Mature Mafia: Game Over

[Werebear]

Sorry, I forget nothing happens on here but snarky comments and off-topic discussions.

Way to keep up the good work, guys.

So, how about the Giants this year?

*grin*

[armlx]

Sorry, I forget nothing happens on here but snarky comments and off-topic discussions.

Way to keep up the good work, guys.

So, how about the Giants this year?

*grin*

Nice hypocrisy....

[Adel]

armlx should put a votecount on every page votecount

werebear- 2 (DGB, armlx)
nonny-2 (Adel, Tally)
axel- 1 (nonny)
DGB- 1 (werebear)

(Axel, Logictus)

8 alive, 5 to lynch

~~~

Werebear is making me want to strangle him.

[Talitha]

So we've got 2 people with two votes. And it's been like this for a while. Could they both be scum? Possible...

Thinking about this has made me remember nonny's defence of Werebear/Phoebus when I stated suspicion about Phoebus' reasons for leaving the game. I recall she wasn't interested in listening to me, just interested in twisting my words and discrediting me.

I'm continuing my re-read slowly. I liked the post where Macros said DGB was a dirty scumbag if it was she who edited the posts.

[nonny]

I didn't twist your words, I very clearly said that it looked like you were twisting phoebus' arm to make him finall leave the game. Whether or not he was just being a bandwagon leech you did twist his arm. Way to try and make your self look better while trying to discredit me.

Still confidant axel and tally are the scum.

[Axelrod]

My week of Hell is over with, so I will be paying more attention to this now.

From what I'm currently seeing I feel a lot more confident about Tally not being scum. Not really confident about anyone else.

I'm looking at Phoebus/Werebear and then DGB and then Adel, and probably not doing any more of those.

[DrippingGoofball]

Maybe both nony and Werebear are scum... nonny especially, she's voting for the player I find towniest so far. And Werebear OMGUS'ing me, not doing much else but sit on the fence.

[Adel]

I'm not willing to vote for Werebear. Are you willing to vote for Nonny?

[DrippingGoofball]

Maybbbbbbbeeeeeee

[Adel]

I don't see anything that disproves the Werebear/Nonny theory, but I don't see anything that clearly supports it either.

How are you feeling about Axelrod? Likely town?

[DrippingGoofball]

Axelrod is on my townie town town list.

[Adel]

So, what do people think of Glork's suggestions for scum, now that we know Glork was town? At the least I'd like everyone to take a look at logicticus, and make a judgment... town or scum... ?

is there a particular reason we shouldn't also look at Axelrod?

Thats kind of interesting considering Axel was the catalyst for the lynch anyways.

And that Glork really devoted the majority of his posting against Axelrod, his focus on logic was much less intense.

Does anyone else feel a Tally/Axel/DGB group?

this is still bothering me. Tally is voting for Nonny, DGB say that she might, and judging from Axelrod's post breakdown on Nonny I think he may vote for Nonny as well.

Which means that if one townie other than myself votes for Nonny, then the path wil be clear for a Tally/Axel/DGB scum-group to get their game-winning lynch.

On the other hand, Nonny is the single most suspicious person, and based off of that I want to see her get lynched.

If not Nonny, than who should we lynch? I don't see any support (except from Nonny) for lynching Tally, Axel or DGB.

I have changed my find on this several times allready, but I'm back to thinking that if Axel, Tally, and DGB are scum then they have pretty much won, unless there is any last minute support for lynching DGB. Any takers?

[Adel]

could my scumdar be broken and Axel, Tally, and DGB are all town?

[DrippingGoofball]

Adel, Werebear seems to be missing from your assessment.

[Adel]

Adel, Werebear seems to be missing from your assessment.

I also left out logic & armlx.

The theory I have that compeates with the Axel/Tally/DGB scum group is that two of (armlx, logic, werebear) are scum with Nonny.

Please note that my vote is still on Nonny. I'm just voicing my doubts.

[Axelrod]

Phoebus/Werebear

As far as Phoebus goes, his first post of any real substance was THIS one, approximately 1 week into the game. He's basically saying that he's voting for 'cam in this post (who he was already voting for, but that was "random" and now he's sticking with it). His reasoning is hard to decipher as he appears to be saying several things at once, but the jist appears to be (1) 'cam is being overdefensive, (2) a lynch of 'cam gives us the most information, and (3) his gut. And what I just said makes his post sound much better/clearer than it actually was. Most of it was rambling and incoherent.

