Mini Normal 2193 | A Member Of The SKs | Town Wins!

[esotericzoomer]

like mate if im annoying please tell me why
else i cant improve

[Battle Mage]

so prompt

also ew serial killer

not possible with current normal rules
also I refuse to believe HUB was a vig shot so I'm curious who might have wanted HUB dead

You didn't know Ydrasse had claimed Vig shooting HUB here, but you did know that HUB was not killed by mafia.

How come?

[Battle Mage]

damn i was hoping the name of the game might be a lie

The title would imply multiple SKs, right?

How do we know we aren't dealing with a vig?

I am pretty sure scum took out HUB. I would have if I were scum.

D2 start vibes tell me sam, BM and ydrasse are the PoE.

Gamma, you're town right?

i sorta feel like this is so completely off-track it must be scum right? damn...

first two lines imply being mafia (because mafia would knows there's no SKs, and must be Vig).
third line is a misdirect - scum apparently killed Gretchen. Defensively claims he would have killed HUB instead.
fourth line has a PoE with 2 conftown and 1 likely town.
fifth line is total fluff.

[In the beginning]

what’s with the lunar wagon?

dunno
tempted to hop on it because it's the purest looking one out of all of them but i'd rather give lunar some time

VOTE: Lunar Martian

so uh

giving lunar time huh?

i gave into temptation

You sure didn't deliberate that long. Idk, it does make me wonder if mafia would be so willing to be so flashy, but I kind of think you might.

As I've stated multiple times already it felt very cliquish and because everyone seemed to know everyone, I felt like an outsider looking in.

1) Clearly, everyone does

not

know everyone else. Hence, the presence of alts.
2) How is this relevant to the fact that you managed to miss something blatantly pointed out to you?

So you were encouraging people to believe you were something that you were not because of...? Why the misdirection and dishonesty? This is anti-town

You're putting words in my mouth. I neither confirmed nor denied such. It might be anti-town in some sense, but in another sense, it's perfectly sensible. It's a good way to throw scum off. (Please note that I am /still/ not confirming nor denying whether I was crumbing there or not. More specifically, you may speculate as to whether the crumb is real or not.)

Personally I think anti-town and scummy are pretty much interchangeable, but that's me.

Yes, well, this is a mindset often taken by newer and less experienced players. More experienced players know it is not that simple. Ever.

the entire thing about calling out lunar for asking questions while doing it at the same time and then missing the point of why it’s hypocritical seems like, purposefully obtuse and also tying esoteric to lunar makes me feel ungood

I don't agree. I think obtuseness here is more likely from town than scum. Scum have to fake their reads, and they have to fake being town. Furthermore, unlike the town, they are limited in who they can push and cannot push. This means they are incentivized to be more fluid with their reads, so stubbornness, especially early on, is a sign of towniness, not scum potential.

that's a personality tell for cookie rather than her being maf or town

This is also a good reason to be skeptical of assigning alignment to that aspect of play.

oh no it's absolutely scummy

This is mafia. We do not deal in absolutes. Try again.

cookie's just easy bait but she's probably town frankly

This.

You're kinda shading the wagon without really defending Lunar and then you vote the newbie queue player who wants to chomp the mafia

I'm worried ydra!

Interesting...

Lunar Martian (4): Cookie Monster, Happy Unbirthday Boon, samantha97, esotericzoomer

This wagon is kinda... eck considering Lunar's overall engagement and such. Like, it's not necessarily a scum-driven wagon, but there's definitely scum in it. It's how it formed; I don't think it formed proportionate to the actual likelihood of Lunar being scum.

So the lack of presence makes people scum. And you have battle Mage in there. In this very post you stated: "I agree with this sentiment. People's activity expectations are really unreasonable nowadays" but now you're shading Battle Mage because of... activity.

Wow, if you're gonna shade me, at least get your facts in the correct order!

I didn't make the comment to Battle Mage until **AFTER** the post I talked about lack of presence. Anyway, yes, my take there was a little bit of a double-standard; that much is true; /however/, you have to consider this from a probabilistic standpoint. Notably, it's not unreasonable to suppose that there is a scum in the lower content slots (which I think we will agree that both Lunar and Battle Mage fit at the time) and given a lack of sufficient scum reads elsewhere, poe makes it a decent likelihood.

Exaggeration? You get called out and your defense is I exaggerated? Nothing to see here huh?

This is scum looking for things to nitpick.

[Gamma Emerald]

so prompt

also ew serial killer

not possible with current normal rules
also I refuse to believe HUB was a vig shot so I'm curious who might have wanted HUB dead

You didn't know Ydrasse had claimed Vig shooting HUB here, but you did know that HUB was not killed by mafia.

How come?

I didn’t know that
I said SK wasn’t possible in that post you quoted

[Gamma Emerald]

first two lines imply being mafia (because mafia would knows there's no SKs, and must be Vig).

