Mini #582: Meta Mafia Mini! GAME OVER!

[Mr Stoofer]

On review, actually, it seems Stoofer is only back doing listmoderation, and even that appears to be limited- mith is looking for a replacement listmod.

This is correct. Sorry guys, but I have to leave the site. I asked for a replacement some time ago.

[KingPin]

Great! Does that mean we will have a replacement?

Do we lynch Jo and then Stoof?
Do we lynch Stoof and then Jo?

I just want to thank Stoof for at least coming in and stating that he is not participating any further with anything on this site. Not really what I was expecting.

I agree that we need some sort of consensus moving forward. I believe the town is in agreement that either Stoofer or Jo is scum. The question becomes, which one today. I'd say lynch Jo first, if Stoofer is not participating, no harm - no foul. With Jo gone, no confusion about night choices. And if there is something screwy at night, then Stoofer(or replacement) is next.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I also think johoohno is the better first lynch.

[KingPin]

Agreed!

Any last words Jo?

I'll go first.

Vote: Johoohno

[Johoohno]

I obviously dislike the lynching of me. I really don't see a townly reason to lynch me over Stoofer. I am more valuable to town than Stoofer (I believe the remaining scum would like me lynched since that reduces the risk of getting his night kill backfiring on himself, whereas Stoofer won't do anything during night -except possibly nightkill people.).

Are you basing your vote/wish to lynch me on guts or on any evidence at all?

[the silent speaker]

Massive replaces Mr Stoofer, effective immediately. Thank you, Massive.

Vote vount to follow shortly.

[DestroyeroftheSky]

I'm down with a Jo lynch.

Vote: Johoohno

[massive]

Guess who's back! Back again!

(Why, welcome back, massive, it's good to see your smiling face again!)

I had been keeping up with the thread. I was really disappointed to find that Stoofer was telling the truth, to some extent. He started out the game as a role priority switcher (first night choice: mathcam/DOTS, second night choice: EmpTyger/massive) and got the "You are a Townie" PM after (presumably) being night-rolekilled by mneme. I guess he was banking on the "You are a Townie" part to keep him safe, which was dumb because he hinted all day one about being able to do stuff.

Just waiting on a vote count but will vote Jo.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

That ties up a loose end.

Johoohno's at L-1. Anyone have any good reason not to hammer?

[KingPin]

unvote

I am blown away by this revelation! Stoofer/massive had a role? Stoofer/massive made night choices!! Stoofer/massive did not report that to the town? WTF!! I believe his exact responses were, "no night targets". If he, Stoofer/massive, did make choices, wouldn't that help the town! Didn't Stoofer/massive claim townie!! He didn't claim "Role Priority Changer" but was now a townie.

[KingPin]

Sorry to double post, but I felt that before anyone jumped the gun, we needed to talk about this "new" information.

This "information" from massive about Stoofer's responses will be hard to apply, as we have no idea what he is/was thinking. However, this is completely anti-town play and extremely scummy!

Feel free to jump in here and do your own thinking, but WTF! There is only one explanation I can think of that would make Stoof LIE about a role or night choices. I bet you all can guess what that reason is!

[Johoohno]

KingPin and DotS are now voting for me and only one of TSN or Emp is needed. Before you sentence me to death (as you all seem to be so eager to do), I'll just give you what I've got for the coming day:

I've played the way I have because I thought my role might be the tip of the tongue for the town (it seems to be powerful to be able to target switch players, with a little bit of luck and skill scum could actually end up targeting themselves). I thought that if I try to appear a bit scummy, I would avoid being night killed. However, somewhere along the way I overstepped the line (obviously) and drew all attention, instead of just some. And here I stand by the gallows, trying to give you a lead on for the next day, since my lynch seem to be inevitable. here goes:

I'm quite intrigued of how KingPin avoids speculating on who might be scum if both I and Stoofer would flip town upon death here and post before this one

Seems to me that the scum either didn't dare to make the kill last night, due to risk of being traced by redirections. Another possibility is that scum forgot to send in the kil, which is only likely if Stoof/massive is the scum. (I didn't get massive's ramblings in his last post, anyone care to explain?). I would like us to try and clear one person at a time if it is possible through the night choices, but I'm not sure this is doable. I've got the feeling that as long as there are redirectors in play the scum might avoid doing any night killings, and now relying on voting off the townies. Naturally I (target switcher) would be a better vote than Stoofer (vanilla?) for the scum.

[Johoohno]

Gaah! Missed KingPin's double posts while writing mine.

Might Stoofer's play have been a way to try and weed out scum through a trap?

Massive, give us your view of things!

[KingPin]

Man have I blown off work for the day. I just read all of day 2 and have found something that seems to point to Stoofer/massive as guilty. Bear with me.

The second thought involves revealing that I was mneme's target last night. It's possible that mneme's role and mine interacted funnily, especially if there were switchers meddling with targets.

