Mini #582: Meta Mafia Mini! GAME OVER!

[DestroyeroftheSky]

Primary choice: Redirect Johoohno to Mr Stoofer
Secondary choice: Redirect EmpTyger to TheSweatpantsNinja

I'm not sure who's action, out of Jo and me, would take precedence. If it's mine, I assume Jo's targets either became 1. Stoofer and TSN, or 2. DotS and Stoofer.

1. Assuming TSN and Stoof have claimed truthfully, TSN roleblocked nobody and Stoof targeted himself and Johoono as a secondary choice to no visible effect.

2. This doesn't really make sense. Unless that would have activated and effected my secondary choice. In which case I think I would have redirected Stoofer to TSN, again to no visible effect.

If Jo's target swapping comes first, I guess I redirected Stoofer to Johoono and TSN roleblocked Johoohno. We saw in Day 2 that Jo's redirection took place despite TSN having claimed to block him.

Besides that all, I don't know why Jo would have targeted me in the first place.

I also noticed rule 10: "No choice means no action."
This could be relevant unless it's more to do with getting choices in before deadline.

[Johoohno]

Emp: DotS has been on my scum list for quite some time (as you can see in my previous posts). Furthermore he wasn't targeted last night and I don't like a player to be unwatched like that. Also, his claimed ability would be quite useful as scum.

I was also suspicious of TSN (though more before than after this night). And switching his target (which has been me, whom I know is town) seems to be a wise move, hoping he will hit scum instead.

I am really busy right now and will be for a few days. Will try to post again this weekend.

[KingPin]

Jo,

Did you not see that DotS was first on The Fonz's wagon. He also questioned me and my willingness to vote for Fonz, trying to make me put my vote(s) where my mouth was. That was just yesterday.

The day before he voted mathcam from the get-go! Are you kidding me that you still think that he is at the top of your scum list!!! This is just ridiculous!

I think that because both scum have been revealed without roles that they probably didn't have role names or the ability to target as town members target. If this is the case, then we need to seriously look at Stoofer. He is the only other player that has stated he did not make a night choice.

But the more Jo speaks the more scum feeling I get about him. I am good with either a Stoof (my preference) or a Jo lynch today.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I think its pretty apparent that scum is now one of jo or stoof. If jo is telling the truth, then I may have blocked jo, which would have prevented the mafia kill, made by him. This makes me lean toward johoohno.

[EmpTyger]

I keep coming back to Fonz’s D3 play- I don’t see any reason why Fonz wouldn’t attack Johoohno, if Johoohno were innocent.

Vote: Johoohno

Just for fun:
Stoofer:
If the last mafia isn’t Johoohno, who is it?

Johoohno:
If the last mafia isn’t Stoofer, who is it?

---

DotS:

<snip>
I also noticed rule 10: "No choice means no action."
This could be relevant unless it's more to do with getting choices in before deadline.

This was how I interpreted it too.

---

KingPin:

<snip>
I think that because both scum have been revealed without roles that they probably didn't have role names or the ability to target as town members target. If this is the case, then we need to seriously look at Stoofer. He is the only other player that has stated he did not make a night choice.
<snip>

We need to seriously look at Stoofer for other reasons, but not this one. I don’t think that Fonz can be genuinely vanilla- then there is no possible explanation for the N3 results.

[EmpTyger]

hm Noticed something interesting on reread, almost purely at random. I'm a little more curious now what response my last post will get.

[Johoohno]

Quick lunch break post:

Jo,

Did you not see that DotS was first on The Fonz's wagon. He also questioned me and my willingness to vote for Fonz, trying to make me put my vote(s) where my mouth was. That was just yesterday.

The day before he voted mathcam from the get-go! Are you kidding me that you still think that he is at the top of your scum list!!! This is just ridiculous!

Nope I missed that (I've been quite busy since work started some three weeks back, and I've been leaning a bit too much on just the night choices and results).

@ EmpTyger: Chill for a moment, please! Neither I nor Stoofer has got any votes today and it seems as we are your top suspects. Then why are you rushing on with the voting?

About your question to me, who would be mafia if Stoofer isnt that. Since last night, due to the night results, I've reevaluated TSN. And due to KingPin's information quoted above I may have to set DotS free as well (though I would like to read those posts mentioned - anyone care to direct me to them to save me some time?). And since KingPin has been town for along time in my book that leaves me with you EmpTyger.

Though I kind of leans towards Stoofer too. Since I was wrong on there only being one scum left in my reasoning yesterday he is eligible. AND he said he would be v/la some time ago (if the dates correlate that he still would be away, it is likely that he actually missed sending in the kill.

@ DotS: I haven't analyzed the night choices from last night yet, but I see that you are speculating on them on top of this page and as far as I remember, TSS said they were resolved simultaneous.

[DestroyeroftheSky]

That's a bit hard for me to comprehend. I'm not sure how the actions we've claimed for last night can be resolved simultaneously.

Jo,
I voted mathcam at the start of Day 2, later role claiming and incriminating him.
Day 3, I voted Fonz first and refused to change it. How could you miss that?

I've got some sort of a theory about the setup. I'll post it after Stoofer checks in.

