Mini 644 - Meerkat Manor Mafia (Game Over!)

[Ectomancer]

Tired of the "there is no wall of text" arguement. This is the crap I had to go through from one visit to the next. It's a wall of text. Get over it if something was missed.

Rhinox
Mafia Scum





Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Location: Cleveland, OH


PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 8:52 am Post subject: 413 Reply with quote
I guess now would be a good time to express some general feelings on all of the players in the context of knowing muffin was scum. (and Vi was town)

===================================================

@Ecto, I would like you to paraphrase the following posts for me into what exactly your official stance on muffin was... I don't know what it is exactly, and maybe I'm not understanding correctly, but something doesn't seem quite right with your postings after muffin's claim.

ecto wrote:
Cass wrote:

Won't you feel stupid if you hammer and he turns out to be a cop? (For example, obv.) For that reason, I do ask you to wait until Muffin has been online at least (or gets replaced).

muffin wrote:

last night I targetted cass and got an innocent. But im not coming to any coclusions till I know that im sane.

Talk about this coincidence Muffinhead.

Here I get the feeling you're not buying muffin's claim because its too much of a coincidence.

ecto wrote:
Yosarian was indeed troubled, but he always did what he thought best for town. I would consider him 'paranpoid', even when he turned out wrong.

Here I think you're saying that "yosarian, the meerkat" was paranoid, although he always did what he thought was best for the whiskers. We know muffin was not a paranoid cop because he gave us an innocent result, so I think you're saying yosarian/muffin =/= cop.

ecto wrote:
I've argued before that the claimed cop should be lynched to save grief later.
I was scum that game.
I dont like the Yosarian/Cop pairing.

Here I think you're saying one of two things: either you want to get rid of muffin to save grief for later but you don't want us to think you're scum because thats what you did once when you were scum - or - you're saying that you think its scummy to want to get rid of muffin to save grief, even though you don't think it makes sense for yosarian to be a cop.

ecto wrote:
Never watched the show?Yosarian as cop makes no sense. Im not really believing the claim.

Here you explicitly state that you don't think the yosarian/cop pairing makes sense from a flavor standpoint, and you don't believe muffin's claim.

Now things start to get very interesting...
ecto wrote:
Im a sucker for flavor. Yosarian has strong ties to the whiskers. he could be a cop. leave him be.

With no explanation as to why, you've gone from "yosarian as a cop makes no sense" to "yosarian could be a cop" all based on flavor. why the flip flop? And you explicitly tell us to not lynch muffin.

ecto wrote:
I always liked Yosarian, and I believe that there is a situation whereby a scum cop must always tell the truth. I just have to remember what it is.

Now you're presenting as a reason to leave muffin alive that "you've always liked Yosarian". Also, you think that muffin might be a scum cop that must tell the truth. I don't see how this make any sense at all. Firstly, a scum cop is only good to find out the predators - it doesn't take a scum cop to tell us that a townie is a townie. Any scum could do that. Secondly, how do you force a scum cop to always tell us honest results? A scum cop isn't going to investigate another scum, so a scum cop would never be forced to tell us who scum are. If a scum cop tells us who is a confirmed townie, how do we actually confirm that without knowing that the supposed scum cop is not only a scum, but a scum cop, but a scum cop who must tell us accurate results? And Thirdly, if a townie is still a townie, no matter how worthless, a scum is still a scum and I see no reason to leave alive a scum cop even if he must tell us his investigation results. So I don't get what the point of this post was, other than to cause confusion.

ecto wrote:
Hmm, what has been termed a terrible defense on my part is in actuality my display of the weakness of the case. Do not attack others for your failures, rather modify them, or own up to them.

What exactly does this post mean? Because what I'm reading is that you're inability to provide a good reason to not lynch muffin somehow proves that muffin's case was weak - And that does not make any sense at all. Also, what point does the last sentence have in existing? What failure are you referring to? Five of us saw something in muffin that you refused to believe - that muffin was scum. With the possibility that muffin got bussed aside, you were very intent on stopping the lynch on muffin, even thought you didn't believe his claim.

So what I'm getting at is no matter how many times I read through these posts, I see you on both sides of the muffin fence, all while posting little content at all. First, you think muffin's case is weak. Then, you don't believe his claim. Then, you possibly do believe his claim that he might be cop. Then, you introduce some sort of scum-cop confusion where a scum cop is secretely useful for the town to keep around. Then you go back to claiming again how the case on muffin is a weak case.

So, unless I misunderstood, something seems very off with this line of posting of yours. Please, tell me if I've taken a wrong interpretation somewhere along the way, and if not, what message exactly were you trying to get across with all of these posts? Because I can't think of anything that makes sense from a "ecto is town" pre-assumption.

addendum #1 to include a comment based on the night kill:
Vi wrote:
Considering that Ectomancer was the leader of the "let's not lynch muffinhead" voice and has done such a poor job of defending him, I believe I have a more compelling reason to see muffinhead lynched now than sheer utility. If he flips scum, then Ectomancer has painted a giant target on himself.


So ecto, if you're scum, you knew Vi would be coming straight after you once muffin was shown to be scum. Also, you spent a good part of yesterday arguing the weak case supporting a possible scum pairing of Vi/Bogre and muffin. That means, you would be hypocritical to attempt to get Vi lynched. So, Vi was a big threat, with little possibility of getting lynched. Things that make you go hmmmmm... I won't try to hang you yet thought because there is a possibility you're being framed.

===================================================

@cass: I'm wondering if muffin had the balls to tell us his scum partner is innocent, or if he just picked a "townie" to say was innocent. I guess there is really no way to know for sure. Townie is in quotes because we still don't know if we are down to only scum and town - there might still be a predator left.

===================================================

@(the ghost of) Vi:
I had a section here prepared for you as well. The abridged version (since you're dead) is that ckd thought you might want to be on muffin's wagon, but were afraid to hammer. I was thinking that the only way you would be afraid to hammer is if you either knew muffin was town (making you scum), or if you were townie and you thought there was a chance muffin was being honest. Since muffin was scum, if you were planning on bussing him it wouldn't have mattered really if you were a hammer vote or not, but if you were afraid to hammer, that supports that you were a townie concerned about the ramifications of hammering a claimed cop.

===================================================

@ckd: You were right about clock being an evil faction, and despite disagreements about the "to be honest" tell, you were 100% dead on right about muffin from the start. That was either a very impressive case of bussing, or you're just very good at catching scum. I'm going with the latter, at least until/unless anything comes up to change my mind.

