Mafia 82: International (Game Over)

[Cephrir]

They're not both hypothetical. Cephrir really did say he hopes scum gets in the treaty, which came off to me as his being scum itself. What would you think of me if I said "I hope scum kills Battle Mage"?

But that's not the same thing. Sure, I probably houldn't have said it out loud, but I don't get how that's a tell.

There are not many scenarios that I can think of where town should be hoping out loud that scum does something specific. It's not a scum direction per se, but it still encourages scum to act in a certain way, which probably won't be beneficial to town.

I know I'm going out of context, but this would also encourage specific scum actions: Let's say I'm the doctor and I announced out loud that I wanted to protect nhat. If scum has a roleblocker, he or she might as well block me while scum offs him. If nhat is scum and/or scum does not have a roleblocker, they will get rid of me that night unless a more dangerous (to them) power role shows up.

Noting that X might allow us to find scum better (X being scum in the pact) != declaring who you want t protect when you're the doctor. They are completely different things.

[MafiaMann]

Again, where have I said that this is a reason for you to be scum? You're trying hard to make this black and white. You're to be watched, but that doesn't equate by far to being actually scummy. You're in the spotlight now, too late for second thoughts, no?

I'm tackling the issue now, in case, later on, you decide to try and vote me, for starting a Pact, which, in 50 pages time, somehow causes the town to go wrong.

BM

And you think I could trust you (or anyone else in the town for that matter) not to call me out on such complete BS?

if not, why are you bring up said 'complete BS' as a scenario now?

BM

So BM you have no regrets about our pact idea and you feel its been helpful beacause it has caused the conversation is that what your saying

[armlx]

So BM you have no regrets about our pact idea and you feel its been helpful beacause it has caused the conversation is that what your saying

Not to answer his question, but I like the pact a lot for the discussion it gave.

[StrangerCoug]

They're not both hypothetical. Cephrir really did say he hopes scum gets in the treaty, which came off to me as his being scum itself. What would you think of me if I said "I hope scum kills Battle Mage"?

But that's not the same thing. Sure, I probably houldn't have said it out loud, but I don't get how that's a tell.

It's not the biggest offense in this game in my eyes, so don't worry too much.

There are not many scenarios that I can think of where town should be hoping out loud that scum does something specific. It's not a scum direction per se, but it still encourages scum to act in a certain way, which probably won't be beneficial to town.

I know I'm going out of context, but this would also encourage specific scum actions: Let's say I'm the doctor and I announced out loud that I wanted to protect nhat. If scum has a roleblocker, he or she might as well block me while scum offs him. If nhat is scum and/or scum does not have a roleblocker, they will get rid of me that night unless a more dangerous (to them) power role shows up.

Noting that X might allow us to find scum better (X being scum in the pact) != declaring who you want t protect when you're the doctor. They are completely different things.

I know, but I bring them both up to show that they can both backfire when scum sees it.

[maxwellhouse]

bleh sorry about abandoning ship guys, but i simply don't think i can do this anymore. i try to read and catch up with everything, but skimming 4 pages a night doesn't really help me come up with anything. plus life is getting really busy at the moment, so i think mini-games are all i can really handle right now.

mod: sorry, but can i be replaced?

thank you.

[Korts]

It's not a scum direction per se, but it still encourages scum to act in a certain way, which probably won't be beneficial to town.

Please try to explain to me why having scum act a certain way doesn't enhance scumhunting. I mean, to a simple guy like me, it seems the town should be overjoyed that the scum all act one way, no?

Again, where have I said that this is a reason for you to be scum? You're trying hard to make this black and white. You're to be watched, but that doesn't equate by far to being actually scummy. You're in the spotlight now, too late for second thoughts, no?

I'm tackling the issue now, in case, later on, you decide to try and vote me, for starting a Pact, which, in 50 pages time, somehow causes the town to go wrong.

BM

And you think I could trust you (or anyone else in the town for that matter) not to call me out on such complete BS?

if not, why are you bring up said 'complete BS' as a scenario now?

BM

Oh, haha. Read the quote pyramid you're quoting. You brought up the scenario, I just commented on it. Seriously, BM, you're better than this.

unvote, vote: Battle Mage

Misrepresentation and the lot.

[Cass]

Hm, I had not even noticed that armlx was pushing wagons without putting his vote on them... explains my bad feeling I guess.
I'm curious if he has an explanation.

FoS Armlx

Why only a FoS, though, then?
Cautious bussing?

Yes,it's bussing, how'd you figure it out?? [/sarcasm]

It was only a FoS because I was curious about his explanation / defense:

After unvoting nhat, I figuredmy first intuitions about the pact were most likely the most accurate and that Dynamo's action was the scummiest thing so far.

