling.

Besides I have one vote and my PoE is kinda big atm.

You are so arrogant that I'm second guessing myself.
VOTE: Uncrown

[cassowary]

Oh, now we've got some activity.

Would love some more explanation on Greyice's reasoning for... basically anything he's said so far. I refuse to succumb to fascist intimidation :p

To be fair Grey did provide a bare bones of reasoning.
That’s not why I scumread him.

I mean... did he? to me it kinda looks like he thought he had it figured out by page 2 (#366) and then just went "hey everyone vote fidget" without explaining, and then by way of explanation he just summarized a bunch of things she did (#374) basically without comment?

Tho looking back, I'm not a huge fan of most of fidget's arguments, tbh. Pushing mark over uncrowned after uncrowned's naked vote was an extremely weird play, and most of her votes don't look good imo. Plus a lot of meta type arguments/justifications? (#123, #126, #166). I guess I don't even necessarily disagree with most of Grey's takes lol, I just don't find this style of argument convincing at all

[MathBlade]

Oh, now we've got some activity.

Would love some more explanation on Greyice's reasoning for... basically anything he's said so far. I refuse to succumb to fascist intimidation :p

To be fair Grey did provide a bare bones of reasoning.
That’s not why I scumread him.

I mean... did he? to me it kinda looks like he thought he had it figured out by page 2 (#366) and then just went "hey everyone vote fidget" without explaining, and then by way of explanation he just summarized a bunch of things she did (#374) basically without comment?

Tho looking back, I'm not a huge fan of most of fidget's arguments, tbh. Pushing mark over uncrowned after uncrowned's naked vote was an extremely weird play, and most of her votes don't look good imo. Plus a lot of meta type arguments/justifications? (#123, #126, #166). I guess I don't even necessarily disagree with most of Grey's takes lol, I just don't find this style of argument convincing at all

Barebones is what he did.

Grey is a player who when town and cooperates does a lot better but tends to be “I am right ROAR” at times. I think him bringing up another player without actively commenting on recent activity is what’s really bad about it. Grey usually has shit reasoning whatever alignment but sometimes ends up right. I am hoping that if I am wrong and he is right he can make a case to demonstrate his thoughts to bring more people in.

Fascism is bad.

[cassowary]

I mean, yeah, that's my thought too re 'make an actual case'. I don't think I am super scumreading him for the 'not talking about current discussion' thing though because he kind of came in at a point where the current discussion had died down a bunch? I appreciate getting a new topic here to discuss unless you want to rehash uncrowned/mark again or whatever.

Which I guess you said you do, but I don't think either of them feel like the right elimination for today and idk if you've given that many more thoughts on them, other than you don't like the Mark wagon so you are suspecting uncrowned by, what, PoE? Why are you limiting your choices here?

I think I am going to vote Fidget. But this is an independent conclusion, not due to fascism

VOTE: Fidget

[MathBlade]

I very much do scumread you but again, I want to get people to focus on current events so I am not tunneling.

Besides I have one vote and my PoE is kinda big atm.

You are so arrogant that I'm second guessing myself.
VOTE: Uncrown

This is pretty bad too.

Please stop naked voting and think through things with reasoning.

You’re pretty high up on my smell BS radar right now.

[GreyICE]

So this (and other versions of the Castle Crashers Necromancer theme) is the other of the two songs I've been tending to use during times where I want to get serious in a mafia game. I tend to use Mechanical Con-Damnation for mech-heavy setups and this one for mech-lite setups, or for situations where mechanical arguments are stronger or weaker in what I'm writing up in specific.
This definitely isn't my favorite cover of the Necromancer theme, but I chose this one here for a reason I'll get into in a bit.

Votecount 1.5

Uncrowned (6): Mistyx, Marky Mark, cassowary, Flea The Magician, Vaxkiller, chkflip
Marky Mark (4): Porkens, Uncrowned, Grendel, Not Known 15
Vaxkiller (1): Turin Turambar
the worst (1): Jake the Wolfie
Flea The Magician (1): Fidget

Not voting: the worst

Within 14 alive it takes 8 votes to yeet someone into the void.
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-02-15 15:10:00), or whenever a yeet has been decided.

I feel like this is a good song for quickly getting minor tasks done. Besides that, I just think the song's nice.
Also, backlogged VCs will continue from where I left off if I have a narrative I'm trying to spin. I'll link any VCs I had to add narration to in the next VC done live (which, to make it clear, means this one will have links to 1.6 and 1.7 once I get those done).

