Mini 660 - Star Trek: DS9 Mafia (Ruined = Over)

[Light-kun]

Okay, I was preparing a pbpa...and fell asleep...
And when I manage to get to the computer, I find this... which is...really, really agreeable...

*Sighs* frelaras didn't seem scummy to me, just weird, but in the idea of a m4yhem/frelaras scum pair (among others, I would assume for a twelve person game), it seems a bit better. BTW, I am wondering:

Sekinj: Who do you think frelaras was "coaching?" A. Mana-ku. Who replaced mana? M4yhem...

Hm.. I am starting to see it. If frelaras is scum, then m4yhem is probably scum. if he is town? Kind of null...

Naturally, this applies in the reverse too. Since (in my opinion), I thought frelaras was more weird than scum, I will do my own mini PBPA of Mayhem and his predecessors:

Fire: Post 0, random.
Post 1, unvote, replacement request.
Completely null.

Mana: Post 0, going to read. (null)
Post 1, relatively plus, agrees with me (which=town, jkjk) Seriously though, the post holds of on voting Jeb, and questions his claimed amateur level. Also, speculates that mass role claim is bad. (townish)
Post 2: Questions time's thoughts. I agree that this occasionally/often needs to be done since I am not a mind reader, and he sometimes posts as if the case is obvious. (Townish)
Post 3: Busy. (null) wonders why Jesus was killed... but, still null.

I see this person as slightly townie.

Okay... the posts are just...

Well... *Scratches head.*

Post 0: Good, fairly townish.
Post 1: Slightly townish...
Post 2: Arrogance (null) Is asked a question that is for his predecessor... but instead of answering to the best of his ability, he says that he cannot... but will later say he can form opinions and be valid even though he wasn't "present" at the time... Sorry, but this just seems scummy to me. (Slightly scummy)
Post 3: "Just because I wasn't playing doesn't make my opinion invalid." Yes, and why not apply this to Farside's question since YOU know more about it than anyone.
*Ignoring frelaras part for a moment.* Time eater part was fairly town... but (and this is coming from someone who doesn't care for meta), M4y seems a little worried about townie/scum speculation from outside sources such as meta or replacement request value of his/her predecessors. (Slightly scummy)
*&Frelaras part: Slightly town?
Post 4: Wonders why I withhold my suspects... well, maybe because they happened to not be under suspicion, so telling them that would ruin it? (Again, kind of kidding.) this post doesn't scream town or scum... (neither)
Post 5: Contentless post. Just what we all need.

Over all, closer to scummy than town.

The other two seemed either null or town, but the inconclusiveness tells me very little.

I am going to wait on his response to Sekinj since he did *also* suspected frelaras.

[sekinj]

Sekinj: Who do you think frelaras was "coaching?" A. Mana-ku. Who replaced mana? M4yhem...

I can't tell if you were actually asking this or just point it out... but yeah, that was kind of the idea.

I like your point about mayhem not being willing to answer far's question yet claiming his read on my actions at the time were completely on track.


and... ps... I am female... not sure why I always need to point that out...

[Light-kun]

Sorry, if I forget, it is just easier to assume the male tense...since every language's default is masculine really, no offense. People have called me female, but I ignore it... *is not bothered by that in the anonymity of the internet.*
And yes, I was asking because you failed to point out that little piece of relevance.

[sekinj]

Sorry, if I forget, it is just easier to assume the male tense...since every language's default is masculine really, no offense. People have called me female, but I ignore it... *is not bothered by that in the anonymity of the internet.*
And yes, I was asking because you failed to point out that little piece of relevance.

I only think it is odd since my gender is displayed with every post. it's not a big deal though.

but yes, that is what I meant by coaching in fre's Post 4. he is coaching his scum partner manu who has turned into may. that is one of the main things that led me to believe in their scum team.

