Mini Normal 2191 | Endgame

[TheFuzzylogic99]

Not knowing the specifics of Cabd roles it hard to tell how the mechanics of our two roles relate and I am not going to ask, Not seeing how I would be able to clear two people unless we have a vast majority of vanilla townies. This seems to assume there is at least 3-4 VT. Maybe my math is terrible Remember I can only tell if a player is VT or not VT. Town PR and Scum will both come out as not VT. There is also the chance I actually hit two VT with my 2 chances. This is why I hated to draw doctors in these games. The chance for me to be actually to be useful seems slim.

I am not sure why Cabd is CC here when she specifically said that no one should cc. Right now there is no reason to believe she is lying, I asked to be CC because I know my role and I believe that there is no role out there that goes against it.. I guess it all depends on how many VT out there. Maybe my logic is bad here.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

Okay reading would be a nice change of pace for me.....

Cabd seems very random if I read her post right, That means that whether she protects or investigate is up to a mod coin toss. Not seeing anything that makes the game unbalance atm here.TBF I am terrible at balance and have a good chance of making a pretty unbalance game if i was to mod. I cant imagine her being able to self protect and investigate the same night as that would make her OP. The only way her CC makes me scum is if she is also a Neo cop.

[Cabd]

You sure do always live up your name, man.

[Maduisha]

I asked to be CC because I know my role and I believe that there is no role out there that goes against it.. I guess it all depends on how many VT out there.

I can't understand this bit, can you rephrase it...

(Also, Cabd might be using a Medea profile picture, but he uses male pronouns according to profile.)

[Cabd]

I'm male but have the good fortune to being amused, not offended, if misgendered.

[nepenthe]

VOTE: Nepenthe

I think I'm actually going to place this here for pressure, I really want you to elaborate on your thoughts. And I believe a little back and forth could help us understand each other, if you are willing to engage with me here.

It's a bit late in the day to vote someone "for pressure," isn't it? Especially when you say that's what it's for. I don't believe I would feel any pressure at all from a vote like that.

Nah, not at all! I was pressuring for him to engage with me specifically, not to threaten to hunt him down. I wouldn't have made 450 otherwise, it makes no sense. I felt he addressed the topic but explicitly avoided my points, so I wanted to make sure to be able to sort my issues with Nep before the night phase started.

also worth noting, i feel like pushing on me because i liked chumbo's entrance versus not liking clidd is just a lazy thing that scum can easily latch onto when it's actually not the big contradictory mindtrap people want to set it up as.

some people are capable of having good entrances as either alignment, chumbo's did and it felt genuine. do you guys want me to ignore the fact that i don't townread the new person in the slot because the old person in the slot arguably had a better entrance to the game?

c'mon now. let's think.

It's not a contradiction because they're different people with different playstyles. I think I noted that down in one of the posts in which I addressed you about it, but it's interesting you think people "want to set it up as a contradictory mindtrap." If you have such suspicions, why are you still voting Clidd instead of Ben or me that pushed you about this?

Regardless, my question about this whole deal was how does the Chumbo townread affect your read of Clidd. I'm asking this because Clidd and Chumbo don't exist in a vacuum, they both saw the same role pm and you read them in two different alignments, which means you're wrong about one of the reads, so that's something to reflect on. And I'm not insisting on this point because of thinking you can't townread scum and then realize they're scum afterwards; I'm well aware that's a possibility, and it happened to me in my last game as well. I just want you to tell us which of the two reads you think is more likely to be wrong, and how do both of the reads mesh together in your mind.

i feel like i already answered this and i really hate repeating myself - again, apologies if that's blunt but it's a text based game where you can always filter and reread me if there's something i've already expanded on, and i've definitely expanded on this. if it helps, i bolded exactly what i think is the answer to your question.

VOTE: Nepenthe

I think I'm actually going to place this here for pressure, I really want you to elaborate on your thoughts. And I believe a little back and forth could help us understand each other, if you are willing to engage with me here.

this probably sounds stubborn and i don't mean for it to, but i townread you so there's no real reason for me to push myself to engage with you further if i feel good about the read. you're welcome to vote me, i'm not really someone who responds to pressure and certainly not at the final hour.