Now, Stoofer/massive is claiming that they were the "target" of mneme on the night following our first day (N-2 if you are counting the first night as N-1, or N-1 if you are counting the first night as N-0) If there ever were a trap to be laid, this would be it! Stoofer/massive, with this knowledge could have come forward, as a good townie, and hammered mathcam. Did he do that? NO!

Did Stoofer/massive say anything at all about this even after mathcam stated the exact same thing for a second time, in a quote of himself in post 652? No. Did Stoofer/massive say anything after I called into question that exact same post on that exact same page in 653? No!

If Stoofer/massive was town, wouldn't this have been an easy lynch of lying scum? By pointing out the obvious!

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

Well. That's a really good point. Probably enough to get me to change my order.

Massive, comments?

[massive]

I apologize greatly but I am away from site through Wednesday due to a death in the family. I am sorry, but real life prevails sometimes.

[DestroyeroftheSky]

massive, sorry to hear that. :/

But I'm going to have to

Unvote

.

There was no pro-town reason for Stoofer to not have claimed his targets. He was consciously withholding information that could have helped the town.

Vote: massive

[EmpTyger]

Massive, for what it’s worth, you didn’t deserve this.

Given the hot water Stoofer got into on the first 2 pages for whether he was being completely honest with a vote rationale- I can’t believe he would be less than honest about when he became a townsperson:

Alright, I'll accept the calls for a claim.

My role is

Townie

. But what's more, I am at present the only Townie in the game. Yes, that's right. my role PM specifically says that at present there are no other Townies in the game.

The phrasing is a little odd -- it includes a synonym for "at present". I didn't think very much of this when I first read my role PM, but when Joohonho suggested that mneme might have the ability to take people's roles away, I thought that that was an explanation for the wording of my role PM; and I though Joohonho was likely to be right. Having considered the subsequent discussion, mathcam's point in particular, I am not so sure.

Vote: Mr Stoofer

. Lynch-1

Does anyone have any suggestions for tonight, assuming that game is still going? Johoohno’s judgment can’t be trusted, but I’m not sure what to do about it.

---

TSN:
Just wondering, but why, the closer the games gets towards wrapped up, do you persist in itch-inducing behavior? First it was accidentally not hammering mafia. Now, you react to massive’s new story without any doubt whatsoever. My reaction was akin to KingPin’s- why wasn’t yours?

---

KingPin:
Isn’t massive claiming to have been targeted by mneme N1? That wouldn’t contradict being mathcam being targeted by mneme N2. Not that there aren’t other issues with this last minute revelation.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I'd guessed earlier that stoofer had been rolekilled, even though he hadn't explicitly said so, so that didn't particularly surprise me. I had not noticed (or more accurately, did not recall) that he had an opportunity to catch mathcam lying if he was mneme's target. And it does sound to me like massive is claiming being targeted Night 1 (that is, the second night), as opposed to Night 0, with pointing out that stoofer spent most of day 1 implying that he had an ability.

[EmpTyger]

er,

Unvote: Mr Stoofer, vote: massive

[KingPin]

Isn’t massive claiming to have been targeted by mneme N1? That wouldn’t contradict being mathcam being targeted by mneme N2. Not that there aren’t other issues with this last minute revelation.

That is not how I read massive's statement. According to massive, he had a role and submitted targets/choices on both the 1st and 2nd night. It was only after he sent in his choices on the second night that he was informed that he was a townie. Meaning that mneme targeted him night 2 and before day 2 began. mathcam claimed that he received a message from the mod stating the same thing.

I smell all kinds of scum lies here! I typically would like to hear a response, but due to real life situations I understand waiting a little longer.

Meanwhile, Jo, did you want to comment or express your thoughts with regard to whom may be scum, if Stoof/massive is not?

[Johoohno]

I did that a long time ago (post 831) and am still waiting for your answer on that question.

However, you strike me as a possible candidate yourself too. If you are scum, I take my hat off. You've played very townly most game, and it's only these last pages that I've been starting to doubt your townmanship.

[KingPin]

I see that you have identified yourself and Emp as possible candidates. I also see that you, at that time, had not evaluated players in light of last nights results/choices. Has your opinion changed? It seems that it has, if you now suspect me. Or is this a general attempt at identifying all remaining players as possible scum?

My order of likely scum candidates:

1. Stoofer/massive
2. Jo
3. Emp or TSN (this is a tie)
4. DotS
5. KingPin
I should note that there is a HUGE drop-off of scumminess between #2 and #3.

[the silent speaker]

Vote count:

Massive 2 (DestroyeroftheSky, EmpTyger)

Not voting, but can

: KingPin, TheSweatpantsNinja

Massive is at L-1. All others are at L-3.

[EmpTyger]

I do not see myself voting for anyone other than Stoofer or massive this game.