Minvitational 8 - OVER before 611

[Kison]

Jitsu is my hero.

[Jitsu]

Yeah sorry for not reading my own role PM properly, that didn't help much. I though NK/investigation immune GF was overpowered.

Mistakes happen. Even if I had known, it would have been tough to pull out the win -- we got unlucky with the kills and Oman make a great choice that totally hosed our chances of winning.

At least we got Oman back. I was sure he was the SK after he said that Kison was the play for the day and didn't make a case for it. I did know on some level that Oman knew Kison was scum and was going for the win, but I couldn't figure out how. I did spam Guardian a couple of PMs on D3 because I was so confused and just a little frustrated (even though I knew he couldn't answer). Sorry, Guardian. <3

I really think my play in this game was pretty awful. It was my first time as GF and so I was playing to draw the cop investigation, which worked but I also drew the SK kill. I'm still amazed that I was able to get The Fonz to flip on his opinion of me from a meta (and mad I had to waste it), and also amazed I was able to get vollkan lynched so easily.

Don't be so hard on yourself. We agreed before the game started that somebody would have to get their hands dirty to get some mislynches in this game and I still believe that was necessary. You did the dirty work to start shaking things up, and you did a fantastic job of staying just far enough under the radar that the town couldn't agree on you. Plus, when you flipped, you really made me look better, I thought.

Also Jitsu, why not claim a power role? A cop and two masons is pretty strong, so it was unlikely The Fonz had one. In order for Erg0 and Billy to be lying that only left the town with one power role once Fonz claimed vanilla.

I nearly did, but I couldn't figure out who to try to counter. I do a decent job at analyzing the game, but it takes me some time -- which I didn't have. I was actually away from the computer when all the claims came out, and they were all so believable, I didn't have a lot of good choices. And I felt that Fonz did a good job baiting us into thinking he had something to claim, when he really didn't. I really was working furiously to analyze things to try to figure out what to claim, but I didn't have enough time (that part was true). I think on some level, I was afraid I'd screw up the claim and we'd be really hosed. I've never had to fakeclaim before, obviously. I'll remember that for next time.

I was actually hoping Kison would claim something since the attention drifted off of me and toward him, but to be fair to him, the plan going into D3 was for Kison to claim vanilla since he didn't pick up much attention on D2. The game balance analysis I did on D4 really did reflect my thoughts. If Fonz did have a protection/blocking role, I thought Cop + Blocker/Doc vs. Normal SK vs. GF + 2 goons was a pretty believeable setup to argue. I might have been able to believe a NK immune + investigation immune SK, but I still had to explain how you died, and I thought it was too much for Oman to have. I didn't think ANYTHING I claimed would sound very reasonable given all the other claims that were out. Honestly, I don't think it would have made a lot of difference in the end. We just got unlucky. Too many vanillas died too quickly, and with masons being able to confirm each other and a cop with an innocent on one of the other non-confirmed players, we just didn't have much wiggle room.

I really did want to win this game, but I'm not bitter. The game was fun, and other than not having the cojones to try the fakeclaim at the end (admittedly when the game was probably already lost), I take comfort in the fact that I had most of the town leaning the wrong way on me before the fakeclaim and only got caught by process of elimination in the massclaim. I set out to try to give my team a good chance to win, hold my own against some of the best players on the site, and not embarrass myself. I think I did alright. I thought Shaft.ed and Kison were great partners, and I'd be scum with them anytime.

I did smile for a while on D3 when my attempts to manipulate some incredibly skilled players actually seemed to work for a bit. And I worked crazy hard on the morning of D4 to try to discredit the masons and salvage the game. I think this setup was a tough challenge for the scum, but I'm not going to be a bad sport and whine about it -- we had our chances. Besides, I have too much respect for Guardian, Mith, and the people that nominated me to do something like that. Given the choice, I would rather play a challenging setup than a cakewalk anyway. Just being selected for this game was a supreme honor for me, and I have no regrets. It sounds cheesy I know, but I already "won" when I got selected for this game.

[Jitsu]

Also I think (myself at least) scum rested on a laurels too much and assumed we could push lurker lynches out to just coast through this thing until it blew up in our faces thanks to Oman's heroics for the town.

It's just too bad for Oman that he wasn't town

[Jitsu]

Jitsu is my hero.

Heh. Why is that?

[Jitsu]

I had some fun myself. When Kison and I were deciding who to kill N3, he said Cicero, but left the decision to me since I was second in priority order after Shaft.ed for sending in the kill. Here's what I said in the Mafia discussion thread:

Having me kill Cicero is the move I would make. But I shall let you have the final say.

Ah, Kison... Come in, come in. Please, sit down.

Kison, I have a job for you. A very important job -- for the family. As you know, our beloved godfather Shaft.ed, god rest his soul, was minding his own business at the 2006 Scummie awards when tragedy struck and cut him down in his prime. You see, in a private room, some of those cocky MafiaScum bastards had the audacity to disrepect the great Nibbler and our godfather's outstanding Nibbler-themed haikus.

