TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[Dunnstral]

prior to team mafia and 2180 my understanding of your posting was that it was very terse and one-lined as either alignment. have you intentionally been writing longer and more thought-heavy posts lately or am i just crazy? in that sense i just dont have a great sense of your meta. i think the fact that auro who is probably way better at interpreting this stuff than me can get your alignment right 5/5 times and is scumreading you here is just another thing making it more likely you are scum here fmpov

If you see me writing shorter posts and not often, and not digging deep into the game, that means I'm not interested/not engaged/don't have time to be engaged with that game yet

It's something that I do as both alignments. Activity is not a good meta tell for me, it's also not the tell that is being used here

I'm capable of posting a lot as town/scum, this is team mafia so I'm definitely not going to lurk this one out in any case

[hercule]

anyway that's enough caping for me

[OkaPoka]

17p 4 v 13 no ic Dance
15p baton pass
14p Pick Your Power
13p mini theme
9p closed micro normal

thoughts on this boys?

[Ythan]

Yeah stop bumping your noise.

[OkaPoka]

ur a hater

[Dunnstral]

the case for scum!LLD, to me, is:

1. enters the thread with sole purpose of discrediting mastina and "eliminate players in inverse order of her preference"

2. then decides to back up this idea by saying just that my entrance was garbage

3. re-iterates that my entrance was garbage multiple times in order to get votes on me

4. rallies the thread to vote me, still with no evidence

(4.5?) big ego post about their scumgame

5. when i finally respond to her like, "ok, enough's enough let's talk" she's just like "nah lol you're caught scum"

6. when i'm like "ok well that's bullshit" she's like "lmaoooo such a scum reaction now my vote is, like, even more justified"

7. when a counterwagon forms on her, she AtEs and leaves the thread (also like, can't tell if she's mad that more people aren't voting me despite her not seeming to be sure or just mad that she's being voted)

i'm aware this is a slightly humorously uncharitable framing of her game but it also feels like a somewhat reasonable one

At this point I want dgb to point to what the case was -before- this post, but:

1-3, 4.5 I don't think is scummy. 2-3 Can come from town who is scumhunting, in particular
4. I disagree that there is no evidence. Off the top of my head she laid some stuff out/pointed to things and said it felt like scum
5-6 is fair. I don't think it's a smoking gun because where she is coming from is that if you're scum then allowing you to change the conversation/nitpick at little things she says is not something she wants to do, but he should probably be letting you speak and reconsidering if she isn't as confident as she is projecting at this point
7 idk

[Dunnstral]

Ythan, can you give me some opinions?

[Dunnstral]

i dont enjoy doing this but people see big blocks of text and become hypnotized without critically analyzing them for actual value and i'd like to win this game without just betting it all on a black box full of random chance.

How does this line up with:

i did not do a lot of research i just saw something that sounded convincing and said sure that can have my vote let's see how that goes

[innocentvillager]

i think it just goes back to cephrir not liking mastina I don’t think it’s AI

[Cephrir]

i dont enjoy doing this but people see big blocks of text and become hypnotized without critically analyzing them for actual value and i'd like to win this game without just betting it all on a black box full of random chance.

How does this line up with:

i did not do a lot of research i just saw something that sounded convincing and said sure that can have my vote let's see how that goes

there are points in there that i read and enjoyed
i dont want to continue dunking on mastina every post i make but she says "LLD is scum, she feels like scum, could this come from a town LLD? yes. but it just doesn't this game. xtoxm knows what i'm talking about. dannflor knows what i'm talking about. dgb knows what i'm talking about." 200 different ways and that is not analysis

[hercule]

the case for scum!LLD, to me, is:

1. enters the thread with sole purpose of discrediting mastina and "eliminate players in inverse order of her preference"

2. then decides to back up this idea by saying just that my entrance was garbage

3. re-iterates that my entrance was garbage multiple times in order to get votes on me

4. rallies the thread to vote me, still with no evidence

(4.5?) big ego post about their scumgame

5. when i finally respond to her like, "ok, enough's enough let's talk" she's just like "nah lol you're caught scum"

6. when i'm like "ok well that's bullshit" she's like "lmaoooo such a scum reaction now my vote is, like, even more justified"