[Timeater]

It irritates me when female players bring attention to the fact that they're female. Its like so what? Sorry the male-tense means basically the same thing as a universal-tense ( e.g first man on the moon, etc). Does you being a pretty pink little girlie girl have anything to do about anything related to mafia? No, it doesn't. *rage*

As for the accusations of coaching I'll have to look into them. Scum lists are a bad idea on d1 because it gives scum an obvious trend to go by. Who to side with, who to stay away from, who to kill, its a dumb idea. I just dont believe in that philosophy. It hardly "helps the town" - not day one. Maybe when the stakes are a little higher, and we have alot more to lose - scumlists are ok. But d1? You're playing into scumhands.

Requesting a count and a prod on Nudude. Will post heavily tomorrow.

[sekinj]

It irritates me when female players bring attention to the fact that they're female. Its like so what? Sorry the male-tense means basically the same thing as a universal-tense ( e.g first man on the moon, etc). Does you being a pretty pink little girlie girl have anything to do about anything related to mafia? No, it doesn't. *rage*

...already said it wasn't a big deal.. don't get your panties in a wad...

[ZONEACE]

...already said it wasn't a big deal.. don't get your panties in a wad...

Its funny cause he's a dude.

[Timeater]

-_-

[ChannelDelibird]

"You do have a lovely Vote Count. She must take after her mother."

CallMeLiam (2): frelaras, Light-kun
td (2): ZONEACE, Ozymandius
sekinj (2): M4yhem, Timeater
frelaras (2): farside22, sekinj
Timeater (1): CallMeLiam

Not voting (2): td, Nudude

With 11 alive, 6 votes will lynch.

Doing an activity check.

EDIT: Prodding Ozymandius. Replacing Nudude.

[M4yhem]

Seems to be setting up suspicion on several players in his Post 0.

That’s what you do when you scumhunt, you tell people who you are suspicious of and why. I know you know this, since you just produced your own list.

I could just as easily say you are ‘setting up a lynch’ on Frelaras and then on me if he flips scum.

on Liam, he sets it up so he can go either way.

I don’t agree. I was against the bandwagon on Liam and I made that clear.

Also, his case on me is started with one post regarding jebus? Seems like there are much better cases out there.

One slip up by scum is usually all you get and it’s all I need to suspect you. As for ‘better cases’, well, you would say that, wouldn’t you?

I think there is a frelaras/mayhem scum team based on the coaching and distancing seen in fre’s posts 4 and 14.

Mana asked a question and Frelaras answered it. I don’t call that coaching, I call that a complete non-event. Answering questions isn’t scummy, it’s polite.

As for the distancing...whatever. He disagreed with me. People disagree all the time, it doesn’t make them buddies.

It seems like you are really stretching to link me with someone at least one other person finds suspicious.

Post 3: "Just because I wasn't playing doesn't make my opinion invalid." Yes, and why not apply this to Farside's question since YOU know more about it than anyone.

Because it requires me to mind-read. I don’t know what was going on in Mana-kun’s mind, I only know her role and there is nothing in her role to prevent her posting content.

M4y seems a little worried about townie/scum speculation from outside sources such as meta or replacement request value of his/her predecessors. (Slightly scummy)

And? I explained my reasoning; I don’t think it’s wise to assume replacements are cleared just because they are replacements.
I don’t think I said anything about metas. Personally, I have nothing against metahunting.

Post 4: Wonders why I withhold my suspects... well, maybe because they happened to not be under suspicion, so telling them that would ruin it? (Again, kind of kidding.) this post doesn't scream town or scum... (neither)

Did you ever explain why you are withholding them? Because it still seems scummy to me. I don’t see why the town benefits from you hiding what you think, and it seems like it could be a setup- for example, if you see a bandwagon you want to join, you could just say ‘oh yeah, that guy has been one of my suspects for ages’ and noone could contradict you.

Post 5: Contentless post. Just what we all need.

Give me a break. At least I posted that day.

I don’t like how quickly you agreed with Sekinj, how wishy-washy your post was, or how you are trying to set me up if Frelasa flips scum.

Fos:Lightkun

for that reason.

It irritates me when female players bring attention to the fact that they're female. Its like so what? Sorry the male-tense means basically the same thing as a universal-tense ( e.g first man on the moon, etc). Does you being a pretty pink little girlie girl have anything to do about anything related to mafia? No, it doesn't. *rage*

Wow, that’s kind of insensitive. People’s gender happens to be a big piece of their identity, of course they’re going to want you to get it right. And ‘basically the same’ is not the same as ‘exactly the same’- besides which, lots of feminist have a problem with the idea of the male-tense being considered the universal one.