Shaft.ed, of course, could not let such an affront go unpunished. After all, dishonoring Nibbler in such a way was almost as bad as calling Mama S haft.ed's special pasta dish "almost as good as Spaghetti-O's". So Shaft was forced to

strangle them with their own entrails

empty a few (dozen) clips into them

teach them the error of their ways.

Apparently, the bloodbath did not go over well with all of the other MafiaScum players there, and they have decided to hunt us down like common street rats. Rats, I tell you!

The rest of the family has decided that this deed cannot go unpunished. So the family has sent for you. You're a good guy, Kison. Very loyal to the family. Now we need your help. I want you to take that punk cop Cicero, and make him sleep with the fishes. And this should not be a silent, painless kill. I want you to kill him violently, and make him suffer. And suffer. And suffer some more. Then you can start with the real pain. Send a message to those despicable townies and let them know what happens with people mess the family. And whatever you do, don't let that Fonz punk get in your way.

Good luck, and Godspeed.

(PM sent to Guardian with kill choice: Kison will kill Cicero)

[shaft.ed]

Yeah, I agree re: enjoying the game and having a lot of fun with my scumteam. I've never even read a Jitsu game before and was very happy he was on my side. And Kison is always a blast to play with. I was actually a bit sad that CKD and Adel died so early and we offed Simenon at night. Also I've now played a multitude of games with both Adel and The Fonz and we've never shared alignment (and I've never beaten The Fonz) that's just not right.

[Oman]

I won the game for the town.

Stupid town.

[Adel]

thanks for the win!

[Jitsu]

thanks for the win!

I <3 Adel

[Erg0]

I don't know how the hell we pulled this off. At least I managed to stay alive past day 2 with a power role - I haven't done that in I don't know how long.

Will read the post-game and comment at some point in the not too distant future.

[The Fonz]

He had to have... We tried to kill Oman, suspecting he was the Vigilante, and he did not die. Since there were no protective or roleblocking roles, then I don't see what else could have resulted in that. Everything went wrong with the Oman/Shaft.ed kills.

You knew he was SK. And you got him lynched. Whilst you could have telegraphed the fact a bit less, it was powerroles rather than that which were your downfall.

I'm still really surprised you tried to discredit the masons, and not me and cicero. Cicero claimed cop when next in line to be lynched, and claimed an investigation of a corpse. To my mind, that was a LOT easier to paint in a scummy light than claimed day masons. I know there was only the tiniest sliver of doubt in my mind, and that was completely dispelled by Kison's claim.

If I'd been you, I'd have had Jitsu claim doc, and Kison claim RB with a block of me the night before. That would have muddied the waters more, I think.

I'm just glad we won this one despite my terrible play. Memo to self, never listen to cicero. It seems like every time i've had to make a call on whether to go with my gut or not in the last six months, i've called it the wrong way. In my defence, I really didn't see shaft.ed putting in a meta which looked to me like it would have taken several hours of effort to find out my alignment if he knew it already.

Shaft.ed and Jitsu's bus was really good- I just didn't see scum using such utter craplogic against one another, which made me think them both scummy, but mutually exclusive scum.

[Jitsu]

If I'd been you, I'd have had Jitsu claim doc, and Kison claim RB with a block of me the night before. That would have muddied the waters more, I think.

Lessons learned. Next time, I won't be so timid. In hindsight, I should have realized that it would have been easier to hide claiming power than not, but I was still confused about the setup.

I'm just glad we won this one despite my terrible play. Memo to self, never listen to cicero. It seems like every time i've had to make a call on whether to go with my gut or not in the last six months, i've called it the wrong way. In my defence, I really didn't see shaft.ed putting in a meta which looked to me like it would have taken several hours of effort to find out my alignment if he knew it already.

I thought you did just fine. It might be fair to say that nobody had a "killer" game, but given how ultra-conservative the play was, I think the game was a tough challenge for everyone. To your credit, you were one of the most vocal townies of the group and were one of the least conservative players. You helped keep the pressure on Shaft.ed, which eventually paid off. And all of us were kind of shocked when Shaft.ed's "reason" for the turn on you worked so well. He did a great job with that. I'm well aware of your scumhunting reputation, and I intentionally did not try to take you head on. That may have factored into my decision not to claim power on some level.

Shaft.ed and Jitsu's bus was really good- I just didn't see scum using such utter craplogic against one another, which made me think them both scummy, but mutually exclusive scum.

I did honestly screw it up at first (so I can't say it was completely planned), but making us look mutually exclusive was exactly what I was trying to do on D2 by pushing the crappy case too far. If I had fakeclaimed like I should have, it might have worked.

[cicero]

Sorry, server time, as I understand it is Central time. So deadline is midnight Central time.

[cicero]

Wrong thread. Sorry. Delete the above.