===================================================

@wolf and coug: I lost a bit of a read on both of you throughout the day, but you were both on muffin's lynch early and hard, and I would like to think that is too early for a scum to be bussing their partner (unless it was a pre-planned gambit, but thats unlikely). I have no reason to believe either of you to be scum right now, but I'm not ready to completely ride either of you off as town either. For now, I consider both of you relatively safe.

===================================================

@jonathan: You've been generally unhelpful in that most of your comments are in defense of yourself - you don't really bring anything new into conversations. Even though you didn't vote for muffin, I got the feeling you wanted to, but were afraid of the consequences of hammering if muffin WAS a cop. Much like with Vi, I don't think that is consistent with a scum bussing a scum partner. The difference from Vi is that you didn't vote at all, so your threat to hammer might have been nothing more than just an empty threat, and you really had no intent of hammering because he was your scum partner. I'm still quite nervous about your role.

===================================================

To summarize, it was speculated a little while back that in a game of 12, a scum group of 2 (maybe 3) and 1 sk was enough evil factions unless the town had many power roles. If this is the case, then we only have to find 1 (or maybe 2) scum in order to win. Looking back at all the players in context of the muffin lynch (and now Vi's death), I think ecto makes a good candidate for who that scum might be. There are others who wouldn't suprise me if they were scum, but I think its pretty obvious that we need to look very closely at ecto today to attempt to derive whether he could be scum, or if he simply made himself too good of a target to frame.
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Cass
Mafia Scum





Gender: Gender:Female
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: The fourth dimension


PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:06 am Post subject: 414 Reply with quote
I think Muffin either picked a random townie to declare innocent, or he went off my post that expressed lynching cops is bad, and it was a buddying attempt.

I am much looking forward to ecto's response to your accusations - the interaction between him and muffin was indeed interesting.

I think, though this is purely intuition, that there are two more scum. Either two more commandoes, or one commando and one predator. So, one possibility is that Ecto is a commando and Jonathan a predator. (Although in that case, the low amount of kills is puzzling.)

Vi "the babysitter" - sounds like a protective power role to me. Could he have been a doc, perhaps? Or, if we take the flavor very literally, a bodyguard? Then, besides self-defense and framing, an alternative reason for the NK might have been misdirection (Vi protected whoever was targeted).
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Rhinox
Mafia Scum





Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Location: Cleveland, OH


PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:10 am Post subject: 415 Reply with quote
cass wrote:

Vi "the babysitter" - sounds like a protective power role to me. Could he have been a doc, perhaps? Or, if we take the flavor very literally, a bodyguard? Then, besides self-defense and framing, an alternative reason for the NK might have been misdirection (Vi protected whoever was targeted).


oooh... very good point. Actually, the bodyguard thing makes a lot of sense. I didn't even think of that. Scratch the addendum part out of my previous post, because its possible that Vi wasn't even the target last night. That doesn't even remotely let ecto off the hook though.

Regarding Vi being a possible bodyguard, its possible he didn't even know he was a bodyguard. Going off the flavor, I could imagine Vi's role to be babysitter for the pups, takes the fall if a whisker pup is targeted. Otherwise, he would have to know who the pups were and guess properly which one to protect each night.

As far as remaining scum go, my cute little meerkat body is still very afraid there may be a predator lurking out there somewhere, but at this point, that only makes sense if the predators aren't forced to kill. (assuming predators are sk's, sk's are usually forced to make all of their kills, right?)
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wolframnhart
Mafia Scum





Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Location: California


PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: 416 Reply with quote
I'm beginning to be more inclined to think Jon is Muffins partner. Reason being I think that Muffin claiming Cop and saying Cass was innocent is true (the Cass part). More then likely this is Muffin trying to get Cass on his side (which worked for Cass did unvote) but it seems more like Muffin trying to get a lynch set up for today if he did end up getting lynched (which he did). The reason I say this is because Jon wouldn't touch the Muffinwagon. Maybe he did believe Muffin was cop, but, Jon got on Bogre's wagon and then when attention turned to Muffin he wouldn't touch it. Gave a few empty threats of a vote, but all in all he wouldn't go near Muffin. So Muffin claiming Cass innocent seems more like he was trying to get a "easy" lynch for Jon to get on today.
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StrangerCoug
Mafia Scum





Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 06 May 2008
Location: El Paso, TX


PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: 417 Reply with quote
Vote: Ectomancer for defending muffinhead solely on flavor. I don't have time for a good read right now (class is in five minutes), but that's my number one suspect going into today.
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STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!

Due to college, access is somewhat limited on Tuesdays and Thursdays in the daytime although I have access to a computer at school.
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Rhinox
Mafia Scum





Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Location: Cleveland, OH


PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: 418 Reply with quote
wolframnhart wrote:
I'm beginning to be more inclined to think Jon is Muffins partner. Reason being I think that Muffin claiming Cop and saying Cass was innocent is true (the Cass part). More then likely this is Muffin trying to get Cass on his side (which worked for Cass did unvote) but it seems more like Muffin trying to get a lynch set up for today if he did end up getting lynched (which he did). The reason I say this is because Jon wouldn't touch the Muffinwagon. Maybe he did believe Muffin was cop, but, Jon got on Bogre's wagon and then when attention turned to Muffin he wouldn't touch it. Gave a few empty threats of a vote, but all in all he wouldn't go near Muffin. So Muffin claiming Cass innocent seems more like he was trying to get a "easy" lynch for Jon to get on today.

So if I follow you, you're saying that muffin claimed Cass innocent so that if muffin got lynched and was revealed as scum, jonathan would have an easy target to go after in Cass? I'm not sure I buy that, because I don't think anyone sees Cass as a valid target only because a scum fake-claimed cop with an innocent on her - which means if jonathan tried to make that case, no one would go with it. Also, if this was the plan, why cass? I think it would have been 'better' to set up an innocent on Vi, since there was already the possible bogre/muffin connection (that we only now know was wrong). However, almost any other player would have also fit in the 'innocent result' spot in this plan, so I think there must have been a different reason to say Cass was innocent. I think the probable answer is that Cass thought it would be bad if we lynched a cop, so muffin claimed cop with an added benefit that cass was innocent to try to really buddy up to cass.

The bastardly move would be if cass is secretly in muffin's scum group, and made the "wouldn't you feel stupid if muffin was a cop" comment to set up muffin's fake claim, and muffin said Cass was innocent so if muffin was lynched, we would think that he was just trying to buddy up to townie cass (who is secretely scum).

