Mini Normal 2187: PIFiMDM [game over!]

[Datisi]

Vote count 2.06

with 10 votes in play, it takes 6 to make a decision. day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-01-13 23:45:00).

execution

Hayker [5]:

Gamma Emerald, unwnd, Kazyan, Lunar Martian, Elements

Not voting [5]:

northsidegal, Papa Zito, 2ndchosen1,

Dannflor

, Hayker

mod notes

~ northsidegal is the new HeWhoSwims
~ yeet

flavour

[Dannflor]

i'm getting the "starting a new game of mafia after months of not playing and being washed up" jitters, very nostalgic

I was very lucky in that being confirmed town has helped me quite a bit with those jitters

have you read any of the game or are you replacing in blind?

[northsidegal]

blind, i'm reading up right now

[Kazyan]

2nd, I'm not sure how my post 873 doesn't count as a response to 871. To both you and unwind, I don't actually know what you want me to re-evaluate about the Alchemist situation--I was just plain wrong, and Hayker's situation is totally different, because there's actual game mechanical substance behind it. I guess I'm just confused as to what information you want.

Regarding Gamma, I keep going back and forth on him. I still think Gamma is more likely to be town than otherwise; Gamma's play leading up to post 190 still looks like scum wouldn't do that. Getting quiet all of the sudden could be suspicious, but two similarly-cantankerous players lost interest in this game already; I wouldn't be surprised in a third. I'm also thinking LM is town--there hasn't been any change in LM's behavior of swinging at everyone. You would expect him to get more protective if he were scum, given how scum is on the back foot right now. Except, you know, actually ignore me on this because it's closer to the Alchemist situation than the Hayker one.

Unrelatedly: hello, northsidegal! Welcome to the argument!

[Dannflor]

if you want a summary of anything from my perspective let me know

[Kazyan]

By the way, do we still want to put a delay on the hammer?

[northsidegal]

By the way, do we still want to put a delay on the hammer?

i'd prefer if you'd hold off for my sake

[Kazyan]

Aight, bet. UNVOTE:

[unwnd]

Gamma/Hayker/Papa. GG.

I don't understand where you see this, could you explain a bit further?

[unwnd]

unwnd
While I like the consideration of the scum agenda I see no reason why you didn't cover Hayker's 3rd potential agenda, however unlikely it may be.

Is gamma's response or lack thereof in line with what you read on them?

I feel like I should be taking the whole '3rd agenda' as some kind of joke lol

It's telling in ways that feed into my confbias and nothing else

[northsidegal]

if you wouldn't mind, could i get a quick summary of your reads, dann?

[northsidegal]

or if you want me to go first i can

[Gamma Emerald]

hello
I'm still thinking we should push Elements or unwnd, scum 100% was sheeping the IC I feel

Gamma you're giving me Mini Normal vibes lol

did you mean to include a number there?

The one you were scum in if that helps

There’s only one recently where I was
Does it look like that one?

[Dannflor]

if you wouldn't mind, could i get a quick summary of your reads, dann?

TOWN

[dannflor]
[unwnd, kazyan, 2ndchosen]

[lunar, elements, papa zito] --- APPROACHING NULL TO VARYING DEGREES

[hewhoswims, gamma]
[hayker]
SCUM

this is somewhere in the general vicinity of where I am right now, although I've had some recent fluctuations, I can expand on specific slots if you want, but I'm less solid on certain ones than others

My case on Hayker is in my ISO

I'm taking a bit of a step back right now to reread and let other people do stuff in the game without IC influence

[unwnd]

hello
I'm still thinking we should push Elements or unwnd, scum 100% was sheeping the IC I feel

Gamma you're giving me Mini Normal vibes lol

did you mean to include a number there?

The one you were scum in if that helps

There’s only one recently where I was
Does it look like that one?