I get not wanting to repeat yourself (I hate that too, it's kinda the reason why I voted you for engagement pressure, I felt like I was repeating my concern and getting skimmed over), and I read what you have highlighted, don't worry. So, what you are saying is that despite having an early townread of Clidd's slot, you think your scumread of the current user overrides the impressions you got from Chumbo, correct? I want you to confirm that:

a) You don't "clean the slate" when people replace into a slot.
b) You now reread Chumbo's entrance and

can

see it as scum making an effort to blend in.

That's the way I can understand your logic and I want to know if I'm wrong. You can just answer yes/no to avoid repeating yourself, but it would be helpful for my understanding of the way you play if you do so.

i had a whole reply to this typed up that i somehow lost so i'm gonna try to reorganize those thoughts again:

1. yes and no. to an extent, sometimes my view of a slot can be colored by the actions of the person in it before, especially the longer a game goes on and the more prolific their play was while they were in the slot. considering chumbo was here for like a day, i wouldn't consider him prolific, if that makes sense. beyond that though, i generally try to approach any replacement with fresh eyes rather than informing my read based on how the previous player played because i think everyone plays a bit differently and someone may be better as scum than their replacement, so if they got me to successfully townread them and then were replaced by someone who maybe doesn't have a strong scumgame and who i immediately read as scum, it does me no good to hold onto that old read. does that make sense?

2. chumbo's entrance is less and less important to me as the game progresses because of the point i made about prolific play/time spent in a game but yeah, i can say it's possible he's just a strong/confident scum player who was able to enter the game naturally, which is what the case would have to be if my read on his replacement is correct. i hope i've answered these questions well? for some reason i'm worried about missing something but if there's anything else, just ask. i should be around all day.

[Maduisha]

Thank you for answering. Now I think I understand your logic a bit better and why the drastic change happened, given that you supposedly had already drawn AI material from the slot, and the usual policy that I've seen is that it's not good to completely discard your initial read in case of replacement, I was having my doubts about if it made sense. I also really wanted a statement about your usual handling of replacements because I was under the impression that perhaps that one was being singled out in a way that was worrying me, but with that information now I can better assess your upcoming interactions with the two replaced slots. With that worry being out of the picture, I think can more comfortably rule out certain possibilities moving onwards.

Also, I imagine you're going to comment on the current claim discussion soon, and I would like to hear your opinion on Cabd and Fuzzy's claims. Especially because you're voting Clidd at the moment, since I don't think anyone is sold on that wagon yet and we have yet to decide EoD elimination.

[clidd]

Zulfy and Lenora are yet to return to the game.

In the meantime:

Non-Official Vote Count

Zulfy

(3): clidd, Umlaut, ben dover123

TheFuzzylogic99

(1): Zulfy

Cabd

(1): lenora

Clidd

(1): nepenthe

nepenthe

(1): Maduisha

Not Voting

(5): TheFuzzylogic99, Cabd

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-01-27 21:11:00)

[Cabd]

I'll be around this evening to vote as needed.

[clidd]

I am comfortable with the current wagon.

If I were to consider a pivot, it would probably be to Lenora, but it is very unlikely that there is support for that.

Fuzzy remains weird, but in a towny way. Cabd is someone I intend to keep in the game, towny pings. Maduisha, Ben and Umlaut are strong townreads.

Nep is a special case that I am still evaluating, but I did not feel any scummy traces in her explanations, although she literally ignored what I asked. No interest in pivoting to her today.

That's all.

[Maduisha]

It's almost midnight in Spain. Should I place the vote in the common consensus slot now and put him at E-1, or should I wait? I should be able to visit the thread in the morning before work still.

[clidd]

You can put him on E-1, I don't know if I'll be able to visit the thread in the morning.

[Maduisha]

Alright, I trust no lulhammer will happen before he is able to claim.

VOTE: Zulfy

E-1.

Good night, guys.

[clidd]

Good night, Miss Maduisha.

I hope to see you on D2, if we are both alive.

[Cabd]

Multiple folks from Europe, eh? Nice.

I'll be around, it's only 5PM here.