[Adel]

Sorry, server time, as I understand it is Central time. So deadline is midnight Central time.

I lol'd, thinking that we only had a short period of time to post here before you cut off conversation.

[Erg0]

@Erg0: Your comment about "The Jitsu Effect" made me laugh. Can I put that in my Wiki?

Be my guest.

This was an odd game for me, because in many ways I feel like my strategy was a success, even though my overall play really wasn't so great.

After day 1, Billy and I both managed to end up at what I felt was the right level of suspicion: high enough that we wouldn't be killed, but low enough that we wouldn't be lynched until close to endgame. I pretty much decided to focus on staying alive along with Billy so that we'd be able to confirm each other once the numbers got tight, and that obviously worked out ok.

On the other hand, my scumhunting was fairly average. I had two of the scum in my list on day 2 and was getting a stronger and stronger feeling about Kison by the end of day 3, but I lost my way with the Jitsu case and there's no telling how that would have ended up without the massclaim. As I said in the mason thread, whatever tell I used to come up with the Oman/shaft.ed and Fonz/shaft.ed pairings, I really need to stop using it. Picking Oman over Fonz at the end of day 3 was pretty much blind luck, though I had decided at that point that I wanted both to claim. Things could have been different if Fonz had claimed then, but I felt like Billy and I were on pretty solid ground with the mason claim regardless of what other roles were in the game.

I've always struggled a little with roles that involve private communication, because I tend to be an independent thinker. I think Billy's the same way, because he and I generated less than two pages of chatter for the whole game. The main value in being masons was the confirmation of alignment, I think.

This game was probably poorer for losing Adel, Sim and ckd on day 1. I'm not sure if it's a hallmark of our "era", but the cautious play pretty much took over once they were gone. I'm as guilty of this as anyone, but I'm not exactly known for my outrageous gambits so I doubt anyone's too surprised by that. I did feel through days 2 and 3 that Oman's lack of get-up-and-go was a definite tip-off that he was either a power role or some form of scum.

Oh, and finally: chalk up another success for the "congratulating the doc" tell.

[Oman]

Jitsu effect? I forgot it! Someone link me!

[Jitsu]

Jitsu effect? I forgot it! Someone link me!

Here it is. Erg0 coins the term in
post 932[/url]

[Oman]

You should post more then

You are an excellent player Jitsu, I want you to play more because of that, but don't want you to burn out.

[The Fonz]

I thought you did just fine. It might be fair to say that nobody had a "killer" game, but given how ultra-conservative the play was, I think the game was a tough challenge for everyone. To your credit, you were one of the most vocal townies of the group and were one of the least conservative players.

There was a reason for that: I figured someone had to play the JDodge/BabyJesus role here for the game to work. Since I had a strong scum feeling about shaft.ed, it made sense for it to be me. He really did seem to me to be trying to be seen to contribute without sticking his neck out. Incidentally, I can understand why shaft.ed accused me of LIPS (he was scum throwing mud against a wall) but I don't get cicero pushing the same line. My behaviour didn't fit at all with the definition of lurking in plain sight I use.

You helped keep the pressure on Shaft.ed, which eventually paid off. And all of us were kind of shocked when Shaft.ed's "reason" for the turn on you worked so well. He did a great job with that.

Yeah. Like I said, it really didn't seem likely to me that a scum would do that much homework to find out someone's alignment. The big mistake, though, was going to vollkan and not you after that, though the possibility of getting a lurkerlynch on vollkan to teach him a lesson was almost too good to pass up. I couldn't let him, of all people, lurk through.

I'm well aware of your scumhunting reputation, and I intentionally did not try to take you head on. That may have factored into my decision not to claim power on some level.

My scumhunting rep? My scumhunting is pretty poor. (And, ironically enough, the better it gets, the harder I find to articulate my reasons).

[shaft.ed]

I'm still really surprised you tried to discredit the masons, and not me and cicero. Cicero claimed cop when next in line to be lynched, and claimed an investigation of a corpse. To my mind, that was a LOT easier to paint in a scummy light than claimed day masons. I know there was only the tiniest sliver of doubt in my mind, and that was completely dispelled by Kison's claim.

Yeah I thought that might have been Jitsu's angle since he was making it look like he wanted to claim on the day of the Oman lynch. I thought he might be setting up a cicero counter-claim, which to me would have been a really ingenious way to try salvaging the game.

Also Fonz, thanks for calling me on the delayed OMGUS. I noticed after you pointed it out that I had done that before as scum. So I've removed a tell from my scum game and have a new weapon to hunt with.

[The Fonz]

Haha. No sweat. I believe i stole it from Thok or Yos or someone like that anyway.

[shaft.ed]

I guess we don't get access to the scumchat? I really wanted to see the reaction to the NKimmune godfather dying.

[Kison]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8596

[Adel]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8596

now I really wish I had lived until day 2. Damn you Oman for killing me off!