7. when a counterwagon forms on her, she AtEs and leaves the thread (also like, can't tell if she's mad that more people aren't voting me despite her not seeming to be sure or just mad that she's being voted)

i'm aware this is a slightly humorously uncharitable framing of her game but it also feels like a somewhat reasonable one

At this point I want dgb to point to what the case was -before- this post, but:

1-3, 4.5 I don't think is scummy. 2-3 Can come from town who is scumhunting, in particular
4. I disagree that there is no evidence. Off the top of my head she laid some stuff out/pointed to things and said it felt like scum
5-6 is fair. I don't think it's a smoking gun because where she is coming from is that if you're scum then allowing you to change the conversation/nitpick at little things she says is not something she wants to do, but he should probably be letting you speak and reconsidering if she isn't as confident as she is projecting at this point
7 idk

I think this is a reasonable take on the situation, also it wasn't supposed to be necessarily each point was scummy more just a narrative of her play this game that overall I feel is scummy. I agree that 2-3 can be fine in a vacuum and maybe 5-6 isn't a smoking gun but yes the "projected confidence" is what gets me and maybe there's an explanation for it that she hasn't shared yet. But I am also colored by my team's take on 7

[hercule]

i dont enjoy doing this but people see big blocks of text and become hypnotized without critically analyzing them for actual value and i'd like to win this game without just betting it all on a black box full of random chance.

How does this line up with:

i did not do a lot of research i just saw something that sounded convincing and said sure that can have my vote let's see how that goes

there are points in there that i read and enjoyed
i dont want to continue dunking on mastina every post i make but she says "LLD is scum, she feels like scum, could this come from a town LLD? yes. but it just doesn't this game. xtoxm knows what i'm talking about. dannflor knows what i'm talking about. dgb knows what i'm talking about." 200 different ways and that is not analysis

From my memory there was only one post like that

[hercule]

i dont enjoy doing this but people see big blocks of text and become hypnotized without critically analyzing them for actual value and i'd like to win this game without just betting it all on a black box full of random chance.

How does this line up with:

i did not do a lot of research i just saw something that sounded convincing and said sure that can have my vote let's see how that goes

also this is a good catch in general regardless of whether there is a good explanation

[Dunnstral]

You don't seem like you feel very strongly about me being scum Cephrir

You're adopting a wait-and-see approach except I'm here and we're not waiting for me

What are you hoping to gain from your vote of me? Are you waiting for somebody else? We're kind of saying the same things right now so this feels like a weird stance, those two posts you keep pointing to don't look so convincing to me

[Cephrir]

yes the "projected confidence" is what gets me

i think this is just who she is, but i can see why someone new to her would feel this way

[Cephrir]

You don't seem like you feel very strongly about me being scum Cephrir

You're adopting a wait-and-see approach except I'm here and we're not waiting for me

What are you hoping to gain from your vote of me? Are you waiting for somebody else? We're kind of saying the same things right now so this feels like a weird stance, those two posts you keep pointing to don't look so convincing to me

i don't

im probably going to look at your iso at some point, im posting in class rn though

you are generally on My Side Of The Game (the side that likes reason) but that doesn't make you town

[Dunnstral]

I think this is a reasonable take on the situation, also it wasn't supposed to be necessarily each point was scummy more just a narrative of her play this game that overall I feel is scummy. I agree that 2-3 can be fine in a vacuum and maybe 5-6 isn't a smoking gun but yes the "projected confidence" is what gets me and maybe there's an explanation for it that she hasn't shared yet. But I am also colored by my team's take on 7

She said she was projecting confidence because if she doesn't, the wagon on you falls apart. Which seems fine to me if she's trying to pressure you, and then she talked about that with me.

What I'm considering is that maybe she was trying to buddy with me, because I'm not really sure why she was all 'thank god you're town' at me earlier. This isn't me saying she's scummy, this is just a consideration, and it's subtle, but I do think lld would be interested in buddying me in a subtle way. I'm willing to work with lld regardless

[hercule]

I think this is a reasonable take on the situation, also it wasn't supposed to be necessarily each point was scummy more just a narrative of her play this game that overall I feel is scummy. I agree that 2-3 can be fine in a vacuum and maybe 5-6 isn't a smoking gun but yes the "projected confidence" is what gets me and maybe there's an explanation for it that she hasn't shared yet. But I am also colored by my team's take on 7

She said she was projecting confidence because if she doesn't, the wagon on you falls apart. Which seems fine to me if she's trying to pressure you, and then she talked about that with me.