Now, I'm not trying to say jonathan is not/can not be the scum because of this, I just don't think this is very good evidence to prove that he is. Assuming Cass is town, she might be onto something with the ecto-scum, jonathan-sk idea if there were a logical reason to explain the lack of sk kills. Maybe its possible ecto and jonathan are both commando scum? I do think an interesting point you brought up is that jonathan voted bogre, but didn't vote muffin. That might be saying something.

coug wrote:
Vote: Ectomancer for defending muffinhead solely on flavor. I don't have time for a good read right now (class is in five minutes), but that's my number one suspect going into today.

I think maybe you might take a little bit of heat for doing this so rashly. Firstly, ecto didn't defend muffin solely on flavor. Ecto started defending muffin after Vi replaced in well before muffin even claimed (that is, if you consider calling the case against muffin weak as defending muffin). And secondly, if I humor the idea that Vi was killed directly in an attempt to further frame ecto, your quick vote here could be interpreted as trying to opportunisticly start that bandwagon, especially since you didn't take the time to properly justify your vote.
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curiouskarmadog
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Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Location: Roanoke, Va


PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: 419 Reply with quote
Nice 2 for 2 for this game.

ok, going to post when I have a moment...getting close to the "big date" for me....and my future mother-in-law is coming in today..will try to post a response to the events of yesterday and today (thus far)....

it is hard for me to swallow that ecto was so blatantly defending muffin if they were partners...I need to see the timing of when the "defense" began...I think Ecto would say that it wasnt a defense as it was an attacking on the "weak" case against muffin...but I for one, dont think the case was weak...anyway, I need to review the timing of it all.

I have not liked Coug for some time. Also need to see when he jumped on and off things yesterday..his vote today, seems hasty especailly given that Ecto has not posted yet today and Coug states that he hasnt given this game a "good reread".

also jon has not really committed to anything....this is sending off huge alarms.
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StrangerCoug
Mafia Scum





Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 06 May 2008
Location: El Paso, TX


PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: 420 Reply with quote
Rhinox wrote:
coug wrote:
Vote: Ectomancer for defending muffinhead solely on flavor. I don't have time for a good read right now (class is in five minutes), but that's my number one suspect going into today.

I think maybe you might take a little bit of heat for doing this so rashly. Firstly, ecto didn't defend muffin solely on flavor. Ecto started defending muffin after Vi replaced in well before muffin even claimed (that is, if you consider calling the case against muffin weak as defending muffin). And secondly, if I humor the idea that Vi was killed directly in an attempt to further frame ecto, your quick vote here could be interpreted as trying to opportunisticly start that bandwagon, especially since you didn't take the time to properly justify your vote.


As I said, I had class in five minutes. That is not enough time to give a detailed case on somebody, but that is enough time to become suspicious about somebody for something. I have a life, you know.
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wolframnhart
Mafia Scum





Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Location: California


PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: 421 Reply with quote
jonathantan86 wrote:
Yes I'm not committing myself---my reasons for putting this vote is similar to those who have put the vote on me in Day 1. The second statement is true, but I don't see what's wrong with that. Also, I'm not helping a bandwagon---the bandwagon is on muffinhead, not bogre.


Ok so here Jon admits not commiting himself but also admits that he is not "helping a bandwagon" then says the bandwagon is on Muffinhead, not Bogre. So he is fine with voting the bandwagon against Bogre, but not muffinhead? That pinged my scumdar when I re read his posts.

jonathantan86 wrote:
Unvote

Vi wrote:
*jonathantan86 needs to explain why he only posts every two-to-five days. I really don't like it, considering he misses so much. Plus--
jon 69 wrote:
Besides I don't think that we would lynch someone without discussion. Town wouldn't put the vote count so close to 7, and scum (supposing SC is town) wouldn't want to do that either because it may make them look scummy.

FOS: StrangerCoug

Having said that, I think some mafia are on the wagon. Not because they want to see SC lynched, but because it may make them look good if SC dies and turns out to be part of the mafia.
This in particular bothers me. You're banking that StrangerCoug is scum in order to look for other scum bussing him in this post.


I gave my reasons for thinking that SC might be scum (basically hitting at those who had been voting for him, even though there's no threat), and then extrapolating from there what might be the case.

I don't post that regularly because I'm quite busy at the moment, but I will try to do so now.

vi wrote:

jon 331 wrote:
Yes I'm not committing myself---my reasons for putting this vote is similar to those who have put the vote on me in Day 1. The second statement is true, but I don't see what's wrong with that. Also, I'm not helping a bandwagon---the bandwagon is on muffinhead, not bogre.
I'm not sure you realize what you're saying. By not committing to a vote and position on who you want lynched, you're never taking a stand, but willing to do whatever won't get you in trouble. Being able to vote people and cast suspicion on them without being held responsible is the kind of ability scum players dream of. And it seems to me that there's a double-bandwagon going on - one dominant one on muffinhead, and one on Bogre/me, the alleged scumpartner.
And rest assured, at the moment Bogre needs no more pressure votes.

Make a choice. Who do you think is most worthy of a lynch right now? Vote them. If you decide someone else is more worthy of a lynch, tell why.


I think muffinhead is, but I'll wait for him to claim.

You (vi/bogre) come second, but that's only because of bogre's previous actions (and to a lesser extent muffinhead defending him). I was hoping he could defend his statements, but that's kind of impossible now.


jonathantan86 wrote:
Vi wrote:
jon 69 wrote:
FOS: StrangerCoug

Having said that, I think some mafia are on the wagon. Not because they want to see SC lynched, but because it may make them look good if SC dies and turns out to be part of the mafia.
Red flag: You're effectively assuming StrangerCoug is scum (for reasons you've already mentioned) and saying there are already other scum on the wagon to bus him. Certainly not the conventional argument.
Red flag: Yet you only FoS StrangerCoug... is this perhaps to ensure you're not on the wagon? Or are you hinting that you have a scumbuddy on the wagon?
I don't know what to say about this other than that it feels very wrong.
(BTW, the wagon at this point is MafiaMann, Cass, Ectomancer, and Rhinox.)

I FoS because I wasn't quite sure. About hinting that I have a scumbuddy on the wagon, if that were true (and if I were scum) I wouldn't have wanted to draw attention to that; I could have just put suspicion on SC.

About asking what discussion is currently revolving around, I did post what I thought after that.

Vi wrote:
jon 357 wrote:
I think muffinhead is [most worthy of a vote], but I'll wait for him to claim.
I should have asked earlier: Why do you think that?

Reasons: a spurious vote on Ectomancer and his "ignorance" of the case on bogre, and now his lurking (well, he has just come back to post).


