Mini 659: The Neighborhood- Game over on Day 6

[gorckat]

Vote Count

Lowell (6):

Rashiminos, Oman, TonyMontana, crywolf, bionic,Tommy

Darox (3):

iamausername,Ythill, fhqwhgads

Rashiminos:

Lowell

Not voting (2):

Elias, Darox

@bionic: Your first EBWOP was good- I understood the intent there and don't require unvotes, just the ##

[Elias_the_thief]

Username, you have yet to take a solid stance on Lowell I believe. DO you find him scummy? Do you think he is a good lynch in terms of info?

[fhqwhgads]

I'm back. Was away for the weekend. Sorry, mod.

Now that you are back, ready to claim yet?

[fhqwhgads]

Maybe I should make my statement more clear.

Claim or Die!

(Darox: To clarify, I'm willing to drop the hammer if he doesn't respond or his response isn't to my liking.)

[Darox]

Still not the same thing as calling for a hammer. You are giving him time to breathe and explain himself.

[Oman]

My I ask what was so "scummy" about that last post.

I said it, you seem to be looking for somewhere you can stick.

Also, if he is alive when night comes, a cop (if we have one) would likely investigate him.

Why is this a bad thing?

Cause no cop can defend him without outing himself.

Still not the same thing as calling for a hammer. You are giving him time to breathe and explain himself.

Wait.... Do you think this is good or bad?

[Darox]

I wasn't really taking a side there, just stating that the two are in fact different, in spite of what some people here seem to believe.

I do however think that Lowell should be given time to explain himself. Lynching him now based on his current actions would be a bad idea and ultimately would leave us stranded in D2.

[Oman]

You're wrong on your reasons, but the answer is right.

[bionicchop2]

How many people are going to believe any claim at this point?

[Lowell]

No one hammer. Hold on.

[Lowell]

A quick rundown lest I don't get a chance to do anything this game:

5- iamausername claims miller
17- ythill calls claim irresponsible
18- Lowell loves claim
26- crywolf says "cop has reason to look at " [weak]
29- elias believes claim
34- darox will treat user as "someone who hasn't claimed" [very weak]
35- user finishes claim: piano teacher
46- tony has meandering post about claim, says "we should decide for ourselves" [uh, okay]
47- Lowell explains why miller is believable, votes tony
50- crywolf agrees w/ lowell, puts FOS on tony [strange, why no 3rd vote?]
53- elias believes claim
65- crywolf switches sides, now in curious about Lowell [odd]
66- good post from ythill
68- tommy jumps in on tony's side againts Lowell
83- user votes crywolf
85- a idiotic series of consonants votes Lowell
87- tony votes lowell
88- bionic votes crywolf
95- very odd post by consonants. unvotes lowell. Is he coaching me? [strange]
109- elias votes lowell
124- crywolf leads w/ 4 votes, Lowell has 2
125- tommy votes lowell
129- darox votes lowell
131- rash votes lowell
132- crywolf votes lowell, 6th vote
139- elias unvotes, worries about lowell wagon
140- lowell refuses to claim
163- lowell leads w/ 5 votes (tony, tommy, darox, rash, crywolf)
171- darox wants to "break" lowell's habit of badposting. [get in line]
177- user votes darox
178- darox accuses lowell of fishing for roleclaims [wow. wrong]
183- oman votes lowell
190- tony unvotes, wants lowell to claim [why unvote to do that??]
195- crywolf unvotes
196- tony revotes lowell
208- user attacks darox for word choices [good]
211- tommy sides w/ darox
237- darox unvotes
238- yhtill votes darox
243- oman sides w/ darox
253- consonants vote lowell, 5th vote
265- crywolf votes lowell, calls herself a hammerphobe [good]
273- tommy unvotes, wants to relook at crywolf [good post]
274- consonants continues argument w/ darox [getting a little chippy!]
277- lowell leads w/ 5 votes (rash, oman, tony, consonants, crywolf)
281- elias promises to "look at people on day 2" [slightly strange]
283- bionic makes interesting case against elias [good]
285- bionic prefers crywolf lynch to lowell
294- user asks good questions of darox
301- consonants votes darox [good]
306- oman says "anyone but darox"
316- bionic votes lowell
322- tommy votes lowell (lynch - 1)
328- consonants "demands" claim [odd]

