Open 93 - Near Vanilla: Game Over, Mafia Win!

[Doktor Per]

Cheers!

[MafiaSSK]

Was my wagon mainly a random wagon? OR was it actually contrived out of LAL reasons?

[Korts]

Sorry for lack of prods, I didn't have the time to check activity. ChaosOmega, thegeckoj and killa seven have been prodded due to inactivity.

retrowiz's V/LA status is noted.

[Doktor Per]

Was my wagon mainly a random wagon? OR was it actually contrived out of LAL reasons?

I can only answer for myself. I decided to run an absolutely retarded wagon against you based on a dice throw.

Seems that it's a scummy way to behave on day one. Tsk, tsk, tsk. You have much to learn.

[killa seven]

Im here.. need to see whats up with these wagons.

[Darox]

I did not vote MafiaSSK randomly.

[thegeckoj]

i didnt vote SSK's wagon randomly either. i buy into the whol scum gets caugth with his hand in the cookie jar routine.

i do find it odd that Doc pulled his vote when SSK was at L-1, since he doesnt really have much insight as to why he did it or who else he find more suspicious. this very likely makes a Doc/SSK team probable.

[Doktor Per]

Tsk, tsk, tsk, Gecko. I never pulled my vote, it's still there.

[armlx]

I like where my vote is chillin.

[SpamWise]

i didnt vote SSK's wagon randomly either. i buy into the whol scum gets caugth with his hand in the cookie jar routine.

What? It was mainly meta-reasons behind SSK's wagon, not anything he did.

i do find it odd that Doc pulled his vote when SSK was at L-1, since he doesnt really have much insight as to why he did it or who else he find more suspicious. this very likely makes a Doc/SSK team probable.

I don't think SSK was ever at L-1, L-2 maybe. And it's far too early to be searching for pairings, no-one's alignment is known yet.

unvote

Vote:thegeckoj

[ZazieR]

thegeckoj, you're talking strange here.
First of all when I saw your reason for voting SSK, I thought that it was a random/pressure vote to let him talk more.

unvote, vote: MafiaSSK

i have meta him and i dont like the looks of his page, admitted lurker playstyle is unhelpful at best, scummy at worst.

plus he doesnt even have our game on his list, makes me suspicious of him

.

plus his only two posts are one confirming(sorta) and one incourging people to meta him, which seems weird to me.

The bolded part gave me the impression that it was a random vote. How does not having a game on his wiki page make him suspicious? I want to know what your exact reason is for voting SSK. I've read somewhere that you voted him, because he was lurking in this game (why him and not someone else?) and based upon his play style. SSK also asked you why it was weird, but you never gave that answer. Can you give it?

B/c retro's meta implies this is the norm for him.

i still dont understand the vote for me.

i voted for MafiaSSK because he was lurking and because i dont like the way he tend to play games. plus he hadnt updated his current games list which lead me to believe he was conflicted about his role and didnt know how to put it down.

just because other people had voted him earlier doesnt make me scum just means people are on the same page.

i never voted retro or said anything about his meta, so i dont understand why that makes any difference.

in the few games i have played people who get a band wagon on them early then drop out tend to be scum, if they werent they usually fight a bit harder.

i still believe strongly for MafiaSSK to be scum. this is my reason not his namesake. right now i am not entirely sure who is on the 'wagon' for MafiaSSK as we havent had a vote count in awhile.

frankly i find Darox's vote of myself to opportune and see his trying to start a bandwagon on me, his '2nd choice.'
Darox:

are you just going for your 2nd choice as opposed to your first because i am seem to be an easier target and you just want a quick lynch to end day one?

this is really scummy if you ask me, but i still feel more strongly about MafiaSSK and his abandonment of the game just when the screws were getting turned to him.

Here you can see in the bolded part, you're reasons for voting him. These were lurking, his playing style and the fact that he hadn't updated his current games list. Only there have been others lurking as well, the fact that he didn't update his games list is for me not a scum tell and you've never played with him before. All your reasons for voting him are very weak. Tell me why he deserved your vote with reasons that I can see as good reasons. Until you do I'll

Vote: thegeckoj

Next you also say that some others have the same thoughts about SSK as they also voted SSK. Let's ask them all why they voted SSK. Everyone who voted SSK, please state the reasons for doing so.

This is as far as I know your third game in which you play. From two other experiences you state the part in italics. I don't know how this is called in English, but in my country this is known as a bad argument. From one or maybe two games, you're concluding something, while there are more games played besides those two in which you perhaps saw this.