Now here on the two Vi vs Jon posts we can see that Jon was becoming very suspicious in Vi's eyes, and was being called on it. Then Vi ends up dead. This may not seem like much, but when scum A gets lynched, and playerB who won't go near his bandwagon is being looked at hard by playerC, and then C ends up dead at night just seems too much like B getting rid of C to quiet C down. That was what I was trying to say earlier Rhinox, bu when your fiance is nagging your ear as you try to type you tend to hurry LoL. Anyways back on topic..

Vi's role could have been a power protective role, I don't know I didn't make this game. I would have hoped hat if it was a protective role something like "human shield" or "bus driver" would have been in quotes. babysitter just doesn't scream protective to me, probably was just flavor I don't know the show so i don't know if thats what Vi's char was or not. If she was protecting someone and ended up dead from it then that blows the second portion of my case against Jon out the window, but I still think the first part of my case holds true.

I'm willing to Fos Jon until he can defend against my case, and give good reason why he wouldn't go near the muffinhead wagon, but would jump on Bogre's.
_________________
Muerrto: Well, if you're scum Wolf, you don't need any lessons in sounding sincere.

@Rhinox - Deny it, but you are addled and allowing it to affect your judgement. Part of the problem is you are arguing alongside scum, which makes you feel like your statements are more valid. They aren't.

[Ectomancer]

The wall of text continues:

Rhinox
Mafia Scum





Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Location: Cleveland, OH


PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: 425 Reply with quote
coug wrote:

As I said, I had class in five minutes. That is not enough time to give a detailed case on somebody, but that is enough time to become suspicious about somebody for something. I have a life, you know.


Easy there killer, I'm not questioning your other commitments. I'm saying there is a difference between expressing suspisions on someone vs. voting for someone (which may or may not be trying to start a bandwagon). IMO, at the start of the day, in your first post, if you want to vote for someone, you better back it up. The reason you gave was wrong. If you had class, what would be wrong with simply waiting until class was over to make a full post?

Also, you had time to respond to my post, yet you still haven't properly justified you vote on ecto. I know what I think about ecto right now, but I want to hear from you why you think he deserved your vote. And I don't care if you have to wait until after class to make that post. Take your time Wink We all have lives, you know.

Addendum after reread of coug's posts: This is a gem of a quote if I ever found one...
coug wrote:
Failure to explain your vote = opportunistic vote. Opportunistic vote = scummy. Scummy actions = vote on you. Therefore, failure to explain your vote = vote on you.

So everybody but you has to explain their votes?

Oh look, here's some more:
coug wrote:
For a vote not to be opportunistic in my eyes, I need the reasons or where I can get them in front of my nose when I see the vote. It's me.


Now, don't get me wrong. As I'll explain later in this post, I don't think you're commando. Predator possibly, but there's no way to tell if there is even a predator remaining right now. What I think is that it is your personallity that is slightly abrasive and just comes off scummy, and possibly sometimes you don't think before you say stuff (like with your vote today on ecto, even though it directly conflicts with your already expressed definition of an opportunistic vote). But I do agree with you... ecto is looking more and more like a good scum candidate today.

=====================================================

@ecto: In my last post I asked you to clarify what your feelings towards muffin were exactly. Maybe it was lost in translation (I do tend to ramble sometimes). All I know is at one point you explicty said you didn't believe muffin's claim, and at another point you explicitly exclaimed "he might be a cop, let him be". Is that because you thought he was scum so you knew he could be lynched later, as you seem to imply in your last post? Also...
ecto wrote:
The one situation where you miight leave a claimed cop alive is if you know they are the final scum. You can believe every innocent the give, and if they give scum and you lynch town (except in LYLO), we win.

I disagree. How do you know the scum won't claim their scum partner(s) are innocent? Yes, if you know he's the final scum, then you know everyone else is pro-town, but if you know he's the final scum, then dare I say we would just lynch him?

Unless you're talking about when you already know there is only one scum remaining and you have a cop claim. Then sure, I could see a benefit in leaving the claimed cop alive for a while unless I truly thought he was the lying scum. However, this was definately not the case with muffin, and hence not a valid reason for leaving muffin alive.

Also, compare these 3 scenarios:
1:
ecto wrote:
StrangerCoug deserves votes piled on him for that self-vote. It's not helpful and this pressure might make him think twice before doing it again. He's not going to get quicklynched by town, and if scum piles on, Huzzah! We got one or two for tomorrow...
I still say we string him up. Somebody's gotta die today, we might as well do the volunteer

2:
ecto wrote:
If we assume Clock was a day SK, he had no idea of MM's alignment. You see, I was going to go back to my case against SC, because I moved off of it due to Clock's case against MM being a better one (IMO). SC's case is still pretty good.

However.

If I'm an SK, I scum hunt. I need them dead, the sooner, the better.

To me, that means that Clock's case isn't trash to be tossed aside. I think it was an honest one.

With that assessment:

vote MafiaMann

I think the case was a good one, and though the information gained may be too WIFOMish to use, I would still like to know whether Clock was right.

3:
Quote:
ecto wrote:
Cass wrote:

Won't you feel stupid if you hammer and he turns out to be a cop? (For example, obv.) For that reason, I do ask you to wait until Muffin has been online at least (or gets replaced).

muffin wrote:

last night I targetted cass and got an innocent. But im not coming to any coclusions till I know that im sane.

Talk about this coincidence Muffinhead.
ecto wrote:
Yosarian was indeed troubled, but he always did what he thought best for town. I would consider him 'paranpoid', even when he turned out wrong.
ecto wrote:
I've argued before that the claimed cop should be lynched to save grief later.
I was scum that game.
I dont like the Yosarian/Cop pairing.
ecto wrote:
Never watched the show?Yosarian as cop makes no sense. Im not really believing the claim.
ecto wrote:
Im a sucker for flavor. Yosarian has strong ties to the whiskers. he could be a cop. leave him be.
ecto wrote:
I always liked Yosarian, and I believe that there is a situation whereby a scum cop must always tell the truth. I just have to remember what it is.

ecto wrote:
Hmm, what has been termed a terrible defense on my part is in actuality my display of the weakness of the case. Do not attack others for your failures, rather modify them, or own up to them.


In case 1, you wanted to lynch coug due to his self voting, because somebody had to die. This was a weaker reason than for lynching muffin.

In case 2, you voted to lynch MM based on the fact that clock would be legitamately scum hunting because he was an sk. The kicker is, you did this even though you 100% believed MM's claim. You said so, and used that fact to attack clock for searching for extra flavor on a townie claim. Another interesting point is that if you and clock were competing sk's, or in different scum factions, then you have just as much of a reason to try to get rid of him as he does to legitimately scum hunt. That would explain why you decided to "believe" MM's claim and attack clock - you saw a scum tell, but knew clock wasn't in your group, so you wanted to get rid of him. Then, after clock was dead, you still saw an opportunity to lynch MM even though you believed his claim.