Some individual thoughts:

bionic

- I believe he's

town

, his turn in 316 notwithstanding. I was impressed by his case against elias in 301, but I believe he didn't take it far enough.

crywolf

- I'd have said 100% scum were it not for post 265. There's something endearingly newbish to it, and it's a post I don't think scum would come out and say. I'll put her as

town

, and look more carefully at those propping her up from both sides.

darox

- There is a good case to be made here, but oman's insistence that darox is innocent makes me think twice. The fact that he sometimes fears hammers and sometimes doesn't, however, makes me worry. Unknown for now, but I'm leaning

scum

for a lot of horrible misrepresentations (Lowell fishing for claims of OTHERS??? Really?)

elias

- THIS was the one that jumped out at me on reread. I read 281 several times and it still reads strange. Though I didnt' have much of an opinion of him before that, the certainty that he "will look at them tomorrow" is a very odd town post. As town, I'm not so much scared that I'll die, but I AM scared that I'll die before I get a chance to get my two cents out there. Elias does not seem to fear this. combine this with his earlier hesitation to get too deeply involved in the case against me, and the fact that he TWICE came out and said he believes the username claim (but in equivocal language) and it all adds up to

##unvote, ##vote elias

consonants

- I can do without this guy, frankly. I would call him scum but for the extended interchange with darox about darox's strange behavior. Aside from that he's been relatively useless. No good read on him yet.

iamausername

- miller,

town

, I'm almost 100% sure. No reason to change my mind. In addition, he's led a lot of the more cogent attacks against most players.

rash

- I had an early scum read on him, but I'm changing my mind. Of the votes against me, his is by far the least retarded. I'll call him

town

.

tommy

- This is a strange one. Tommy is, in some ways, perhaps the most responsible for driving the weakass wagon before us. He's taken a few sides he shouldn't have (tony and crywolf), but on the other hand has made a few key unvotes that (had he just been going for the quicklynch of me) he wouldn't have. In particular, 273 is a post I don't believe scum would have made.

town

tonymontana

-

scum

. I still think post 46 is strange. PARTICULARLY when combined with his more bellicose tone in 190 and 196. In the latter two he seems to put a lot of stock in the power of claiming, yet the crux of our original argument that garnered his vote is that I was swayed by a claim when he thought I should have been more cautious. The timing of his unvote and revote don't help him either.

oman

- for some reason I get strong

town

vibes from him. He's defending a very unpopular position at the moment (darox = not scum) and doing so with gusto. Points for that.

yhtill

- this guy is dangerous. He has a lot of good posts and people tend to believe what he says. I believe that he's

town

, but I'm not married to it yet.

A few other things:

There is a slight link between tony and crywolf in the 50s and 60s. She says she agrees with my reasoning for voting tony, but only FOSs herself (despite him having only 2 votes). Almost immediately she changes her mind, agrees wholeheartedly with tony's side, and attacks me. This looks a LOT like buddying on crywolf's part, and I don't like that tony is just letting it happen.

The nature of the darox/consonants argument throughout the latter pages of this game makes me think we could be dealing with a couple of pro-town players.

I'm not super-thrilled with all the backhanded compliments from those who say I'm not scum because I "always play this way." I don't believe my behavior is scummy AT ALL, and those not voting me just for meta-reasons look like people who are trying to set themselves up to vote for me later.

[gorckat]

Vote Count

Lowell (6):

Rashiminos, Oman, TonyMontana, crywolf, bionic,Tommy

Darox (3):

iamausername,Ythill, fhqwhgads

Elias:

Lowell

Not voting (2):

Elias, Darox


**Rashiminos has been prodded**

Rules update:

2. Activity

*If you see a player has not posted in thread for 72 hours and I have not announced a prod, please PM me. All prods are stated publicly.