He sticks on 'cam for basically the whole day until the Raj. wagon reaches a critical majority and he jumps over to that one with THIS vote. Total wagon.

Phoebus get some minor pro-town points for his fatalism in THIS series of posts (457-463). Basically he's saying he's not enjoying the game and wouldn't mind being lynched. I'm not sure how much credit to give him for that, since he didn't really get serious about it, but it's somewhat less likely that a scum under basically no pressure would offer himself up like that.

The next most interesting thing is when Macros comes clean about his Mod. duty. and a quick wagon starts to form on him. I think it's me, 'cam, and Glork in quick successtion, and Phoebus - who had absolutely no problems with waggoning Raj. responds to this wagon with "oh dear....have none of you ever played with Macros before?"

It's odd because it both is and isn't a defense. He doesn't really say anything about Marcos, about what Macros did, or what's going on, he just says "oh dear." The logical way to read this is "hey people, Macros is a terrible player and he is quite capable of making a terrible move kind editing a townie's death post and removing references to his alignment because he is so terrible, so the fact that he has done this is no evidence of his scumitude and I do not think this is a valid reason to be voting for him. I think we should be voting for Raj (the person I am voting for) for these most excellent reasons....)

Of course, in reality he has said nothing like that. This is one of those posts which makes me want to say "at least one of Phoebus or Macros is scum" because Phoebus seemed to be assuming Macros's towniness in that post which he really had no business assuming.

Day 2 Phoebus opens with a vote on 'Cam before 'Cam posts that he is dead. Then he basically whines that he has lost interest in the game and he will just wagon anyone who we say, and/or try to find a replacement for himself. That was more or less it. He never voted anyone (living) on Day 2 or made any kind of case, or even remarked on other people's cases. He was literally useless.

So I see one minorly townish thing in (apparently) being willing to die, and not much else.

Werebear picks up HERE. Basically, his opening position is to agree with (me?) and the idea that people who have currently claimed no Mod. powers should be more suspect than people with Mod. powers.

He goes on further to say that DGB and Glork are his top two within that group with a preference for DGB. Doesn't really say

why

he prefers DGB, just that he does.

HERE he asks what I would consider to be a useless question - how are we going to know when the game is over? I would consider Werebear smart enough to think that one through on his own without really needing to ask the thread.

As far as suspicious posts go THIS one jumps out at me first. Adel made a remark about the "scum" killing Mathcam. Logic asks Adel how she knows this and thinks it's a tell. Nonny agrees with Logic. Then Werebear posts this, which says that he was assuming it was a vig who killed Mathcam and he doesn't like how sure Adel seems that it was "scum." It's the bandwaggoning tone of this post that I don't like first, and the way he threw in that he "mentally" had checked off 'cam's death as Vig., but he had neglected to mention it until this point. HE doesn't vote for Adel, but appears poised to go along with an Adel wagon should one form. So it also appears a bit opportinistic to me.

Werebear contributes essentially nothing over the next 2 or so weeks, and finally comes with a Vote: DGB. DGB has the most votes (including her own at this point). Werebear's reasoning is still the "vote for someone without Mod. powers" one, and doesn't appear to be much more.

He was not around for/did not comment at all about the Glork wagon.

Next day, he opens with what I consider is another suspicious post, which is HERE. Now he says that, because Glork died and was town (and had no Mod. powers) he no longer thinks that the people without Mod. powers are more likely to be scum. I don't follow this at all. We already had people die who apparently had no Mod. powers (zu_Faul and Raj), so why would one more make you suddenly change your opinion?