I find this unconvincing, he fails to adress why he pushed wagons later without voting, if he apparantly didn't find those people very scummy at all. So,

Unvote
Vote Armlx

I like the case on Dynamo too, and I will keep my eye on nhat. The wagon on myself feels a bit vague, seems to me like a lot of different people who don't agree with one of my votes or FoSes - or am I missing something? Either, I have admitted to voting for flimsy reasons myself, so I suppose I shouldn't complain if others do the same.

[Erratus Apathos]

nhat was being voted for being unreasonable. He became reasonable, my vote had no backing.

You voted nhat for misrepresenting PeterGriffin, but then decided he didn't misrepresent PeterGriffin because you liked his attack on me? Not buying it.

Also while looking through his posts I noticed that he's been voting Dynamo for most of the day, but otherwise has completely ignored Dynamo. This is another solid scumtell and I'd be happy with an armlx lynch today.

How is this a scum tell?

Townies do not ignore they player they're voting for.

[Battle Mage]

Again, where have I said that this is a reason for you to be scum? You're trying hard to make this black and white. You're to be watched, but that doesn't equate by far to being actually scummy. You're in the spotlight now, too late for second thoughts, no?

I'm tackling the issue now, in case, later on, you decide to try and vote me, for starting a Pact, which, in 50 pages time, somehow causes the town to go wrong.

BM

And you think I could trust you (or anyone else in the town for that matter) not to call me out on such complete BS?

if not, why are you bring up said 'complete BS' as a scenario now?

BM

Oh, haha. Read the quote pyramid you're quoting. You brought up the scenario, I just commented on it. Seriously, BM, you're better than this.

unvote, vote: Battle Mage

Misrepresentation and the lot.

*Facepalm*

Notice that Korts claimed i was 'scummy' but didnt give any reasons, falling on the same pedastal as you- that by participating alot, i am more likely to be scum, despite failing to come up with any real scumtells from those posts.

BM, BM, don't try to misrepresent me. I never said you were scummy, at least not in this game so far. All I said was that I'm gonna keep my eye on you for a while, because this pact's impact on the game could've been both pro- and anti-town, and you were the one who started discussion about it.

That's the post you are looking for. Now try again.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Again, where have I said that this is a reason for you to be scum? You're trying hard to make this black and white. You're to be watched, but that doesn't equate by far to being actually scummy. You're in the spotlight now, too late for second thoughts, no?

I'm tackling the issue now, in case, later on, you decide to try and vote me, for starting a Pact, which, in 50 pages time, somehow causes the town to go wrong.

BM

And you think I could trust you (or anyone else in the town for that matter) not to call me out on such complete BS?

if not, why are you bring up said 'complete BS' as a scenario now?

BM

So BM you have no regrets about our pact idea and you feel its been helpful beacause it has caused the conversation is that what your saying

Regrets? Never. My only regret is that we couldn't properly try it out. But, nonetheless, it has been a very protown exercise, given that discussion is always protown. But that's not what i was saying to Korts. My concern with him, was that later on in the game, he would turn around and say the pact was bad, and because it was so long ago, ignorance would prevail. Which is why i'm trying to commit him to an opinion now. Notice how jumpy he is?

BM

BM

[Korts]

In order to keep the thread relatively clean, I'm not gonna quote the pyramid now.

BM, I said you deserve attention for starting the pact. You say that I said I'd possibly use the starting of the pact as a scumtell against you. Hence the misrepresentation. Don't tell me you're this thick.

On a different note, does anybody else find Cass suspicious for voting Armlx when pressured for only FoSing him?

[Battle Mage]

In order to keep the thread relatively clean, I'm not gonna quote the pyramid now.

BM, I said you deserve attention for starting the pact. You say that I said I'd possibly use the starting of the pact as a scumtell against you. Hence the misrepresentation. Don't tell me you're this thick.

On a different note, does anybody else find Cass suspicious for voting Armlx when pressured for only FoSing him?

You still aren't making sense. What sort of attention do i deserve Korts? Are you saying i deserve more attention than a guy who has only made 1 post so far? Why would i deserve more attention than any of the other players here!?

BM

[armlx]

I like the case on Dynamo too

So.... you are voting for me because you disagree with my defense, but agree with my defense in that Dynamo is really scummy?

You voted nhat for misrepresenting PeterGriffin, but then decided he didn't misrepresent PeterGriffin because you liked his attack on me? Not buying it.

I figured nhat was just being unreasonable in general, which is not a scum tell usually, as opposed to being deliberately misrepresentative.

Townies do not ignore they player they're voting for.

1. You haven't shown me how its a scum tell.

2. Everything that I have on Dynamo I've said already. The pact hop was EXTREMELY scummy, possibly worse then vote hopping someone like that.

[raider8169]

2. Everything that I have on Dynamo I've said already. The pact hop was EXTREMELY scummy, possibly worse then vote hopping someone like that.