[bionicchop2]

##unvote Lowell

That lengthy post reminded me of the last game we were in together (mini 614 - maybe the only game we were in together), so I decided to check games which you came up as scum. In Pantsville (I just skimmed), you were serial killer and never went into the extent you just did. Those come across as notes you have been compiling throughout the game and not just thrown together right now.

[iamausername]

Username, you have yet to take a solid stance on Lowell I believe. DO you find him scummy?

I think Lowell is probably town, because meta leads me to believe that most of the scumtells people are attributing him are null tells in his case, and I cannot believe that a wagon would form as fast as his did without some opportunistic scum in there. Now, it's possible that he's being bussed, but I think that's considerably less likely than him being town run up by scum.

Is this solid enough for you?

Do you think he is a good lynch in terms of info?

I think a Darox lynch will give us just as much info at this point, and is considerably more likely to hit scum. I'll agree that no other lynch is looking particularly feasible at this point, and that a Lowell lynch is preferable to no lynch, for the information it will bring.

[Rashiminos]

Responding to the prod in thread.

I still feel it's Lowell that needs to be lynched today.

I'm getting a townie feeling from iamausername due to his openness in answering my questions, although I disagree with his argument.

Ythill and fhq are looking scummy to me. One for his lines of questioning, and the other for bizarre voting patterns.

More on this in an upcoming post (setting a mental deadline of Wednesday morning, which will be the best time for me).

[Rashiminos]

EBWOP: Unless someone saw a claim I didn't, HAMMER!© this guy.

[Elias_the_thief]

53- elias believes claim

Incorrect. I said I was undecided, that the flavor seemed plausible (but no where near enough to confirm the claim) and that User is ballsy enough to pull the claim as scum. Thats definately not saying I believe the User claim.

281- elias promises to "look at people on day 2" [slightly strange]

The argument that I should be afraid of getting my opinions out there is false. I'm by no means considered "townie town town", and I've lurked most of the game (sorry). To call me scum on this basis is ridiculous.

283- bionic makes interesting case against elias [good]

It wasnt a case, and I responded to it. Interesting that you leave that post out of your list, as well as bionicchops consequent post in which he accepts most of my responses.

bionic

- I believe he's

town

, his turn in 316 notwithstanding. I was impressed by his case against elias in 301, but I believe he didn't take it far enough.

It wasnt a case, and I refuted his points. Learn to read.

crywolf

- I'd have said 100% scum were it not for post 265. There's something endearingly newbish to it, and it's a post I don't think scum would come out and say. I'll put her as

town

, and look more carefully at those propping her up from both sides.

I believe she is exhibiting behavior that is characteristic of a newb, not necessarily of scum. So I agree.

darox

- There is a good case to be made here, but oman's insistence that darox is innocent makes me think twice. The fact that he sometimes fears hammers and sometimes doesn't, however, makes me worry. Unknown for now, but I'm leaning

scum

for a lot of horrible misrepresentations (Lowell fishing for claims of OTHERS??? Really?)

Eh...in all honesty I havent really looked much at the Darox case.

elias

- THIS was the one that jumped out at me on reread. I read 281 several times and it still reads strange. Though I didnt' have much of an opinion of him before that, the certainty that he "will look at them tomorrow" is a very odd town post. As town, I'm not so much scared that I'll die, but I AM scared that I'll die before I get a chance to get my two cents out there. Elias does not seem to fear this.

What you fear as town is not necessarily what I fear as town, and blabbing all your opinions day one is not necessarily a protown play. Scum can garner info from everything town says just as much as town garners from scum. I am not a serious risk for a nightkill in my opinion, as I've said before.

combine

this with his earlier hesitation to get too deeply involved in the case against me

, and the fact that

he TWICE came out and said he believes the username claim

(but in equivocal language) and it all adds up to

##unvote, ##vote elias

Huh?

Wrong.

consonants

- I can do without this guy, frankly. I would call him scum but for the extended interchange with darox about darox's strange behavior. Aside from that he's been relatively useless. No good read on him yet.

Agreed on the final sentiment.

iamausername

- miller,

town

, I'm almost 100% sure. No reason to change my mind. In addition, he's led a lot of the more cogent attacks against most players.