What he seems to say later is that he had this idea that "possibly players with no mod powers were scum." and when Glork died with no mod powers and was not scum, that theory went out the window.

My problem is: how could Werebear possibly have actually thought "players with no mod powers were scum." That would have meant that the entire scum team had exposed themselves on Day 2 - Glork, DGB, and Adel. The "theory" that I posited was NEVER that ALL the people who had no mod powers were scum. It was that AT LEAST ONE scum was in that group of people who claimed to have no mod powers. What Werebear is claiming he was considering was crazy.

In THIS post Werebear makes another questionable assertion that he thinks there are only 2 Mafia in this game. Which also seems crazy to me. 3 Mafia in a 12 player mini is practically the standard, and this game started with 14 players. Why would you think 2 out of 14 seemed right?

Werebear does some more irrelevant speculation and makes another obvious point (about how, if there are 3 scum and we mis-lynch today, then we lose, unless there's a vig. who hits a scum tonight).

Then there's another interesting sequence. In THIS post, he expresses suspicion of DGB and Adel. Thinks they are all chummy-chummy with each other. He proceeds to Vote for DGB in his next post (incidentally, DGB just voted for him).

Then THIS - which is strange coming from someone already voting for DGB. One way to read this is "if you are town, you aren't posting like it and you need to shape up!"

Then THIS. Now, somewhat abruptly, Werebear seems to have switched his focus from DGB to Armlx. Armlx just voted for him (I'm sensing a pattern) and he says they are his "top 2" candidates. Except he thinks only one of them is actually scum, and the other is probably just a misguided townie.

Why would you say that? Why couldn't/shouldn't they both be scum from your standpoint? I don't see why you would declare them your top two and then instantly say that you think only one of your top two is actually scum. I'll also note he doesn't actually change his vote here despite saying that he thinks Armlx is more likely scum.

Lat thing he does is defend Phoebus' actions with some very WIFOMY logic - who would you expect to hate this game more, a townie or a Mafia?

I'm thinking of moving Werebear into my #2 scum slot now, probably right behind Nonny. I just don't get a lot of his logic/thinking this game.

[Axelrod]

Adel, Werebear seems to be missing from your assessment.

I also left out logic & armlx.

The theory I have that compeates with the Axel/Tally/DGB scum group is that two of (armlx, logic, werebear) are scum with Nonny.

Please note that my vote is still on Nonny. I'm just voicing my doubts.

Well, aside from knowing that it isn't an "Axel/Tally/DGB" scumgroup, I am much more thinking along the lines of your second grouping.

[Talitha]

Hmm, where nonny says that Axel and me are THE scum (post 1329 above).. am I reading too much into it that if nonny is scum, there might only be two of them?

Because that is a tie to Werebear, who also said there would only be two scum in this game.

But a nonny/Werebear group would mean that logic isn't scum which I have a hard time believing. (Unless he's SK or something).

[Talitha]

Well, aside from knowing that it isn't an "Axel/Tally/DGB" scumgroup, I am much more thinking along the lines of your second grouping.

Ditto.

[Adel]

I think trying to argue that there are only two scum could be tied with trying to convince the town that we aren't in lynch-or-lose.

Why can't logic be scum with Werebear & Nonny? Can he be scum with just one of them? Which one?

[Talitha]

He can't be scum with both Werebear and nonny if there are only two scum. Sorry, I thought that was clearly implied.

[Talitha]

The thing was, nonny hasn't ARGUED there are only two scum, she just sort of implied it. And with me believing that she actually does have that information (i.e. number of scum), it made me wonder.

[Adel]

The only way I can think of there only being two mafia is if the mod (ha!) anticipated major scum shenanigans. I don't think that is very probable.

[armlx]

Or the mod played to the 10-2 is unwinnable meta. Adding an extra day in a vanilla game seems fairish to help balance it.

[Adel]

Or the mod played to the 10-2 is unwinnable meta. Adding an extra day in a vanilla game seems fairish to help balance it.

explain the extra kill day 2 then.