Mini Normal 2187: PIFiMDM [game over!]

[Datisi]

Vote count 2.02

with 10 votes in play, it takes 6 to make a decision. day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-01-13 23:45:00).

execution

Hayker [4]:

Gamma Emerald, NoPowerOverMe, Kazyan, Lunar Martian

Not voting [6]:

Hayker, HeWhoSwims, Papa Zito, Elements, 2ndchosen1,

Dannflor

mod notes

~ yeet

flavour

[Papa Zito]

Hayker votes elements in 177 and reiterates the read in 249 and 457. 457 also states a scumread on AGar. 652 yet again points at Elements, but says it isn't going anywhere so votes kazyan. 661 pushes Kazyan further. 710 is the doctor claim, 727 is the hammer.

I'd like to point out 652:

I still very much feel elements is scum, since Friday he has asked for support on two wagons, supported another, and

then a silent vote on Alchemist

. One of the votes is basicslly asking dann is he'd like to wagon with him. This seems to be an empty persuit for now.

Of the current wagons, i like penguins Iso a bit more every time I read the posts.

My biggest sus, elements, has pushed the alchemist wagon several times heavily

. I also think Kazyan played rather nervously when the pressure was on them, and I'd like to know why.

vote:kazyan

(emphasis mine) He chooses to note

twice

that Elements pushed the Alchemist wagon, and he also made sure to remind us that Elements was his top scum pick. Clearly this would point to a heavy Alchemist townread. In fact this is the only time he talks about Alchemist at all. I find it exceedingly strange that Hayker would 180 this read and hammer Alchemist, even with setup spec in play.

[Kazyan]

So it's not just me who thinks nothing about this game makes sense. Ack.

[Dannflor]

I think it makes some sense.

[Dannflor]

Zito, who do you think is scum?

[Papa Zito]

I'm not buying Hayker's "misread" explanation nor his flip onto Alchemist if my previous posts weren't clear.

Beyond that if he flips red I'll look for associatives then. I'm not getting anything out of votes or movements this game because people are just freaking sheeping.

[Dannflor]

you have no scum reads outside of Hayker?

there were quite a few wagon movements D1 that wouldn't be considered sheeping. It wasn't until end of D1 where that occurred and it's quite understandable that there would be a lot of naked votes even without an IC then because we were running up against a deadline.

[Gamma Emerald]

This IC stuff is really screwing with things. It's too easy for people to just shadow one person.

scum are probably in there

[Dannflor]

That's a weird assumption

[NoPowerOverMe]

There's a difference between sheeping the IC and knowing that they have the best chance of having town intentions.

[Lunar Martian]

There's a difference between sheeping the IC and knowing that they have the best chance of having town intentions.

Don't you have Town intentions? What about your own thinking?

[NoPowerOverMe]

Of course I have town intentions. But you don't win in mafia in a vacuum.

[Lunar Martian]

I like having Dann to work with and bounce ideas off. But I don't think its a good idea to just sheep Dann. It's too easy for Mafia to nudge Dann towards a Town and then say "I was just following the leader, don't blame me!"

[Kazyan]

Upon going through Hayker's iso:

PenguinPower - 2 Confirmed town
Alchemist21 - 2 + V Confirmed town
HeWhoSwims - 0
NoPowerOverMe - 0
AGar ben dover123 - 2 Confirmed town
Papa Zito - 4 + V + TR
Elements - 6 + V
2ndchosen1 - 0
Dannflor - 1 Confirmed town
Gamma Emerald - 1/2
Lunar Martian - 1
Kazyan - 4 + V

The only progression on anyone is Papa Zito from voting in RVS to a town read due to meta from [over a decade ago].
Pushed me the entire day without rlly looking at anyone else until the Alch wagon.

13p so 2/3 maf, I'm leaning three given the flips so far + vig shot.
Given the associations here I'd be looking in [NPOM, HeWhoSwims, 2ndchosen1, Gamma] as partners

I wouldn't cast an equal amount of shade on 2ndchosen1 and HeWhoSwims as the other two, simply because 2nd and HWS have not been as chatty. I'm coming around to the "Gamma is scum" idea, honestly. Pointing finger of suspicion at Gamma, but we have a Hayker fish to fry.

HeWhoSwims, any thoughts on the situation?

[Gamma Emerald]

That's a weird assumption

No it’s not, it’s completely logical. It’s a pretty unassailable move to follow to person who has confirmed town motives on one level, and it spares scum from forming real stances. Scum also love to discredit conftown and a good way to do that imo would be to pile on while claiming you’re sheeping the IC, then once that flips wrong the IC’s reads lose some credibility so if they push you you can attack that.

[HeWhoSwims]

Idk. Maybe I believe too much in the good side of people or whatever but it would seem outlandish to me to fakeclaim a full doctor of all roles, place the hammer, defend the claim up and down and especially in a game where we already have 3PRs on the table right now -- would scum dare to do that? Would it be worth it to ask a possible other protective to "counterclaim", seeing if we have a doc its out on the table already, or is that incredibly dumb?

[NoPowerOverMe]

If you "believe too much in the good side of people" then you're playing the wrong game.

[HeWhoSwims]

Duh.
You know what I meant, I hope. But I have my questions. I don't know Hayker at all so maybe his meta is to do this shit, but it seems like a too convoluted plan to eliminate him right away.

[Papa Zito]

you have no scum reads outside of Hayker?

I have day 1 scumreads yes, but I don't think they're nearly as informed.

This IC stuff is really screwing with things. It's too easy for people to just shadow one person.

scum are probably in there

Normally I'd agree and be extremely suspicious, but one of the worst offenders has already flipped town for us.

But I have my questions.

Did I miss your questions?

[Kazyan]

Idk. Maybe I believe too much in the good side of people or whatever but it would seem outlandish to me to fakeclaim a full doctor of all roles, place the hammer, defend the claim up and down and especially in a game where we already have 3PRs on the table right now -- would scum dare to do that? Would it be worth it to ask a possible other protective to "counterclaim", seeing if we have a doc its out on the table already, or is that incredibly dumb?

What? Hayker made that claim

before

three confirmed power roles happened. He's holding onto the claim because backpedaling would just be confirmation that he lied and is Mafia. It seems pretty straightforward to me.

[2ndchosen1]

Idk. Maybe I believe too much in the good side of people or whatever but it would seem outlandish to me to fakeclaim a full doctor of all roles, place the hammer, defend the claim up and down and especially in a game where we already have 3PRs on the table right now -- would scum dare to do that? Would it be worth it to ask a possible other protective to "counterclaim", seeing if we have a doc its out on the table already, or is that incredibly dumb?

What? Hayker made that claim

before

three confirmed power roles happened. He's holding onto the claim because backpedaling would just be confirmation that he lied and is Mafia. It seems pretty straightforward to me.

Lying about your role seems like a thing Kazyan(Alch's claim of cop) so the significance is he's maintaining the claim despite it...i think

[Elements]

Anyone else think NPOM's posts so far today have been severely lacking?
And the one about role madness PR fishing?

[Elements]

VOTE: NPOM

[NoPowerOverMe]

I'm not the one who originally brought it up. God forbid I save the town from making faulty assumptions about the game setup.

[Gamma Emerald]

Normally I'd agree and be extremely suspicious, but one of the worst offenders has already flipped town for us.

I don’t think one wrong guess is enough to toss the entire pot
Ime that just narrows the suspect pool on that.