Case 3 is obviously the muffin lynch. You argued that the case on muffin was weak, but after muffin claimed you didn't believe him. When it looked like no one was backing off, you changed and said he could be a cop and went back to claiming that the case on him was weak.

You're right, whether or not you defended muffin as your scum partner IS WIFOM, but that doesn't mean that gives you a free pass to do it without it being a legit possibility. But actually, whats more telling is that I found 2 examples of you endorsing a lynch based on weaker evidence than that on muffin, and 1 example of you endorsing a lynch of a player after a townie claim you believed. With muffin, there was a stronger case than either of the cases on coug on D1 or MM before his lynch, and muffin made a claim you did NOT believe, and yet this time, you were against the lynch. This is directly conflicting with your established play style in this game, and this is why I think you have a lot to answer for today.

======================================================

Regarding the potential bussing of muffin by at least 1 scum, I'm not sure I would definatively say there was so much momentum that a scum couldn't resist joining in. I just finished up a newbie game (I was scum) and my crappy IC scum partner basically suicided D1 because he played so badly. I never voted for him, and I went on to win the game as the sole remaining scum. So just because there is tremendous momentum on a scum lynch, that does not mean 100% that a scum partner is bussing.

However, that does not mean 100% that a scum partner is not bussing, either. That means, you're claiming that possibly at least 1 of me, coug, wolf, and ckd bussed muffin (we know it wasn't Vi). Obviously I know I didn't bus muffin. Both of wolf and coug were on muffin's wagon hard and early. After rereading, both wolf and coug were helpful in starting the momentum on muffin, not jumping on after the momentum started. So I don't think either of them were bussing (but they could be sk-predators) And CKD, its possible he bussed muffin, but he's been the best at finding scum this game. He outed clock, and he was also on muffin early for the honesty thing. Actually, all 4 of us reacted to muffin basically the same way at basically the same time. I don't think the play of wolf, coug, or CKD (or myself) even leaves open the possibility that one of them (us) were muffin's scum partner and bussed him, unless it was planned the night before.

So by process of elimination, I'm pretty confident the remaining commando(s) are in a group including ectomancer, jonathan, and cass, be it either 1 or 2 commandos remaining. If there is an SK that is simply not killing, then it really could be anybody, because like the town, they would be trying to eliminate the commandos as quickly as possible, but so they could step in and finish off the town after the commandos were gone. Although, in this game, I'm not sure that strategy would work for an sk. Rishi gave us flavor this morning that specifically the commandos came to make the kill on Vi. Presumedly, then, its either bastard modery, or if/when a predator makes a kill, it won't say it was done by the commandos. That means, later in the game if we kill off another commando, we will see if commando kills stop and predator kills fill in the void.


Sorry if my posts are getting TOO big... I have a habit of having a lot to say, and doing so with a lot of words. Let me know if its a big problem, and I'll try to make my posts more concise and to the point in the future. (In the game I just finished, large, thoughtful wall posts became not only accepted, but sort of expected... I know not everyone appreciates huge posts).

[Ectomancer]

and continues...

StrangerCoug
Mafia Scum





Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 06 May 2008
Location: El Paso, TX


PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: 427 Reply with quote
Rhinox, if you want to sue me for making hasty generalizations of Ectomancer, then go straight ahead, but as I said, I suspect him most.
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StrangerCoug
Mafia Scum





Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 06 May 2008
Location: El Paso, TX


PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject: 428 Reply with quote
EBWOP: For the record, part of my reasoning for my voting Ectomancer is how I don't like how he buddied up to muffinhead when he was about to be lynched. muffinhead flipped Commando, so that makes Ectomancer an object of suspicion.

His bloodthirstiness Day 1 when he tried to off me for voting myself is also something of concern to me, but not as big as siding up with muffinhead without a lot of reasoning.
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Rhinox
Mafia Scum





Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Location: Cleveland, OH


PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: 429 Reply with quote
ok ecto... here's 3 questions/comment based on your last answer. Answer as you see fit.

1:
Quote:

I DO like Yosarian. He was my favorite. So I want him to be a good guy? Sue me.

There are 12 safe whisker names Rishi gave out in the intro post. All are "good guys" on the show, but scum use them to fake claim. Muffin wasn't Yosarian, he was Hannibal, a commando. Yosarian is still a good guy, just not present in the game aside from a safe name given to a scum. I find it suspect that you would want to believe someone based only on their name, knowing that all scum have safe names to claim with. And I'm not a big fan of just trying to brush it aside as unimportant with the "sue me" comment either...

2:
Quote:
I do think we are down to 1 scum. If that is right, every innocent result a scum cop gives has to be true. Since you dont know if he is scum or not, you can keep letting him tell you who is town. I've had it work before to narrow down targets.

I'm still not following this. Before we lynched muffin, we weren't down to just one scum. He told us Cass was innocent, maybe (hypothetically) cass is his scum partner. If we'd blindly believe that to be true, we could lose. Could you please describe how you saw things going down if muffin was a scum cop, or possibly reference the game where you've used a scum cop to narrow down targets so I can understand what you're talking about?

3:
Quote:
Dont forget, he could have been cop.

Yes, but you said you didn't believe his claim. On the contrary, you voted to lynch mafiamann despite believing his townie claim. Why, if you're town, would you vote to lynch after a claim you do believe, and would you ask us not to lynch after a claim you don't believe?

======================================================

coug wrote:
Rhinox, if you want to sue me for making hasty generalizations of Ectomancer, then go straight ahead, but as I said, I suspect him most.


Wow, another "sue me" comment... So you suspect ecto most. Great, so do I. But you voted, and the only reason you gave why was wrong. I find it a bit hypocritcal that you can go after cass for voting opportunistically and you won't act in line with your own definition of an opportunistic vote. I'm also a bit concerned that you think its a problem for me to ask you to properly justify your vote.

coug wrote:
EBWOP: For the record, part of my reasoning for my voting Ectomancer is how I don't like how he buddied up to muffinhead when he was about to be lynched. muffinhead flipped Commando, so that makes Ectomancer an object of suspicion.

His bloodthirstiness Day 1 when he tried to off me for voting myself is also something of concern to me, but not as big as siding up with muffinhead without a lot of reasoning.