Votecount 1.8

Uncrowned (2): Flea The Magician, Vaxkiller
Marky Mark (2): GreyICE, Not Known 15
Vaxkiller (1): Mathblade
Jesse Pierce (1): Jake the Wolfie
Flea The Magician (1): Fidget
Jake the Wolfie (1): Mistyx
Not Known 15(1): Marky Mark

Not voting: Jesse Pierce, chkflip, cassowary, Uncrowned, Grendel

Within 14 alive it takes 8 votes to yeet someone into the void.
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-02-15 15:10:00), or whenever a yeet has been decided.

GreyICE replaces Porkens
Mathblade replaces Turin Turambar

This was over the span of Friday to Monday.

A crap ton of people were on wagons then went back to unvoting. That’s highly indicative of not having a town leader or leaders and yet the wagon disbanded. We’ve been outside RVS for a while imho. Why the wagons disbanded is important whatever alignment you think Uncrowned/Marky Mark are.

What we have to prevent is what a recently completed scum game happened on D1. I replaced into a scummy slot and kinda defeatist and try harded but used subtle manipulation to make people hate how long D1 was. People have to at least interact with the why. This provides a general flow rather than randomly voting until frustrated and elimming. It’s more important to build communication rather than right. Ideally both but with a good town block we can talk more.

You think both wagons are on town? Then who is scum in those groups?

Math, take a good look at the wagons:

Uncrowned (2): Flea The Magician, Vaxkiller
Marky Mark (2): GreyICE, Not Known 15

That's six fucking people Math. And I know one is town. There's no guarantee that any block of five people has scum in it. In fact the old tell was 3rd/4th vote on a town wagon was the highest likelihood of scum because until you get up to five we're just flailing about.

So here's my hottake - scummiest on that is vaxkiller, but I don't want to lynch any of them. I might revisit NK15 if vax flips scum.

[MathBlade]

I mean, yeah, that's my thought too re 'make an actual case'. I don't think I am super scumreading him for the 'not talking about current discussion' thing though because he kind of came in at a point where the current discussion had died down a bunch? I appreciate getting a new topic here to discuss unless you want to rehash uncrowned/mark again or whatever.

Which I guess you said you do, but I don't think either of them feel like the right elimination for today and idk if you've given that many more thoughts on them, other than you don't like the Mark wagon so you are suspecting uncrowned by, what, PoE? Why are you limiting your choices here?

I think I am going to vote Fidget. But this is an independent conclusion, not due to fascism

VOTE: Fidget

I suspect uncrowned based on my catchup. I think way too many people abandoned those wagons without hood reasoning.

The naked vote was sus as hell then went to the other extreme of try harding.

The above is more than fine. It addresses what’s in thread then moves to a coherent point. I disagree with it but it gives things for people to read and vibe on.

[MathBlade]

So this (and other versions of the Castle Crashers Necromancer theme) is the other of the two songs I've been tending to use during times where I want to get serious in a mafia game. I tend to use Mechanical Con-Damnation for mech-heavy setups and this one for mech-lite setups, or for situations where mechanical arguments are stronger or weaker in what I'm writing up in specific.
This definitely isn't my favorite cover of the Necromancer theme, but I chose this one here for a reason I'll get into in a bit.

Votecount 1.5

Uncrowned (6): Mistyx, Marky Mark, cassowary, Flea The Magician, Vaxkiller, chkflip
Marky Mark (4): Porkens, Uncrowned, Grendel, Not Known 15
Vaxkiller (1): Turin Turambar
the worst (1): Jake the Wolfie
Flea The Magician (1): Fidget

Not voting: the worst

Within 14 alive it takes 8 votes to yeet someone into the void.
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-02-15 15:10:00), or whenever a yeet has been decided.

I feel like this is a good song for quickly getting minor tasks done. Besides that, I just think the song's nice.
Also, backlogged VCs will continue from where I left off if I have a narrative I'm trying to spin. I'll link any VCs I had to add narration to in the next VC done live (which, to make it clear, means this one will have links to 1.6 and 1.7 once I get those done).