Yes, I know, completely off topic. I’ll shut up now.

[Ozymandius]

Okay I've got the prod. I need to think about this. A lot of this game is going way over my head. I'm trying to sort it out but I really don't know a lot about what is going on. I don't want to ask for a replacement but I may if it gets to be too much. I've been really busy this week so I haven't had much time to really go over everything in this game.

[CallMeLiam]

CallMeLiam

– Maybe his shape-shifters comment has been taken too dramatically. After my re-read I took it more like he was suggesting the possibility, but not saying everyone had to be changeling. I think Time took it a little too far and then Laim defended. @Laim: care to comment on that?

This is fair and accurate.

Spotty access this weekend, I'll try and get some content in tomorrow

[frelaras]

frelaras

– top of my current scum list
Post 4: possible coaching
Post 5: false dilemma
Post 8 and 9: still going after zone until zone’s day-vig was confirmed. Does not seem necessary. Why continue to attack rather just wait to see if the day-vig is confirmed?
Post 10: defends actions by saying it could have been a gambit… still seems scummy to have continued attack against zone rather than just waiting a small amount of time to see if the mod confirmed actions.
Post 12: Seems to be going after Liam regardless of Quark claim… I understand fre was just trying to make a point, but why pressure a player if you believe their claim?
Post 13: major appeal to town (which i find scummy)
Post 14: agrees with me against Mayhem regarding my votes… actually feels like buddying.

(snip)

I think there is a frelaras/mayhem scum team based on the coaching and distancing seen in fre’s posts 4 and 14.

Alright... First, a bit of a request. You're citing my posts by the number I've made. This is completely not helpful for actually tracking down references. Please cite the actual post number so I can search it up if you're not going to do actual links.

Now, on to your "case." At the moment, a major part of it appears to be the post where I answered the question about the win-condition claim. Coaching is helping a scum buddy out of a tough spot by feeding them answers, not letting them avoid wasting time on an irrelevant win-condition claim. You're staking a lot on answering a simple question.

As far as the Martok reveal... well, seeing as how we've spent half the game discussing how shapeshifters could be faking various things from roles to actions, I'm not sure why I have to defend continuing the pressure until the mod revealed it. I kind of wanted to see if any one or two people _would_ jump in and try to quicklynch. Seemed like it might give up a stupid scum if they tried that.

As for Liam, well, I still don't like his logic about character claims much, which is why I pressed it as far as I did. His consecutive posts said, don't pay attention to claims, then made one. It seems kind of bizarre and somewhat scummy to not accept claims as evidence but expect yours to do much good. I felt like pressuring him because his logic didn't seem very pro-town, regardless of what his alignment is. Besides, those Ferengi are shifty types!

I still can't get over the fact that a big part of your case is telling someone that a win condition claim was pointless.

For now,

unvote

. I'll come back later and review who I should be voting.

[ZONEACE]

=

Alright... First, a bit of a request. You're citing my posts by the number I've made. This is completely not helpful for actually tracking down references. Please cite the actual post number so I can search it up if you're not going to do actual links.

you can view posts in isolation down at the bottom of the board there, with the drop down of the list of names. thats where the post numbers are coming from.

[sekinj]

Alright... First, a bit of a request. You're citing my posts by the number I've made. This is completely not helpful for actually tracking down references. Please cite the actual post number so I can search it up if you're not going to do actual links.

Can you not just look at your posts in isolation? is it really that difficult? If I wanted to be not helpful, I just wouldn't have provided any reference.

[CallMeLiam]

unvote, vote: senkinj

Yes, the way you laid out your big post was unhelpful, and I dislike your case on Frelaras a lot.

[sekinj]

unvote, vote: senkinj

Yes, the way you laid out your big post was unhelpful, and I dislike your case on Frelaras a lot.

Great reasoning there. So you are voting me because you don't like how I post cases? oh, and because the case was bad... glad you added that in. maybe some specifics?