Thanks. thats what I wanted to hear. What do you think about this in the context of not believing muffins claim, yet voting for mafiamann despite publically claiming the he did believe MM's claim?

And if you were offended by the obvious sarcasm towards you in my last post, I'm sorry, but I get a little steamed everytime someone uses the "I have a life" defense in internet games such as mafia. Because the obvious backhanded implication is that the rest of us don't have lives, even thought we're all here on the internet trying to have fun wasting time playing a game together. Don't assume you're the only person on the internet who secretely has a life away from the internet.
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StrangerCoug
Mafia Scum





Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 06 May 2008
Location: El Paso, TX


PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject: 430 Reply with quote
Rhinox wrote:
coug wrote:
EBWOP: For the record, part of my reasoning for my voting Ectomancer is how I don't like how he buddied up to muffinhead when he was about to be lynched. muffinhead flipped Commando, so that makes Ectomancer an object of suspicion.

His bloodthirstiness Day 1 when he tried to off me for voting myself is also something of concern to me, but not as big as siding up with muffinhead without a lot of reasoning.


Thanks. thats what I wanted to hear. What do you think about this in the context of not believing muffins claim, yet voting for mafiamann despite publically claiming the he did believe MM's claim?


Voting somebody you believe makes no sense, I'll tell you that. I can't think of anything at the moment that you haven't said already, but I like this post of yours:
Rhinox wrote:
Case 3 is obviously the muffin lynch. You argued that the case on muffin was weak, but after muffin claimed you didn't believe him. When it looked like no one was backing off, you changed and said he could be a cop and went back to claiming that the case on him was weak.

You're right, whether or not you defended muffin as your scum partner IS WIFOM, but that doesn't mean that gives you a free pass to do it without it being a legit possibility. But actually, whats more telling is that I found 2 examples of you endorsing a lynch based on weaker evidence than that on muffin, and 1 example of you endorsing a lynch of a player after a townie claim you believed. With muffin, there was a stronger case than either of the cases on coug on D1 or MM before his lynch, and muffin made a claim you did NOT believe, and yet this time, you were against the lynch. This is directly conflicting with your established play style in this game, and this is why I think you have a lot to answer for today.


Basic reasonings for his votes:

StrangerCoug (that's me): I voted myself and someone has to die
MafiaMann (1st vote): ClockworkRuse has a better case on MafiaMann than he has against me (though he has me mistaken with who I think is The Pope's Tiara)
ClockworkRuse: Either he doesn't know what the town PM's look like or he's rolefishing
MafiaMann (2nd vote): As long as this post here is, it's not helping me decipher why this vote's here.
jonathan86: According to him, jonathan86 "is 'helping' along a bandwagon, yet backpedaling in the middle of doing it."

Ectomancer never voted for muffinhead.
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wolframnhart
Mafia Scum





Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Location: California


PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject: 431 Reply with quote
Ectomancer wrote:
It's a pretty good case, but Im afraid that I really cant reply to a wall of text like that. Some things, of course are indefensible. You tend to waffle when town and you arent exactly you arent sure what you are doing. It happens.
A few things. I asked people to re-explain their cases after they decided Vi/Bogre was ok. It's not an unreasonable request. Later I did ask to keep him around for the following reasons.
2: I DO like Yosarian. He was my favorite. So I want him to be a good guy? Sue me.
3: I do think we are down to 1 scum. If that is right, every innocent result a scum cop gives has to be true. Since you dont know if he is scum or not, you can keep letting him tell you who is town. I've had it work before to narrow down targets.
4: Dont forget, he could have been cop.

Anyhow, line up anything else in sizable chunks. I can reply, but not to entire chapters.


I really am not liking this post for a couple of reasons:
1)To say that you want someone to be a good guy just because you like their character is not very helpful to the town, after all didn't Doopey turn out to be mafia godfather in a game? (Can't remember if that was said in this game or another i am in). If everyone said "Aww Doppey is so cute and stupid no way could he be town" that wouldn't help a bit.
2)Saying sue me seems a lil defensive.
3)I went along with a person that ended up being scum, regular scum not scum cop, because they claimed cop. Had we followed blindly (which we did until LYLO) we would have lost, and to have alot of innocent people killed just to narrow suspects doesn't really help anything.
4)Yes, he could have been a cop, but his attitude and posting didn't seem cop-like. The fact that he claimed cop after Cass said "what if he is" then claiming Cass innocent was just way too fishy to have been believed anyways.
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jonathantan86
Goon





Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 08 Jan 2007



PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: 432 Reply with quote
wolframnhart wrote:
jonathantan86 wrote:
Yes I'm not committing myself---my reasons for putting this vote is similar to those who have put the vote on me in Day 1. The second statement is true, but I don't see what's wrong with that. Also, I'm not helping a bandwagon---the bandwagon is on muffinhead, not bogre.


Ok so here Jon admits not commiting himself but also admits that he is not "helping a bandwagon" then says the bandwagon is on Muffinhead, not Bogre. So he is fine with voting the bandwagon against Bogre, but not muffinhead? That pinged my scumdar when I re read his posts.


I still think that the votes on bogre at that time do not constitute a bandwagon.

wolframnhart wrote:
Now here on the two Vi vs Jon posts we can see that Jon was becoming very suspicious in Vi's eyes, and was being called on it. Then Vi ends up dead. This may not seem like much, but when scum A gets lynched, and playerB who won't go near his bandwagon is being looked at hard by playerC, and then C ends up dead at night just seems too much like B getting rid of C to quiet C down. That was what I was trying to say earlier Rhinox, bu when your fiance is nagging your ear as you try to type you tend to hurry LoL. Anyways back on topic..

Vi's role could have been a power protective role, I don't know I didn't make this game. I would have hoped hat if it was a protective role something like "human shield" or "bus driver" would have been in quotes. babysitter just doesn't scream protective to me, probably was just flavor I don't know the show so i don't know if thats what Vi's char was or not. If she was protecting someone and ended up dead from it then that blows the second portion of my case against Jon out the window, but I still think the first part of my case holds true.


Firstly, as you said, if vi's role was a bodyguard-like role, this part is not a case. If I remember correctly, vi was suspicious of other people too, not just me. So why point fingers at me straight away? Even if vi was suspicious of me the most, someone might have tried to frame me.
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wolframnhart
Mafia Scum





Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Location: California


PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject: 433 Reply with quote
Reason I was looking at you first before the other people Jon is because as I sated, you have not really contributed to the game much, just kind of sat back and watched. Also the fact that as i already stated, you wouldn't touch the muffinhead wagon, but were all aboard the Bogre voting. You are right about one thing though, it wasn't much of a wagon when you voted, in fact after I looked at when you did vote it was just Cass because I had already unvoted Bogre. You then voted to "put pressure" on Bogre which makes no sense if there was only one person on Bogre at that time. All you have been doing this entire game is play it safe and in a small way stay under the radar. If you aren't commando I can see you being a SK role and seeing how your SK partner got killed you are trying to survive till the end.
_________________
Muerrto: Well, if you're scum Wolf, you don't need any lessons in sounding sincere.