Votecount 1.8

Uncrowned (2): Flea The Magician, Vaxkiller
Marky Mark (2): GreyICE, Not Known 15
Vaxkiller (1): Mathblade
Jesse Pierce (1): Jake the Wolfie
Flea The Magician (1): Fidget
Jake the Wolfie (1): Mistyx
Not Known 15(1): Marky Mark

Not voting: Jesse Pierce, chkflip, cassowary, Uncrowned, Grendel

Within 14 alive it takes 8 votes to yeet someone into the void.
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-02-15 15:10:00), or whenever a yeet has been decided.

GreyICE replaces Porkens
Mathblade replaces Turin Turambar

This was over the span of Friday to Monday.

A crap ton of people were on wagons then went back to unvoting. That’s highly indicative of not having a town leader or leaders and yet the wagon disbanded. We’ve been outside RVS for a while imho. Why the wagons disbanded is important whatever alignment you think Uncrowned/Marky Mark are.

What we have to prevent is what a recently completed scum game happened on D1. I replaced into a scummy slot and kinda defeatist and try harded but used subtle manipulation to make people hate how long D1 was. People have to at least interact with the why. This provides a general flow rather than randomly voting until frustrated and elimming. It’s more important to build communication rather than right. Ideally both but with a good town block we can talk more.

You think both wagons are on town? Then who is scum in those groups?

Math, take a good look at the wagons:

Uncrowned (2): Flea The Magician, Vaxkiller
Marky Mark (2): GreyICE, Not Known 15

That's six fucking people Math. And I know one is town. There's no guarantee that any block of five people has scum in it. In fact the old tell was 3rd/4th vote on a town wagon was the highest likelihood of scum because until you get up to five we're just flailing about.

So here's my hottake - scummiest on that is vaxkiller, but I don't want to lynch any of them. I might revisit NK15 if vax flips scum.

I think I am doing a horrible job explaining but will try better after work when I can type on my computer.

[GreyICE]

I prefer not making cases. Not making cases is more interesting. Cases don't generate content.

Math: here's some advice about generating content. tends to happen when you keep the spamposting down.

[Jesse Pierce]

Naked votes generate discussion whereas your wall posts just drown people out.

VOTE: Mathblade

I'm keeping my vote here unless I see some town traits soon.

[chkflip]

Majority of scum are likely in the unvoters because they are pushing no one as of that vote count.

Wat a remarkably profound statemint.

If only the unvoters didn't include both people the wagons were on.

[Marky Mark]

Evening all, great to see the game picking up pace and to have two new players with us

Sadly, I have been pretty busy IRL today due to a hole in the wall of my house amongst other things, so will be giving this a very brief skim before bed and then a more thorough look tomorrow evening

[Marky Mark]

So let me say that I am all in favour of some town coordination and focussing on key wagons by consensus. I voted outside of uncrowned as I felt I wasn't going to get much more out of that conversation at that point in time, especially with them playing the whole "I don't want to interact with you" card. I still SR them and would vote there.

Some general thoughts:

Chkflip is still sheeping votes, eg consider 373 following GreyICE's case on fidget.

@Grey help me understand a couple of things from your POV here:
-Why do you think the Not Known wagon is bad? Have you seen their justification of their vote on me!? Highlights included me being scum for saying 'please' and 'mate'
-Why are you seeing Uncrowned as obvtown here?

Fidget made some reaching posts early on and I'd paint them scummier than the average slot this game, so I do get the case here. Tbf, some of their posts I saw as towny at the time now feel kinda narrative when reviewed.

Jesse's evolution on my slot from SRing me to saying I was townflailing felt weird, although this may be a side-effect of catching up.

I'm not sure I buy grendel's logic that scum must've been on the vanity wagons rather than voting me or uncrowned -> I can see how one wagon could've been primarily scum and the other primarily town, balancing each other out. It was also early enough in the day that the chance of either leading to an immediate elim was lowish.
++townpoints for thinking through the situation and providing analysis though.

[Marky Mark]

Jake's engagement with the game at a very surface level is lowkey pinging me, but right now what I would really like to see is a wagon on Not Known. I'd settle for one on uncrowned or fidget as secondary choices.

Not Known's case on me felt like they were stretching the facts to fit the conclusion they wanted to arrive at, rather than vice versa. 324 is the smoking gun here. It's like they wanted to try and paint me as scum and then went through my posts to try and make them fit their narrative of pulling my punches against uncrowned.

They've not posted a lot and I feel like this is a slot that's well worth digging into - even in the responses so far I feel like we've started to uncover some usual stuff to help sort them, as mentioned above.

[Marky Mark]

Night all, I'll try and jump on after work tomorrow for a bit longer