[M4yhem]

Any response to my post, sekinj?

[frelaras]

Hmm, ok. I've only used search from the top to get post numbers. I'll keep that in mind for future PBPA (although I'll still prefer real numbers).

[sekinj]

Any response to my post, sekinj?

Ummm... I disagree?

[sekinj]

Not really sure what you want here...

Seems to be setting up suspicion on several players in his Post 0.

That’s what you do when you scumhunt, you tell people who you are suspicious of and why. I know you know this, since you just produced your own list.

I could just as easily say you are ‘setting up a lynch’ on Frelaras and then on me if he flips scum.

except I focused instead of spreading blame

on Liam, he sets it up so he can go either way.

I don’t agree. I was against the bandwagon on Liam and I made that clear.

in post 0 you didn't. you set it up so you could at least come back later and say you were supicious.

Also, his case on me is started with one post regarding jebus? Seems like there are much better cases out there.

One slip up by scum is usually all you get and it’s all I need to suspect you. As for ‘better cases’, well, you would say that, wouldn’t you?

yes I would, because it's true.

I think there is a frelaras/mayhem scum team based on the coaching and distancing seen in fre’s posts 4 and 14.

Mana asked a question and Frelaras answered it. I don’t call that coaching, I call that a complete non-event. Answering questions isn’t scummy, it’s polite.

I think it looks like coaching a scum buddy.

As for the distancing...whatever. He disagreed with me. People disagree all the time, it doesn’t make them buddies.

It looked like distancing instead of just regular disagreeing.

It seems like you are really stretching to link me with someone at least one other person finds suspicious.

You would say that woudln't you, but you'd be wrong.

Post 3: "Just because I wasn't playing doesn't make my opinion invalid." Yes, and why not apply this to Farside's question since YOU know more about it than anyone.

Because it requires me to mind-read. I don’t know what was going on in Mana-kun’s mind, I only know her role and there is nothing in her role to prevent her posting content.

Yet you are trying to mind-read me, even after I told you my intentions you just blatantly ignored that. I'm not saying you shoudl trust my version because I say so, I'm saying that if you can't mind read Man, whose role you took over, what makes you think you knew all about what was happening with my comments?

M4y seems a little worried about townie/scum speculation from outside sources such as meta or replacement request value of his/her predecessors. (Slightly scummy)

And? I explained my reasoning; I don’t think it’s wise to assume replacements are cleared just because they are replacements.
I don’t think I said anything about metas. Personally, I have nothing against metahunting.

I agree that scum replace just as often as town. Light will have to comment to say what exactly he thought was scummy.

Post 4: Wonders why I withhold my suspects... well, maybe because they happened to not be under suspicion, so telling them that would ruin it? (Again, kind of kidding.) this post doesn't scream town or scum... (neither)

Did you ever explain why you are withholding them? Because it still seems scummy to me. I don’t see why the town benefits from you hiding what you think, and it seems like it could be a setup- for example, if you see a bandwagon you want to join, you could just say ‘oh yeah, that guy has been one of my suspects for ages’ and noone could contradict you.

light already said it was null...

Post 5: Contentless post. Just what we all need.

Give me a break. At least I posted that day.

congrats

I don’t like how quickly you agreed with Sekinj, how wishy-washy your post was, or how you are trying to set me up if Frelasa flips scum.

Fos:Lightkun

for that reason.

again... you wouldn't, would you?

It irritates me when female players bring attention to the fact that they're female. Its like so what? Sorry the male-tense means basically the same thing as a universal-tense ( e.g first man on the moon, etc). Does you being a pretty pink little girlie girl have anything to do about anything related to mafia? No, it doesn't. *rage*

Wow, that’s kind of insensitive. People’s gender happens to be a big piece of their identity, of course they’re going to want you to get it right. And ‘basically the same’ is not the same as ‘exactly the same’- besides which, lots of feminist have a problem with the idea of the male-tense being considered the universal one.

Yes, I know, completely off topic. I’ll shut up now.

[/quote]
do I need to comment on this too?