[DestroyeroftheSky]

TSN, could you reconfirm your Night 3 choices?

[DestroyeroftheSky]

@ DotS: I haven't analyzed the night choices from last night yet, but I see that you are speculating on them on top of this page and as far as I remember, TSS said they were resolved simultaneous.

About this, tss explained that he resolved night actions at once, not by time stamp. (here)
I think there has to be an order that the actions are resolved once they're all received.

[KingPin]

Still waiting on Stoofer.

Can we get a mod-prod for Mr Stoofer?

[EmpTyger]

Still wanting curiously on response, although it might be time to just move on, maybe.

[the silent speaker]

Bumping past closed threads.

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

TSN, could you reconfirm your Night 3 choices?

Stoofer first, johoohno second.

[EmpTyger]

DotS:
Which do you prefer: explaining your setup theory without Stoofer, or just moving straight to a lynch of whoever?

[DestroyeroftheSky]

I can explain it. It doesn't really pin on anything Stoofer might say. It may not be particularly revelatory either, but maybe it'll give some food for thought.

I was considering that mathcam or Fonz might have had abilities, but decided that would indicate info the town could never find themselves. So I think we should assume that their roles are what they are - probably vanilla Mafia goons. But if all the Mafia are vanilla, Night 3 makes no sense.

I asked TSN to reconfirm his targets because I thought that maybe he had actually targeted Johoohno first. If he had, KingPin's target would have become Johoohno, which would explain Jo losing his vote. But TSN's confirmed this wasn't the case. So, someone has obviously lied about Night 3.

My theory about the setup might not actually hold weight, but I thought that it's possible that the town has one vanilla while scum have one powerrole. Assuming mathcam and Fonz were vanilla, this must be true given the holes in the Night 3 claims, and

perhaps

this clears Stoofer.

My concern is that assuming all scum have abilities is speculation that is more or less contrary to the confirmed information we have. Every other role we've seen killed has had a descriptive rolename. Why would scum be different?

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I prefer johoohno today. . . but I'd say its pretty evident that the scum is one of johoohno/stoofer.

[KingPin]

Stoofer alert, he is active again. Though apparently not in this game.

I prefer Stoof over Jo, but am willing to lynch both of them in whatever order.

[EmpTyger]

meh My hesitation was just another doubt because of the TSN/Fonz problem. I was curious whether TSN, who has been rather hesitant in voting, would place a quicker vote now that it's apparently Stoofer or Johoohno. But he didn't. And there's still too much against Johoohno and Stoofer, and I can't find anything else against TSN.

So... why aren't we voting for either? I mean, if there's reason to hesitate, okay, but then we should be talking about that. But it seems we're all in consensus, so what are we waiting for?

[Johoohno]

Wouldn't it be good to hear from Stoofer first since he apparantly is back on the site again?

I really don't see a townly reason to rush the voting. Sure, we're far from a lynch or lose situation, but what would happen if neither me nor stoofer is scum, then that situation isn't that far away. We do know that someone is probably meddling with the night choices (unless they are resolved in some intricate order, not understood by us yet, when they are in conflict).

Furthermore, since Fonz was lynched and proved scum and noone died last night, there is no longer any one of us totally cleared townie through night choices only.

@everyone: who's likely scum if both Jo and Stoof are lynched and turns up to be town (just preparing for the worst).

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

So... why aren't we voting for either? I mean, if there's reason to hesitate, okay, but then we should be talking about that. But it seems we're all in consensus, so what are we waiting for?

I, at least, was waiting for stoofer's input.

@everyone: who's likely scum if both Jo and Stoof are lynched and turns up to be town (just preparing for the worst).

Kingpin? This is a pretty unlikely scenario.

[KingPin]

Emp:
I wanted at least a reply from Stoofer before I voted. I realize that this is the end-game, but if Stoofer was interested in a town win, he would be here. Even if he said that he forgot about this game, IMO it wouldn't hold any water.

Jo:
DotS is an extremely unlikely candidate to be scum as well, especially considering the information that both he and I pointed out already.

[Johoohno]

@ KingPin: I was asking for a likely scum candidate, not the other way around. Who would you believe to be scum if me and Stoofer flips town on death?

[EmpTyger]

Fine, if we’re waiting on Stoofer, then let’s give him a reason to check in- and a way to proceed if he’s mafia just stalling it out.

Unvote: Johoohno. Vote: Mr Stoofer.

That’s 1. Every 24 hours, someone add another vote.

Stoofer:
You’ve got 48 hours.

[EmpTyger]

On review, actually, it seems Stoofer is only back doing listmoderation, and even that appears to be limited- mith is looking for a replacement listmod.

Unvote: Mr Stoofer

to discuss practicalities.

If he’s requesting replacement as listmod, should he be replaced out here? Perhaps- but either he hasn’t requested it or the mod hasn’t allowed it. And, even so, is that fair to a replacement? (ie: Hi, please read and comment on these 34 pages so we can go ahead and lynch you.)

My inclination is to lynch him and be done with it, but I think that’s mostly because I don’t see another reasonable option. In any case, there needs consensus.