How the fuck would mafia specifically know that

[Battle Mage]

first two lines imply being mafia (because mafia would knows there's no SKs, and must be Vig).

How would mafia specifically know that

the hypothesis was multiple SKs. If he's mafia, he knows there isn't multiple SKs because town would be stuffed.

[Battle Mage]

stick Gamma in the PoE I guess

[In the beginning]

well i think making a post just to say someone's 'vibe is off' is just someone tryna look busy

It may look busy because it is in part such. Gut is reserved for those occasions where you cannot or would have a hard time pointing to specific evidence to support your read. Nonetheless, it is still a valid scumhunting tactic.

You're tunneling hard. It's sort of unlikely mafia tunnels town, so I'm probably gonna have to assume you're town, but I don't know.

Once more, a terrible assumption. I don't disagree that Gretchen is town (indeed, they flipped as much!), /BUT/ scum can and will tunnel people because they can and because people will write it off just like you did.

I'm trying to imagine a world where all of the following are town: funeral, samantha, gretchen and italiano

where does that leave us?

2 of the 4 are probably town: gretchen (who has already flipped as such) and samantha. The other two are probably scum, Italiano especially.

townleaning Italiano for effort

No.

townleaning Italiano for inconsistency

Also a big fat no.

Lunar - Although Lunar’s activity is lacking, the few posts he has made reminds me of Newbie 2049 where he was town.

Hmm....

Cookie Monster - Cookie’s early “why mes” kind of stand out to me. There also seems to be an overall defensiveness there and not the normal townie defensiveness. I’m gutreading this slot right now.

lol

VOTE: Lunar

E-1

Italiano you should bus Lunar Martian

Sure
VOTE: Lunar Martian

Who else thinks this was an extended quickhammer interaction?

great just missed it
so why did we vote this out

You were on the wagon and aware that it was at least F-2. If you were so ambivalent about it, why did you stay on it?

we had literally a full 8 days

Yes, but that doesn't mean we have to use them.

bc italiano is maf and was scared i'd get him voted out today. pls kill him tommorow if i don't survive the night. thanks

actually funerals e-1 vote is worse than the hammer

objectively

Meh, I agree it's bad, but I still believe Italiano's was much worse.

also ew serial killer

Seriously, does no one ever actually take the time to look at the guidelines?

damn i was hoping the name of the game might be a lie

only 2 mafia could be the vibe then

?????????

gamma sk
italiano/funeral maf
ggez

Seriously, this is scum trying to look like they are scumhunting. Now that they think there might be a serial killer, they suddenly have an avenue to generate authentic reads.

also I'm like >70% sure in the beginning is mafia, but maybe he has a tracking result or something to share

No comment for now.

I am pretty sure scum took out HUB. I would have if I were scum.

(So would I!)

that being said: hardclaiming vig who shot hub, uh, was put off by some stuff he posted

Horrible shot, but I guess it's not impossible. Like if Italiano is scum, it makes sense that Gretchen gets shot by mafia. (I would argue though that Gretchen would actually be the better vig shot and HUB would be the better scum kill.)

[samantha97]

No comment for now.

well it's kind of now or I waste my time tearing your posts apart and potential derail town

[samantha97]

potentially*

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t like this approach from Sam
Feels like she knows Itb is town and is just drilling him for info

[samantha97]

Feels like she knows Itb isn't town and is just drilling him for info

so honest

[In the beginning]

I <3 you ydrasse but HUB was totally hard-towning D1. You taking that "vig" shot on a power player N1 hurts my heart.

(Oh interesting... I don't really alt hunt (see my sig), but this does give me a guess as to who you might be.)

don't really wanna take the effort to elaborate until he posts, cause I might discard that thought when he does

If you're softing a result on me, you best out it already. You have nothing to fear anyways considering the vig is already outted and most likely a higher priority target then yourself.

But if ydrasse is to be believed with the vig shot stuff, then, lol @ scum for shooting Gret.

Tbf, this setup started with evens. That disincentives scum from making more obvious shots due to the chances that a doctor or jailkeeper is in the setup. Gretchen would be an unlikely protect target, and like I mentioned earlier, Gretchen would be a threat to a team that has Italiano in it, so there are several scenarios where it does make sense to shoot her.

hey funeral how have you managed to play this entire game and not at all say anything about italiano

I hadn't noticed this, but this is kind of interesting actually. I'm interested in the response as well.

The same way Gret and Lunar and Cookie did in regards to each other.

I already went down that road.

Not convincing whatsoever.

hmmm

i wonder if funeral goose knew they weren’t hammered

I'll have to double-check, but I'm pretty sure they said something to that effect.

is this a joke or serious?

Are /you/ joking or serious here?

Well, BM and Sam both jumped on it so it wasn't all town imo.

samantha is anti-town town. Try again.

i would guess gretchen was killed by scum for being loud and probably not a viable mis-elim.