[clidd]

Multiple folks from Europe, eh? Nice.

I'll be around, it's only 5PM here.

You are lucky, lol.

[clidd]

By the way, Zulfy, if you're reading this, it's time to claim.

Get out of your scum den and post.

[ben dover123]

Hey cabd what's your read on zulfy rn.

[Cabd]

Meh. I'll be honest with ya'll if I haven't named a name they're kinda in the "don't care" pile and I don't particularly mind if they die.

I also know confirmed town was voting them so that's kind of cool too.

[Cabd]

At this point I'm just in "blood for the blood gods" and "data for the data gods" mode here. Annoyed that I outed but at the same time, I'll just WIFOM the self protect vs invest shot so scum can flip a coin against my own.

[Cabd]

Now to drive home in an 8 inches of snow Chicago winter.

See ya'll sometime between an hour and ten years, depending on road conditions of the parking lot known as interstate 294.

[nepenthe]

Thank you for answering. Now I think I understand your logic a bit better and why the drastic change happened, given that you supposedly had already drawn AI material from the slot, and the usual policy that I've seen is that it's not good to completely discard your initial read in case of replacement, I was having my doubts about if it made sense. I also really wanted a statement about your usual handling of replacements because I was under the impression that perhaps that one was being singled out in a way that was worrying me, but with that information now I can better assess your upcoming interactions with the two replaced slots. With that worry being out of the picture, I think can more comfortably rule out certain possibilities moving onwards.

Also, I imagine you're going to comment on the current claim discussion soon, and I would like to hear your opinion on Cabd and Fuzzy's claims. Especially because you're voting Clidd at the moment, since I don't think anyone is sold on that wagon yet and we have yet to decide EoD elimination.

re: claims, i'd prefer not to vote anyone claiming a PR on day one - i believe fuzzy's claim, cabd's feels a bit more opportunistic to me but both could be real, as much of a stretch as i feel that is. i just think it's incredibly terrible luck if we collectively pushed out two PRS on day one, like... unluckier than i'm willing to believe we are.

[Cabd]

Can you expand a little bit on what you mean by opportunistic? I realize that me asking this is kind of a little self-biased but I'm interested to hear your logic behind that characterization

[TheFuzzylogic99]

Maybe I am wrong but Cabd's claim seems like a bluff or a gambit atp . if that is true I dont know if that makes him town or scum. I would lean town as it would be a wierd gambit /bluff coming town. His action does not seem to match up with what one would expect from a player with that role. I guess he could be a JOAT but I have my doubts atm.

[ben dover123]

Thank you for answering. Now I think I understand your logic a bit better and why the drastic change happened, given that you supposedly had already drawn AI material from the slot, and the usual policy that I've seen is that it's not good to completely discard your initial read in case of replacement, I was having my doubts about if it made sense. I also really wanted a statement about your usual handling of replacements because I was under the impression that perhaps that one was being singled out in a way that was worrying me, but with that information now I can better assess your upcoming interactions with the two replaced slots. With that worry being out of the picture, I think can more comfortably rule out certain possibilities moving onwards.

Also, I imagine you're going to comment on the current claim discussion soon, and I would like to hear your opinion on Cabd and Fuzzy's claims. Especially because you're voting Clidd at the moment, since I don't think anyone is sold on that wagon yet and we have yet to decide EoD elimination.

re: claims, i'd prefer not to vote anyone claiming a PR on day one - i believe fuzzy's claim, cabd's feels a bit more opportunistic to me but both could be real, as much of a stretch as i feel that is. i just think it's incredibly terrible luck if we collectively pushed out two PRS on day one, like... unluckier than i'm willing to believe we are.

How is Cabd's claim opportunistic? Also can you explain to me how Fuzzy's play makes sense in the context of a PR? I still don't get that.

Maybe I am wrong but Cabd's claim seems like a bluff or a gambit atp . if that is true I dont know if that makes him town or scum. I would lean town as it would be a wierd gambit /bluff coming town. His action does not seem to match up with what one would expect from a player with that role. I guess he could be a JOAT but I have my doubts atm.

What were you expecting from Cabd?