Then we have the underlined part. In it you ask Darox something and then without he has given the answer to your question, you attack him. You believed he voted you as opportunism, but in his answer you could see this wasn't the case. But in the underlined part, you attack him, without waiting for his answer, stating already that he attacked you as he sees you as an 'easy' target according to you. I don't like this part at all.

Then in your last post you do the same. You state something, don't wait for an answer, and start stating something comepletly wrong according to Doctor P.

Short said, wrong reasons for voting and bad attacks. You're doing wrong things.

[armlx]

See above post.

[MafiaSSK]

Agreeing with Zazi.

unvote, vote gecko

[armlx]

I want a vote count, but I think thats L-2 aka claim time. No one else vote until this can be confirmed.

[thegeckoj]

actually by my count thats 5 votes and i'm up.

[thegeckoj]

bah never mind, its 7 needed, hold on im readying my defense...

[thegeckoj]

unvote, vote: MafiaSSK

i have meta him and i dont like the looks of his page, admitted lurker playstyle is unhelpful at best, scummy at worst.

plus he doesnt even have our game on his list, makes me suspicious of him

.

plus his only two posts are one confirming(sorta) and one incourging people to meta him, which seems weird to me.

The bolded part gave me the impression that it was a random vote. How does not having a game on his wiki page make him suspicious? I want to know what your exact reason is for voting SSK. I've read somewhere that you voted him, because he was lurking in this game (why him and not someone else?) and based upon his play style. SSK also asked you why it was weird, but you never gave that answer. Can you give it?

originally i voted him purely based on the fact that he was lurking and had a vote on him to put pressure on him hopefully to come out and start some dialog. i found it weird that at the time 1/2 of his posts was urging people to meta him. i find meta play usually helpful to others and less helpful to yourself. MafiaSSK case in particular because he claims a playstyle (lurking) that many players hate and which tend to impede progress of the game. why he would want everyone to know he has a negative playstyle (according to most) is beyond me.

B/c retro's meta implies this is the norm for him.

i still dont understand the vote for me.

i voted for MafiaSSK because he was lurking and because i dont like the way he tend to play games. plus he hadnt updated his current games list which lead me to believe he was conflicted about his role and didnt know how to put it down.

just because other people had voted him earlier doesnt make me scum just means people are on the same page.

i never voted retro or said anything about his meta, so i dont understand why that makes any difference.

in the few games i have played people who get a band wagon on them early then drop out tend to be scum, if they werent they usually fight a bit harder.

i still believe strongly for MafiaSSK to be scum. this is my reason not his namesake. right now i am not entirely sure who is on the 'wagon' for MafiaSSK as we havent had a vote count in awhile.

frankly i find Darox's vote of myself to opportune and see his trying to start a bandwagon on me, his '2nd choice.'
Darox:

are you just going for your 2nd choice as opposed to your first because i am seem to be an easier target and you just want a quick lynch to end day one?

this is really scummy if you ask me, but i still feel more strongly about MafiaSSK and his abandonment of the game just when the screws were getting turned to him.

Here you can see in the bolded part, you're reasons for voting him. These were lurking, his playing style and the fact that he hadn't updated his current games list. Only there have been others lurking as well, the fact that he didn't update his games list is for me not a scum tell and you've never played with him before. All your reasons for voting him are very weak. Tell me why he deserved your vote with reasons that I can see as good reasons. Until you do I'll

Vote: thegeckoj

i have explained why i voted him. of course there were others who were lurking two but sometimes you have to pick someone out of the few that seem scummy. to you my reasons may seem weak but since it is all i have to go on they are important to me.

Next you also say that some others have the same thoughts about SSK as they also voted SSK. Let's ask them all why they voted SSK. Everyone who voted SSK, please state the reasons for doing so.

This is as far as I know your third game in which you play. From two other experiences you state the part in italics. I don't know how this is called in English, but in my country this is known as a bad argument. From one or maybe two games, you're concluding something, while there are more games played besides those two in which you perhaps saw this.

i have only played two games on this site but i have played a few others online and in person as well. in the few games i have played (maybe 8 in total) this was my experience. again this is all i have to go on so it makes sense to me. this was even the case in the 'live' games, scum went quite once they felt defeated and resigned to their fate.

Then we have the underlined part. In it you ask Darox something and then without he has given the answer to your question, you attack him. You believed he voted you as opportunism, but in his answer you could see this wasn't the case. But in the underlined part, you attack him, without waiting for his answer, stating already that he attacked you as he sees you as an 'easy' target according to you. I don't like this part at all.