Loud, yes, but Gretchen lacked power. That is, Gretchen lacked the ability to control the thread. Maybe she would have gained that with time, who knows? Regarding the latter part, she was definitely still a viable mis-elim, so I doubt that's why she was killed. Like the only plausible reason (and tbf, it has a high likelihood of being the case) that Gretchen was killed is two-fold: 1) scum didn't want their kill to fail or be watched and 2) Italiano is on the team and feels that Gretchen poses a threat to him. In any other case, Gretchen is a very suboptimal N1 kill. (Tbf, Gretchen probably wouldn't remain a viable mislim, but at that point in time, the odds were still in favor of it being possible.)

bm being alive d2 IS a little sus.....

Recall that BM claimed VT. In a setup like this, scum would probably want to get rid of a PR over someone confirmed not to be one. Granted, if they're performing suboptimal kills (as it seems to be the case with Gretchen), this may not strictly apply.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why do you think scum believed BM’s claim?

[In the beginning]

not rn

please.

You don't have to so blatantly bus your partner. Italiano will be limmed in due time.

Someone is trying to frame me.

This comes from someone with a guilty conscience.

Uhh, well yeah I’m a little embarrassed and I knew it was obviously gonna come up, but once I posted my readslist I left. When I came back to check in I saw Hub’s lolpost below mine and was like huh, so I went back to read page 27 and saw what transpired with Lunar. With Hub’s post in mind I just voted at the bottom of page 27. I saw Battle Mage and Samantha had voted.

The embarrassing part is when my post refreshed I saw Funeral had already put him at E-1. Ugh. I wasn’t too fret about it though, but it was goofy. That’s why I didn’t really wanna talk in twilight, but trust, me I would not have been that careless as scum. For some reason hammering is like a huge no no in this game, but I was okay with whatever heat would come. I didn’t really know where the vote was, but I didn’t expect it to be hammer.

This gets a 2/5 rating. Perhaps plausible, but overall, rather weak.

their votes have been really weak + poe

Early game isn't necessarily my forte. Furthermore, if you haven't noticed, I'm often not fully caught up, so yeah, less real time engagement.

soulread is funeral bm gamma

Why is Italiano town?

you should die today for this rolefishing alone

Esoteric should die, but not for that. It's the same thing samantha's been doing all game with me, and unfortunately, it isn't necessarily even scum-indicative. Not in today's meta anyway.

i think i've covered this, but gretchen had a 4-player pool at end of day - I know I'm town, 1 other player in there flipped town. So at best, 2/4 were scum, which isn't the most amazing. And given the amount of people peddling this argument, it feels much more likely to me that the Gretchen kill was to frame somebody in that pool.

Okay, Battle Mage is starting to look /slightly/ worse, but eh.

maybe SK stands for something different then

Flavor in normals should never have any relation to the actual setup. That would make the setup abnormal, even if the roles in it are normal.

also I refuse to believe HUB was a vig shot so I'm curious who might have wanted HUB dead

It's a debatable kill, I agree. But is it really all that surprising? People do stuff like that all the time regardless of whether it's the correct move or not.

first two lines imply being mafia (because mafia would knows there's no SKs, and must be Vig).

How the fuck would mafia specifically know that

Yeah, that take didn't really make sense, Battle Mage.

No comment for now.

well it's kind of now or I waste my time tearing your posts apart and potential derail town

Well, I guess you're gonna have to waste your time...
Like I agree, it would be more productive for you to do something more worthwhile than just rolefish me.

Why do you think scum believed BM’s claim?

Meh, maybe it's a bad assumption, but I'm inclined to take most claims at face value. I figure most people would do the same, simply because it's the easy approach.

[In the beginning]

VOTE: Italiano

I would support funeral or esoteric wagons as well.

[samantha97]

it's kind of role extortion rather than fishing but if that's your answer then yeah I hope people join me in voting for you

[samantha97]

don't really wanna take the effort to elaborate until he posts, cause I might discard that thought when he does

If you're softing a result on me, you best out it already. You have nothing to fear anyways considering the vig is already outted and most likely a higher priority target then yourself.

you have no comment but you should have nothing to fear too right?

[ItalianoVD]

It might be anti-town in some sense, but in another sense, it's perfectly sensible. It's a good way to throw scum off. (Please note that I am /still/ not confirming nor denying whether I was crumbing there or not. More specifically, you may speculate as to whether the crumb is real or not.)

Personally I don’t care if you crumbed or not as I think crumbing (unless it’s done or at least semi-blatantly) is stupid and only makes sense to the person crumbing.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: sam
I don’t see why town plays like this

[samantha97]

VOTE: sam
I don’t see why town plays like this

I don't see why town plays like this either but you don't see me voting for you

[Gamma Emerald]

Like I saw “Town!Samantha that wants others to claim”
It’s not like this

[samantha97]

I don't want others to claim, I want him to claim

[Gamma Emerald]

Doesn’t change the fact your tactics are way different