And you still dont think I had a lot of crap to respond to? You still want to harp over 1 missed item? Give me a break. You dont want answers. Right now you want a gang bang.

[curiouskarmadog]

Give me three examples from completed games of saying "I don't know how to go about such and such a comment, but it is noted" being an attempt at lining up lynches later and I'll believe your argument.

I seriously thought you were town, CKD. Now I'm having serious doubts.

FoS: curiouskarmadog

if I go and pull 3 games...and you believe my arguement..what will happen then, you will vote yourself? You will unFoS?....I will do it, if you promise to read the games and the outcomes...for it will take some time to pull them.

also, i find it interesting that you "have doubts" but still continue to vote with me.

jesus, I am so torn at this point.

[curiouskarmadog]

ECTO QUIT AVOIDING QUESTIONS

you STILL didnt answer the question ecto (this is the 3rd time I am asking it)..

did you READ the wall of texts or not...please quit avoiding the question...if you did, why did you not respond as you read?..that is typically how it is done here on mafia, you have been around for awhile so you should know that.

Also, do you think walls of text are scummy?...and before you answer, know that I am king of meta.

also, claim.

[Ectomancer]

ECTO QUIT AVOIDING QUESTIONS

you STILL didnt answer the question ecto (this is the 3rd time I am asking it)..

did you READ the wall of texts or not...please quit avoiding the question...if you did, why did you not respond as you read?..that is typically how it is done here on mafia, you have been around for awhile so you should know that.

Also, do you think walls of text are scummy?...and before you answer, know that I am king of meta.

also, claim.

You deal with your time constraints, I'll deal with mine. If I have a certain amount of time, which isn't unusual, I'll respond to smaller requests. Walls of text? No, I almost never respond PbP, though I do read them. I'll post what I think is most important to be said,

keeping things concise and clear

which walls of text rarely do.
Are walls of text scummy? If you are such the King of Meta, then you know good and well that walls of text are one of my favorite devices for creating confusion as scum AND has been stated so in games I've played on this site. You are welcome to spend your time finding one.

[Ectomancer]

Also, your request for a claim has been noted.

[Ectomancer]

Let me ask a fundamental question, and answer honestly to yourself. I was the one who nailed Clockwork, after just supporting him. I did this on a scum tell. I believe this is what forced him to make his daykill when he did. There may be convolutions that can be discussed over bussing (even though I believe he is an SK and no bussing possible), or I am scum, found a different group of scum and went after them simply to look good.
I found scum because I am scum hunting. Ask yourself, was that person a townie scum hunting, or scum that just got lucky and took out a rival? Which is more likely?
Does anyone disagree with that scenario?

[curiouskarmadog]

if you think walls of text are scummy...explain this post?

Alright, let's do some loose theorizing here.

I dont think it is a far stretch to assume that Clock was working alone. (though I still say the possibility, however small, exists for 2 scum groups of 2) Regardless, another scum faction exists in the game and had no idea of Clock's alignment.

What would they do? I may be circling the WIFOM maelstrom and just may possibly fall in, but here goes:

They could assume Clock was town.
They might have gotten lucky and guessed him as a Predator.

I think the greater likelyhood is they would have thought him town. (as I did at one time)

So I think there are a couple of positions scum would try to occupy, depending upon whether MM is scum himself or not.

Let's say MM is town.

Early on in the wagon, scum might see a townie (Clock) attacking another townie (MM). At that time, one of the scum would be tempted to lend some early support to the wagon make sure it takes off. A researcher would comb this time frame for interactions.
Later in the wagon, if it looked like MM was going to be lynched for sure, if they had jumped on early, they would certainly be sitting securely there, and maybe even a little quiet about the whole thing now. If they had not voted against MM, in order to be active, they would probably be looking to toss in a few lines for the next day lynch by gently forwarding a case against someone else, or prepping for the Clock lynch if MM turned up town. (but not enough to derail the MM wagon)

Now, if we assume MM scum:

Early on, who knows what his partners would be doing.
Middle round, as the wagon builds, they might start getting nervous and feel obliged to defend MM, maybe subtly if they are feeling momentum going the wrong way. I believe this is also a good place to bus a partner if you can feel that the case is going to go through.
Late rounds, it is almost too late to bus, but scum might still do it, usually without advancing the case, just rehashing or rephrasing old arguments.

Now all of this seems to point to me wanting to lynch MM, because I think we could get some decent information if we knew his alignment. I hesitated to put forth that idea originally because, as you can see, the information would be dubious, unless he turns up scum. But there actually is a good and valid reason to lynch MM today, and that has to do with Clock turning up Predator.

If we assume Clock was a day SK, he had no idea of MM's alignment. You see, I was going to go back to my case against SC, because I moved off of it due to Clock's case against MM being a better one (IMO). SC's case is still pretty good.

However.

If I'm an SK, I scum hunt. I need them dead, the sooner, the better.

To me, that means that Clock's case isn't trash to be tossed aside. I think it was an honest one.

With that assessment:

vote MafiaMann

I think the case was a good one, and though the information gained may be too WIFOMish to use, I would still like to know whether Clock was right.

interesting you are taking credit for Clock...Maybe you need to reread again...and see exactly who nabbed Clock on a scum tell first....you are using that as your defense, yet your vote is on me when I was actually the first one to attack clock..scummy and ironic

but for the sake of the arguement..lets say that you were on to clock first and his death was solely because of you..

soo?

I dont think you are a SK I think you are mafia...the mafia probably wants the SK(s) dead as much as we do...so what?

so no claim huh?..cant think of another good lie?

reconfirm vote on Ecto

or "you are scum"

[StrangerCoug]

if I go and pull 3 games...and you believe my arguement..what will happen then, you will vote yourself? You will unFoS?....I will do it, if you promise to read the games and the outcomes...for it will take some time to pull them.

Will do with an un-FoS signifying that I am done.

also, i find it interesting that you "have doubts" but still continue to vote with me.

Remember that one of the possible interpretations I got of "you are scum" is an attempt at a bus.

[Rhinox]

Rrriiiiight... lets just quote half the thread. That'll prove you're innocent.