What I'm considering is that maybe she was trying to buddy with me, because I'm not really sure why she was all 'thank god you're town' at me earlier. This isn't me saying she's scummy, this is just a consideration, and it's subtle, but I do think lld would be interested in buddying me in a subtle way. I'm willing to work with lld regardless

I remember her saying she needed the charisma to keep the wagon on me but that was later and doesn't track for me with how she was engaging me when I was initially reaching out to her.

[hercule]

btw I am going to be out of town from Saturday until Saturday. I won't exactly be V/LA because I will have my laptop and I'll make sure to log in to my account on my phone before I leave. But I won't have a ton of time to play. If that's an issue for anyone let me know and I'll see if I can do anything about it

[Almost50]

Some people, like yourself, agar, are just not that fast to vote.

"Not fast to vote" is different from "not

willing

to vote" though. So far I have been unwilling to vote LLD, as I had her as a TR. Only lately (like.. the past 24 hrs or so) did I start considering voting her (after having been shown that what I TR'd her for was her exacr tactic used as Scum before)

[Almost50]

my dude.

it got to like 8 votes without there even being a case.

that's not pulling teeth.

What if the tooth was already loose though?

[innocentvillager]

prior to team mafia and 2180 my understanding of your posting was that it was very terse and one-lined as either alignment. have you intentionally been writing longer and more thought-heavy posts lately or am i just crazy? in that sense i just dont have a great sense of your meta. i think the fact that auro who is probably way better at interpreting this stuff than me can get your alignment right 5/5 times and is scumreading you here is just another thing making it more likely you are scum here fmpov

If you see me writing shorter posts and not often, and not digging deep into the game, that means I'm not interested/not engaged/don't have time to be engaged with that game yet

It's something that I do as both alignments. Activity is not a good meta tell for me, it's also not the tell that is being used here

I'm capable of posting a lot as town/scum, this is team mafia so I'm definitely not going to lurk this one out in any case

yeah I’m not crazy

I’m talking about the games we’ve played

Mini normal 2156 launch mob - town
Newbie 2017 ducks - town
Open 792 monks and masons (with agar from here) - multiball scum

I just checked your ISOs from those games and they are night and day difference from your 2180 and two Team Mafia LN games

so you just weren’t engaged in those games but you were in 2180 and this I guess? fair

[innocentvillager]

btw I am going to be out of town from Saturday until Saturday. I won't exactly be V/LA because I will have my laptop and I'll make sure to log in to my account on my phone before I leave. But I won't have a ton of time to play. If that's an issue for anyone let me know and I'll see if I can do anything about it

that is an issue for me.

[Dunnstral]

when dunn is town he provides insightful reads that are well explained. when he is scum, this is not always the case, especially early in the game. he is prone to making blanket statements such as "i like [player]" with little or no justification. as town, he just goes straight into explaining his positions. auro looked over these iso's, with a focus on identifying non backed up blanket statements. the tell itself is not absolute - there are some instances of him doing it as town - but they are much rarer. people may cheery pick these to refute our case, but i'll reiterate: auro called dunn's alignment correctly every time.

instances of dunn doing it this game:

I like Dannflor for town after thinking about it. I always have, but I'm less reserved about this read. I don't buy into mastina's case here

I agree that a50 looks like town. Not a strong read

And I don't like DGB on 37

And I do like Dann, Ceph, jjh, and to a cautious extent lld

The worst/Winter Flakes/Titus: This group feels unreadable for me; I want to say there's probably scum in this group

Subject: TENET - Game Over

Dunn who do you want to lim over here?

I don't know, it's a hard decision. I can process of elimination it, though.

I also don't want to elim Brian because I like what he's been saying

Or Annie

I don't and didn't think that a50 was scum

Spiffeh your play today has not been impressive

Bell IDK.

Titus is starting to look like a possibility. I never saw the sirius posts but I'm guessing they're not all they're hyped up to be.

[Dunnstral]

I also clearly did this in the previous run of this setup

You were in that game