Booooooo.

rash

- I had an early scum read on him, but I'm changing my mind. Of the votes against me, his is by far the least retarded. I'll call him

town

.

Why the early scum read?

tommy

- This is a strange one. Tommy is, in some ways, perhaps the most responsible for driving the weakass wagon before us. He's taken a few sides he shouldn't have (tony and crywolf), but on the other hand has made a few key unvotes that (had he just been going for the quicklynch of me) he wouldn't have. In particular, 273 is a post I don't believe scum would have made.

town

I find it very interesting that my unvote from your wagon is "hesitation to get too deeply involved in the case against me", while tommy's is a key unvote that shows he wasn't going for the quicklynch. You do realize I could have lurked through your wagon and allowed you to be quicklynched right? Just checking, Mr. Hypocrisy.

tonymontana

-

scum

. I still think post 46 is strange. PARTICULARLY when combined with his more bellicose tone in 190 and 196. In the latter two he seems to put a lot of stock in the power of claiming, yet the crux of our original argument that garnered his vote is that I was swayed by a claim when he thought I should have been more cautious. The timing of his unvote and revote don't help him either.

Meh. A lot can change between post 46 and post 190. I dont think this is anything particularly damning.

oman

- for some reason I get strong

town

vibes from him. He's defending a very unpopular position at the moment (darox = not scum) and doing so with gusto. Points for that.

Agreed.

yhtill

- this guy is dangerous. He has a lot of good posts and people tend to believe what he says. I believe that he's

town

, but I'm not married to it yet.

wonderful.

There is a slight link between tony and crywolf in the 50s and 60s. She says she agrees with my reasoning for voting tony, but only FOSs herself (despite him having only 2 votes). Almost immediately she changes her mind, agrees wholeheartedly with tony's side, and attacks me. This looks a LOT like buddying on crywolf's part, and I don't like that tony is just letting it happen.

This is unnecessary confusion being added to the thread IMO. This is a very weak argument.

The nature of the darox/consonants argument throughout the latter pages of this game makes me think we could be dealing with a couple of pro-town players.

This comment is strangely worded.

I'm not super-thrilled with all the backhanded compliments from those who say I'm not scum because I "always play this way." I don't believe my behavior is scummy AT ALL, and those not voting me just for meta-reasons look like people who are trying to set themselves up to vote for me later.

You've been a lot less lurky then when we were scum together. But that was like a year and a half ago, and I dont really think it has much bearing on your play here, especially when its only a one game meta.

I'm fine with my vote. I'm fine with Lowell actually claiming. I'm fine with someone hammering if he refuses.

[Elias_the_thief]

*The argument that I should be afraid of NOT getting my opinions out there is false.

[fhqwhgads]

Hmm,

Probably the best post you've made all day. Unfortunately, one post does not make a day. Your absence during questioning (controlled or not) plus your brash attitude initially has you branded.

Also, while a good post, your argument on Elias feels like a reach. Like he pointed out, you've ignored a lot of what happened in between the posts you did point out. This might be due to the fact that you had to reread in a hurry. Also you comment on the fact that I ask a claim, but you still don't even consider it.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Lowell

My reasons being:

1) Deadline tomorrow, and you are the only one there is a mild agreement on.

2) You haven't really been the ideal townie up till now.

and

3) Someone (I forget) made the argument that we'll be stuck in lowell mode after day one if you are not lynched.

It's time to get more info and focus on some other people for a change (Darox, you're not off the hook yet).

[Oman]

We need a Hammer ASAP. He gave a bunch of crap, half of it not even true and didn't claim. Thats scum right there.

[fhqwhgads]

Ah,

Missed the bionicchop unvote. I thought I hammered.

[Darox]

The deadline rapidly approaching.
Deadline means no lynch.

This is bad.

And, as Oman said, his big post wasn't exactly enlightening and he still ignored requests for a claim.

Vote: Lowell

[Darox]

Of course there was always a

##Vote: Lowell

in there.

[Oman]

Well. I'm a lycnher, thankfully Lowell was my target.

Thanks guys, great game.

[Oman]

*PSTTTTTT NOT REALLY!*