Mini Normal 2187: PIFiMDM [game over!]

[Dannflor]

Are we sure these second night kills come from a vigilante rather than a serial killer?

hm

[Dannflor]

I assume Gamma was the vig shot night 2?

[Dannflor]

oh right unwnd already said it was and you didn't contradict that

[Dannflor]

Kazyan, I'm having a hard time believing you shot Gamma when he was among your top town reads and you didn't really have any discernible reason to sheep the newly replaced in NSG at that time :/

[Kazyan]

Gamma was indeed a townread, but I shot him anyway because my Day 1 was a disaster--I got a Bulletproof Townie eliminated and shot our JOAT. So the second time around, I went with the "just shoot whoever town is going to eliminate next" strategy instead of relying on my judgment. I figured it would advance the conversation even if I was right, since people were digging into pre-flip associatives with Gamma.

[Kazyan]

I'm pretty annoyed at that in retrospect, because unwnd was leading that Gamma conversation, so it looks like I did the Mafia's job for them.

[unwnd]

Even though you're my CC I'm not sure if I'm ready to believe this is your first game of Mafia, you play with someone with varied experience

[Kazyan]

I've played in several sessions of voice chat Among Us with a friend who is brutally effective at deduction work. That voice chat also included Hayker, who uses Mafia terminology and theory (look at his join date), so I know about e.g. not voting on 4 people left, which is called MELo here.

In addition, I once played in a nearly-freeform sci-fi tabletop RPG where the premise was to find the double agent. It happened to be me in that game, so I spent a lot of time in a Mafia mindset, including deflecting suspicion onto an NPC. I know that saying these things really don't help my case in proving that I'm town, but they're true, and I'm saying true things even when they're inconvenient. Ben apparently didn't like it. Neither did NPOM (unwnd's slot), nor Lunar.

I also like to read the wiki. After a few weeks, I pick up the jargon.

[unwnd]

Hayker invited you here? I'll give you some credit: You seemed to at least recognize that Hayker existed in this game as just lazily Ctrl+F'ing you there's about 60 results.

[unwnd]

I'm willing to call Alchemist and Hayker as light scumreads. I know I used Hayker's post as a template with which to lay out my thoughts, but that doesn't remotely mean Hayker is town.

HWS and Hayker are null. I decline to comment on Elements.

Why did your progression change here? I get how stupid this is but just entertain me

[Dannflor]

I also like to read the wiki

I'm guessing this is where you got the idea to crumb?

[unwnd]

Your read on Lunar starts off as strongest townread but then you make a post like #873 that seems to entertain an idea that contradicts your own thoughts, postulating on different teams. You do this again in #1220, with an interval between stating that you think is 'just okay' now. Lunar turns into someone you're willing to elim over the course of D3. Why did this read change and why do you think I'm lunar's partner? Is it because I think he's town, something you mostly agreed with up until about D3?

[Dannflor]

kaz/elements and kaz/2nd

(which currently seem to me to be the two most likely teams, if it wasn't clear)

thing is i don't have a lot of reasons to scumread 2nd individually and honestly the connections between kaz and 2nd are a little sparse, at least purely from memory

I guess one question is why NSG was killed over Lunar if the team is something like unwnd/2nd, and the only really satisfying answer I can think of barring extreme WIFOM is that lunar would have to be scum... But I'm not sure I really believe they are aligned with anyone here.

[Dannflor]

Maybe I should be more suspicious of Lunar than I am, but I'm really trying and just failing to see them as mafia

[Kazyan]

Hayker invited you here? I'll give you some credit: You seemed to at least recognize that Hayker existed in this game as just lazily Ctrl+F'ing you there's about 60 results.

I mean, yeah. He told everyone this in 422.

I also like to read the wiki

I'm guessing this is where you got the idea to crumb?

Sort of. I learned what breadcrumbing was on Day 1 because I had to look it up in the rules. Alchemist's crumb also made an impression on me, and figuring out the whole "why would a townie lie about their power role?" conundrum made the concept stick better.

Why did your progression change here? I get how stupid this is but just entertain me

I don't remember. that was weeks ago.