*facepalm*

Way to quote even the posts that weren't about you. But hey, anything to *prove* your argument that you're being unfairly attacked.

Whats so hard about answering this one question. I've asked it in isolation a couple times now. Here it is again:

You claim you line of questioning was cut off prematurely when ckd hammered. Please direct me to one or more posts of yours where you asked a question towards muffin (or someone else about muffin's lynch), expressed that you wanted muffin to say something, presented an alternative route of investigation, or did anything at all other than sit there and say "don't lynch muffin".

Bolded so its easier for ecto to see and read. Sorry Rishi.

[Ectomancer]

Right here Rhinox. As you can see, it is easy to miss items in the middle of a bunch of text.

@Ectomancer: Surely flavor is not the only reason you want muffinhead alive.

I always liked Yosarian, and I believe that there is a situation whereby a scum cop must always tell the truth. I just have to remember what it is.

A clear indication that I was still putting thought to our situation. Did CKD ask if I had figured it out? No. Perhaps he missed it? I could buy that excuse, though it isn't one he has given. Was there a question mark at the end of my statement? Did I ask someone specifically what they thought about it? No. It is obvious however that I for one had not given up on what we could do yesterday other than simply lynch Muffin.

CKD - IM the one who pounded Clock over his repeated requests for flavor. It was after I made those statements that he paniced and made his daykill.

Oh yes, the "you're quoting things that weren't about you". Are you seriously to limit my scope of this game to only what is written about me? It isn't bending facts to fit my argument, its a fact that there was ALOT of material and indeed, ALOT of it was about me or indirectly related.


@CKD - you are horrid at verbal traps. I stated specifically that walls of text are a device used by scum to create confusion. It doesnt mean that EVERY large post is scummy, so pulling out one of mine that is larger just shows the depths to which you are willing to stoop to try to get a lynch on me.

Do you suppose claims are supposed to just leap forward anytime you ask for one CKD? You rate high on the scum meter for me, so it will take just a bit more than you to get any flavor or claim from me.

[curiouskarmadog]

so when Rhino posts it is "wall of text" when you post it is a "large post"..one thing is scummy, but when you do it, it is meaningless.

Funny you didnt speak up when muffin was asked to claim...

here is a question that doesnt need a defense..so it should be easy to answer.

who are your top two scum suspects right now and why.

[StrangerCoug]

Do you suppose claims are supposed to just leap forward anytime you ask for one CKD?

Let's put it this way: You're at lynch minus one. Claiming is the only chance you'll have of living at this point.

[Ectomancer]

Why are you playing stupid games?
I remarked about missing things in walls of text.
YOU asked whether they were scummy or not.
I explained that I have stated Mr. META, that walls of text are a great scum tactic.
You did not ask, NOR did I say that Rhino's large post was scummy.
When Muffin was asked to claim, I said then that he shouldnt be lynched, but he should go ahead and claim.

Top suspect is you. Your recent method of trying to build a case is a primary reason. There is no need for town to continuously try to lay words traps or harangue over semantics.

2nd is one to look at. Now that Muffin came up scum, whoever brought up that Bogre/Muffin scum pair, plus Vi are in the spotlight.

[Ectomancer]

Do you suppose claims are supposed to just leap forward anytime you ask for one CKD?

Let's put it this way: You're at lynch minus one. Claiming is the only chance you'll have of living at this point.

Why would it be the only chance? Why would the discussion not weigh in your decision?

[StrangerCoug]

The last time I checked, the least dangerous person to lynch other than scum is a vanilla. Town would rather keep its cop, doc, tracker, whatever. By not claiming, you come off as having something to hide that town perhaps shouldn't know.

[Ectomancer]

The last time I checked, the least dangerous person to lynch other than scum is a vanilla. Town would rather keep its cop, doc, tracker, whatever. By not claiming, you come off as having something to hide that town perhaps shouldn't know.

It is the discussion and evidence that should be weighed in a lynch, and though a claim is part of it, it is CERTAINLY not a persons 'only' chance of not being lynched.
Your post is odd in that you seem to not think that I am not scum, but am only wanting to determine whether I am vanilla so that you can lynch safely? Does that mean you are so convinced I will be lynched, that you wont even give your own opinion in the matter? You sound as though even if you feel there is an available defense for me, the lynch is so inevitable you have no desire to voice opposition or support for it.

[Cass]

Do you suppose claims are supposed to just leap forward anytime you ask for one CKD?

Let's put it this way: You're at lynch minus one. Claiming is the only chance you'll have of living at this point.

I have to disagree with this, and I have to agree with Ecto that this is a scummy thing to say. The day is only a few pages long. Ecto isn't confirmed scum or anything, so a quicklynch would be bad - and certainly unnecessary.

FoS: StrangerCoug

I don't think asking for a claim is bad (in fact, I would like one from Ecto), but it is definitely not the only chance to avoid a lynch, there is no need to do it right now, and as far as I am concerned anyone has a right to refuse to claim. In won't quicklynch Ecto over that.

[wolframnhart]

mod can we prod jon if possible? i think you do a 72 hour rule but with everything going on it might be a good idea to prod him.

[Rishi]

Vote Count

Ectomancer – 3 (StrangerCoug, Rhinox, curiouskarmadog)
curiouskarmadog – 1 (Ectomancer)
jonathantan86 – 1 (wolframnhart)

Not voting: Cass, jonathantan86

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch.

mod can we prod jon if possible? i think you do a 72 hour rule but with everything going on it might be a good idea to prod him.

I love it when players answer their own questions. The answer is no prod before 72 hours. Sorry.

[wolframnhart]

Fair enough Rishi.

[Ectomancer]

Have fun all. I've requested a replacement after getting a warning for spamming the thread. If I'm not allowed to defend myself, however many posts or quotes it takes, then there is little point bothering to play the game.

[jonathantan86]

Ectomancer said he had this strategy where a claimed cop shouldn't be lynched until LYLO or he turns in a guilty result, but this works only if there is only one scum left. It might have been a genuine mistake on his part. The lack of questions from him does not mean that he is not pursuing a line of investigation, I think, since there already were other people pressing muffinhead.

So I do not really think he is scum, at least not yet. However, I also think he should claim.

Cass hasn't been posting much, but I guess I could say the same for myself.

I think StrangerCoug deserves more scrutiny however, for his Day 1 actions at the very least.

[Rishi]

Have fun all. I've requested a replacement after getting a warning for spamming the thread. If I'm not allowed to defend myself, however many posts or quotes it takes, then there is little point bothering to play the game.

Talked to Ectomancer. He's staying in the game.