Then in your last post you do the same. You state something, don't wait for an answer, and start stating something comepletly wrong according to Doctor P.

first i dont know what you are really saying about Darox. i accused him of wanting to start a band wagon on me and stated that it was probably because he just wanted to off a seemingly easier target with a quick lynch. HE confirmed he did want to start a band wagon on me.

in my last post i made a mistake i thought the Doc had pulled his vote, he didnt, i jumped the gun. plus i do agree with him that it is to early to start guessing pairs.
i dont understand what you are saying i state something and dont wait for an answer? i wasnt aware statements needed answers. plus my statement was my sentiment, the fact that i believed MafiaSKK got caught being scummy and dropped out when he felt defeated, the main reason i feel that he is scum and continue to maintain my vote for him.

Short said, wrong reasons for voting and bad attacks. You're doing wrong things.

i think your reasons for voting me are bad and your attacks are fluff and just really drawn out. i appreciate the coaching but i think you are way off base here. i am not sure what you are trying to accomplish by make such a long post. you could have simply said "thegeckoj jumped on a bandwagon and makes attacks and doesnt wait for answers." this would have been much simpler and much easier for me to quote.

i urge you and the others on my bandwagon to reread the game so far and you will see what i mean about the who hand in the cookie jar with Mafia. i agree my play hasnt been ideal but at worst it has suspect definitly not something worth a lynch on. i am pro-town and trying to dig the truth as much as anyone. my playstyle clearly rubs ZazieR the wrong was because i am a bit abbraisive and accusatory but i find 'bad cop' tends to ferret out the scum while a few other pro-town players maintain the 'good cop.'

[ZazieR]

In your post you said, that your original vote was based upon lurking and had a vote against him. If that was your original vote, then what about now?
I can understand why he told us to meta him, however I'll let him answer first.

Geckoj, in one of SSK's post he explains his method of scumhunting. What do you think of that approach?

Explain the reasons of voting again and why these reasons are scummy.

You're concluding something from your own games that you've played. However, there are other games as well on this site, including scum with different methods. Do you think that your games can predict how scum will behave in this game?
What did you mean with 'scum went quite once they felt defeated and resigned to their fate.' and what has it to do with this game?

You got my point from the Darox part. You BELIEVED that that was what he was trying to do. You made a question to Darox, but without waiting you decided that it was his attention to get an 'easier target'. That's wrong. Besides, he only said that he wanted to start a bandwagon. Did he give his reasons for starting it? The correct answer is yes, he did:

Sineish is the person I found most suspicious out of the SSK wagon, but you are giving an interesting response to the votes upon you, and you were the person I found most suspicious after Sineish. Of course I want a bandwagon to start on you.

Explain how he is admitting here that he's starting a bandwagon on you as you're an 'easier target'.

You're starting to talk about a doctor P/SSk scumpair, without waiting for Doctor P's explanation.

To me, you're the guy with his hand in the cookie jar. You saw SSK's bandwagon, thought to enjoy it, but you got stuck.

[Korts]

ChaosOmega hasn't picked up his prod, looking for a replacement. Also, vote count coming up sometime today. Don't have time right now for activity checks, if you want anyone prodded, please bold it in-thread.

[Sineish]

Unvote

i urge you and the others on my bandwagon to reread the game so far and you will see what i mean about the who hand in the cookie jar with Mafia.

That's twice you've talked about the hand in the cookie jar thing. Can you give us some quotes to explain what you mean by this?

I want a vote count, but I think thats L-2 aka claim time. No one else vote until this can be confirmed.

I make it L-2 as well. I'm not voting yet because I think there's more questions that need answering.

[Korts]

The "wagons come, wagons go" Vote Count (AKA Fourth Vote Count)

(4) thegeckoj -armlx, Darox, SpamWise, MafiaSSK

(3) MafiaSSK -Doktor Per, ChaosOmega, thegeckoj
(1) retrowiz -Apothecary
(1) Darox -ZazieR
(1) Doctor Per -Gamma
(1) armlx -killa seven
(1) Gamma -retrowiz

not voting:

Sineish

Please double-check, this was written on the go.

[Darox]

Zazier voted for gecko.

[Korts]

Zazier voted for gecko.

I couldn't find an unvote.

[Korts]

Apothecary, Gamma, and killa seven prodded. killa seven has one more prod before he is replaced.

[ZazieR]

Did I forgot to unvote? Sorry about that mistake.

unvote Vote:thegeckoj