[unwnd]

There's such a dissonance between you three. The only reason I'm asking you directly is to present my case as to why I'm town and nothing you've done makes sense. I don't know, I really do just think Lunar is town and that maybe that feeling I had on D3 was because RNGesus decided that 3 people who really knew each other happened to be scum together. It's the same argument I gave 2ndchosen, but if you guys were so attuned to one another through experience then why does it seem like the content between you three was so barren.

[Dannflor]

Also I don't like elements voting limbaity Lunar.

Well this post kind of sums up my thoughts on NoPower very nicely. NoPower makes a lot of short posts that don't say much. Most of them just serve to lightly discredit other people (in this case discrediting me somewhat and elements somewhat more). I also think this post is pretty ironic given what NoPower proceeded to do the next few days in terms of going after me. For someone who keeps touting the importance of finding Town, I'm not sure who NoPower thinks is Town. Not even sure if he ever even answered who is in the "townblock".

I want to give a list of my thoughts.
These folks are of the Town: Gamma, Hayker, Ben, Kazyan probably, Papa Zito maybe.
Elements has a fair shot of being Town.
Unsure of Alchemist, HeWhoSwims, and 2ndchosen1.
I think PenguinPower and NoPower are probably my two top picks for Mafia.

this makes it feel like a lunar/unwnd team is somewhat unlikely

although this suspicion is dropped later somewhat randomly

[Kazyan]

I guess one question is why NSG was killed over Lunar if the team is something like unwnd/2nd, and the only really satisfying answer I can think of barring extreme WIFOM is that lunar would have to be scum... But I'm not sure I really believe they are aligned with anyone here.

I'm fairly sure that unwnd is the jailkeeper, because that leaves Lunar to take the shot, and Lunar is the only one here who seems eager to make confusing decisions like that.

Your read on Lunar starts off as strongest townread but then you make a post like #873 that seems to entertain an idea that contradicts your own thoughts, postulating on different teams. You do this again in #1220, with an interval between stating that you think is 'just okay' now. Lunar turns into someone you're willing to elim over the course of D3. Why did this read change and why do you think I'm lunar's partner? Is it because I think he's town, something you mostly agreed with up until about D3?

1456 basically answers why I think Lunar is scum, and your counterclaim confirms that you're scum to me.

Regarding posts 873 and 1220, the interaction analysis on 873 entertains the idea of Lunar being scum in order to be exhaustive and to better support the point about Gamma being town. 1220 is similarly written out that way in order to be exhaustive. I was trying to find reasons based on interaction analysis that were stronger than just relying on "reads".

[Kazyan]

There's such a dissonance between you three. The only reason I'm asking you directly is to present my case as to why I'm town and nothing you've done makes sense. I don't know, I really do just think Lunar is town and that maybe that feeling I had on D3 was because RNGesus decided that 3 people who really knew each other happened to be scum together. It's the same argument I gave 2ndchosen, but if you guys were so attuned to one another through experience then why does it seem like the content between you three was so barren.

This argument about us not having content together is reaching. I can tell because you just remarked on how many times I mentioned Hayker over the course of this game.

[unwnd]

It was indeed lazy but it invokes a response from you and the others anyways

[Dannflor]

sigh

so lunar wants to vote Kazyan and 2nd wants to vote unwnd

[Dannflor]

I got a Bulletproof Townie eliminated

Did you really? You were voting Hayker at the end of day 1

Are we sure these second night kills come from a vigilante rather than a serial killer?

also Kazyan I feel like I need an explanation on this

[Dannflor]

Would love to yeet within {Hayker/NPOM/LM} today.

No desire to yeet within {PZ/GE/Alch/Elements} today.

{PP/Kazyan/Swims/Chosen} don't feel like flips where they'd give enough information as currently constructed, but there is likely some scumbag in there.

VOTE: Hayker

hmmm I mean it would certainly explain why AGar was night killed if he perfectly nailed the scum team day 1

[Dannflor]

Papa Zito also thought unwnd/lunar were scum (or at least not town read) and he was another night kill

[Kazyan]

I got a Bulletproof Townie eliminated

Did you really? You were voting Hayker at the end of day 1

Are we sure these second night kills come from a vigilante rather than a serial killer?

also Kazyan I feel like I need an explanation on this

I'm the one who started the argument with Alchemist, so I feel like it was my responsibility.

The explanation is "they're still looking for me; better play dumb to throw off their trail." I came around to the idea of breadcrumbing later.