Yes from where I'm sitting

Just wondering where your head is at

[northsidegal]

this is somewhere in the general vicinity of where I am right now, although I've had some recent fluctuations, I can expand on specific slots if you want, but I'm less solid on certain ones than others

how confident are you on NPOM / agar? his is the main slot i'm flip flopping on, all the others are at least approaching one direction or the other. i feel as though NPOM was immediately and obviously way more anxious in another scum game that i looked at (although that was his only one), and as the kids say i have ~reasons~ to think he might be town, but even still there's a residual doubt.

i think i agree with you more than i disagree with you so far, although maybe not to a huge degree. both kazyan and lunar are really the only ones on the town side for me, with gamma and elements being scumreads. i'd do one of those curly brace readslists but i'm not sure how helpful it'd be.

having skipped ahead to the start of day 2 i know there's some shenanigans surrounding hayker's fakeclaiming, but having not gotten to that yet in my main read through he's fairly null alongside 2ndchosen. zito is hovering somewhere around null/scum, although i think that might just be paranoia because he's a vaguely familiar player but i don't actually have any idea of how he plays.

[Gamma Emerald]

hello
I'm still thinking we should push Elements or unwnd, scum 100% was sheeping the IC I feel

Gamma you're giving me Mini Normal vibes lol

did you mean to include a number there?

The one you were scum in if that helps

There’s only one recently where I was
Does it look like that one?

Yes from where I'm sitting

Just wondering where your head is at

I think PZ’s content recently looks decent but I have a concern about IIoA. If it can be determined it’s not that I’m comfortable TRing PZ

[northsidegal]

Alchemist, I'm curious about your current thoughts on Elements. You voted him early on , asking him about their post, and havent seemed to elaborate much on the subject since then.

quoting this for reference

[northsidegal]

@gamma, how often do you accuse people of "white knighting", and why do you think it comes from scum, or benefits scum? more than town, of course.

[Gamma Emerald]

I would like if you defined how my game is similar to that scumgame though.

[northsidegal]

also just for post-game credit and i guess just to make my reads clear if i had to pick three people as the scumteam right now it'd be hayker elements and gamma

[unwnd]

I wrote a bit about my concerns a page or two back

[Gamma Emerald]

@gamma, how often do you accuse people of "white knighting", and why do you think it comes from scum, or benefits scum? more than town, of course.

I think I bring it up as a point somewhat frequently. I think it benefits scum because it garners trust with the person being defended, as long as the target doesn’t have their own hold on the situation. I don’t think it’s scum-exclusive, but when Ben did it in this game it felt like he was impeding wagon development and sorting.

[Gamma Emerald]

Honestly, unless I'm all sorts of wrong about this game and like the NPOM/unwnd slot is scum it feels like mafia have given up. That's part of why I was so quick to jump to the Zito as scum theory simply because he was one of the few attempting to do *something* this day phase. But maybe the simpler solution is just that scum don't want to touch this day phase with a ten foot pole.

So the activity is telling to you in terms of what's going on? I could possibly see that, but right now I think the only people who have truly engaged are me, you, PZ, and maybe Kazyan. Scum aren't usually prompted into activity, it's all based on aligned self-interest. You were mentioning in your small thoughtrant that you worry Gamma's activity would be telling, but I don't know if scum are just cornered. It doesn't feel that simple to me, rather I believe they're just waiting for their next best move. This is why I mentioned the game I was in (Innocent Things). I was scum there and I found myself having nothing to hide behind. Both me, FL and even nopoint were the most active posters on D1. The activity in that regard is telling to me that scum is not exactly directing the game, rather just finding comfortable ways to force content. We may have posted a lot but I don't feel like we necessarily controlled who was living or dying, rather our MO was mostly what I described.

This is the best I can come up with for you talking about me, and it’s buried within a wall of text
Can you extract your thoughts on me, and maybe give more elaboration while you’re at it?

[Lunar Martian]

I think northsidegal is Town for what it's worth. I agree with her reads so far to an almost alarming degree. The only thing I disagree with is that I have Papa as Mafia over elements.