[M4yhem]

except I focused instead of spreading blame

I mentioned three people in my first post, only two of which were suspects. You're blatently making stuff up here.

in post 0 you didn't. you set it up so you could at least come back later and say you were supicious.

Wrong. I said I wasn't convinced by the bandwagon and that Liam's speculation was justified. That puts me clearly in the 'against lynching Liam' category.

yes I would, because it's true.

When I came in, most people, including you, were voting for Liam. Is that the ‘better case’ I was supposed to focus on? Sorry, but I don’t just follow the town around, like you, I have my own opinions. I still think someone voting for a townie for incredibly weak reasons is a good bet for scum; it’s certainly better than any cases you have made.

I think it looks like coaching a scum buddy.

Think what you like, it won’t change the facts.

It looked like distancing instead of just regular disagreeing.

What makes it look like distancing rather than regular disagreeing?

You would say that woudln't you, but you'd be wrong.

I don’t think so. I don’t think it’s coincidence that the person who attacks you is the one you choose to link to Farside’s suspect.

do I need to comment on this too?

No. For future reference, if I quote other people, or address them by name, I’m talking to them and you don’t need to answer.

[Light-kun]

Post 3: "Just because I wasn't playing doesn't make my opinion invalid." Yes, and why not apply this to Farside's question since YOU know more about it than anyone.

Because it requires me to mind-read. I don’t know what was going on in Mana-kun’s mind, I only know her role and there is nothing in her role to prevent her posting content.

Yet you are trying to mind-read me, even after I told you my intentions you just blatantly ignored that. I'm not saying you shoudl trust my version because I say so, I'm saying that if you can't mind read Man, whose role you took over, what makes you think you knew all about what was happening with my comments?

I don’t have a response, but if I did, it might be similar to Sekinj here...

M4y seems a little worried about townie/scum speculation from outside sources such as meta or replacement request value of his/her predecessors. (Slightly scummy)

And? I explained my reasoning; I don’t think it’s wise to assume replacements are cleared just because they are replacements.
I don’t think I said anything about metas. Personally, I have nothing against metahunting.

I agree that scum replace just as often as town. Light will have to comment to say what exactly he thought was scummy.

I suggested you were slightly scummy due to what *could be* paranoia. Even if meta does not apply to you, it may apply to your predecessors. *Shrugs* I don’t put faith in meta, but your reaction seemed like a flinch

Post 4: Wonders why I withhold my suspects... well, maybe because they happened to not be under suspicion, so telling them that would ruin it? (Again, kind of kidding.) this post doesn't scream town or scum... (neither)

Did you ever explain why you are withholding them? Because it still seems scummy to me. I don’t see why the town benefits from you hiding what you think, and it seems like it could be a setup- for example, if you see a bandwagon you want to join, you could just say ‘oh yeah, that guy has been one of my suspects for ages’ and noone could contradict you.

light already said it was null...

Actually, I didn’t have much opinion on who is scum, with the possible exception of Liam, but he was losing suspicion from me fairly quickly. (Until his sudden attack on Sekinj. I didn’t really understand that.)

Post 5: Contentless post. Just what we all need.

Give me a break. At least I posted that day.

congrats

Posting everyday when you cannot add nothing is not necessary. Far from it.

I don’t like how quickly you agreed with Sekinj, how wishy-washy your post was, or how you are trying to set me up if Frelasa flips scum.

Fos:Lightkun

for that reason.

I am not setting you up for a lynch. Yes, I am looking for connections, and to a certain extent, they exist. However, I see Freleras as weird, not scum. In fact, I am slightly more suspicious of Liam at the moment. (Your loss of suspicion form me is due, in large part, due to your reactions when accused, but these will be useful later in the game.)

Unvote, Vote Liam

for

unvote, vote: senkinj

Yes, the way you laid out your big post was unhelpful, and I dislike your case on Frelaras a lot.

Unless you explain why you found it unhelpful and why you disliked his post, I find this to be fairly scummy. It went relatively unnoticed (with the exception of Sekinj), which surprises me.

Wonder why...

[Timeater]

Why are you voting for someone who claimed Quark and doesn't have a counter-claimer?

[ChannelDelibird]

ooba replaces Nudude. Offer your firstborns.