I am in the process of rereading and I just got past that part. I didnt see how his change in thought was that scummy. It is something I am keeping in mind while I finish reading but it doesnt seem like a big deal to me.

[armlx]

I am in the process of rereading and I just got past that part. I didnt see how his change in thought was that scummy. It is something I am keeping in mind while I finish reading but it doesnt seem like a big deal to me.

No, I'm talking about Dynamo trying to /in on the pact.

[Korts]

You still aren't making sense. What sort of attention do i deserve Korts? Are you saying i deserve more attention than a guy who has only made 1 post so far? Why would i deserve more attention than any of the other players here!?

BM

You deserve attention because you proposed a plan that could tilt the game either way based on the players inside the pact. Also, I didn't say others deserve less attention, just for other things.

unvote

'Cause you genuinely believe what you say. Which isn't a good thing if you don't understand what you're replying to.

On to a different matter then.

vote: Cass

Her reaction to being pressured on the armlx-FoS issue is telling IMO. First the denial, then the vote on armlx, for a weak reason.

[raider8169]

I am in the process of rereading and I just got past that part. I didnt see how his change in thought was that scummy. It is something I am keeping in mind while I finish reading but it doesnt seem like a big deal to me.

No, I'm talking about Dynamo trying to /in on the pact.

Post 58 right? He said "ohh ohh", so I assume that to mean he understood something he didnt before and then in the same post he did the "/treaty" thing.

If not I am sure I will come across that point sooner or later.

[skitzer]

maxwellhouse and Snaps_The_Pirate have requested replacement. cris150 and OpposedForce will be up for replacement too if they don't post by tomorrow.

Vote Count Eleven of Day One

(5) Cass: Netlava, Veronica13, OpposedForce, Lowell, Korts
(3) Erratus Apathos: nhat, DynamoXI, Cephrir
(3) DynamoXI: armlx, Battle Mage, hasdgfas
(2) armlx: Erratus Apathos, Cass
(1) Battle Mage: Untitled
(1) nhat: animorpherv1
(1) StrangerCoug: Snaps_The_Pirate
(1) Untitled: cerebus3
(1) animorpherv1: Cyberbob

(8) Not Voting: raider8169, cris150, markfg, maxwellhouse, Citizen Karne, MafiaMann, earthworm, animorpherv1

With 26 alive, it takes 14 votes to lynch!

A deadline will be instated when 7 or more players are red or darkred, or one will automatically be set on September 18th, 2008.

Last Post Count Eleven of Day One

Key:
Green - posted in last 24 hours
Blue - posted in last 48 hours
Olive - Posted in last 72 hours
Red - Posted more than 72 hours ago, prodded
Dark Red - Requiring Replacement
Dark Blue - Vacation/Limited Access

Korts

Battle Mage

Lowell

armlx

StrangerCoug

Cephrir

MafiaMann

Cass

Erratus Apathos

raider8169

markfg

Netlava

Citizen Karne

DynamoXI

Cyberbob

hasdgfas

Veronica13

earthworm

nhat

Untitled

OpposedForce

cris150

cerebus3

animorpherv1

maxwellhouse

Snaps_The_Pirate

Prodding nhat and earthworm.
9 people are currently red or dark red. That means a

deadline

is set for

September 12th, 2008

[Cephrir]

9 people are being prodded or replaced = deadline? That's weird.

[Cyberbob]

That seems reasonable to me. I know I could definitely be posting more, which is really annoying.

The problem is there isn't a lot in the last couple of pages which stands out. Most of the scumtells being brought up don't strike me as being particularly strong, especially when I like my vote on Animorphperv1 so much.

Speaking of which, I have yet to be given an actual reason for why his being replaced makes a difference.

[nhat]

Still here, but will be busy with work for the next two days. I'll have a good lookover at that time.

[markfg]

Alright, finally caught up with this.

Going to post some player thoughts, that stick out in my mind still need to take a reread and take notes to straighten out my thoughts to post more.

Battle Mage, interesting start with the pre-game treaty proposal which sparked a ton of discussion early on. Aggressive play style it seems I believe pro-town.

Raider8169, not sure he seems to always be catching up with the thread unsure of him.

Cass, after placing the FoS on armlx, Korts mentioned cautious bussing and then after that Cass changed it to a vote, Cass responded that it was due to a lack of defense for armlx's pushing wagons but not actually voting on them. Will look into this more with my second reading.

Korts, seems to be very level headed with logical statements don't see anything that rubs me as scummy.

DynamoXI, I do not like the feel of his rolefishing on Animorphev1's claim about Mafiamann. Also he seemed to get defensive when hasdgfas called it scummy. Would like to hear more about it from DynamoXI, as for now I believe it warrants a vote.

Vote: DynamoXI

[Citizen Karne]

I'm here; I play tennis for my school and have had two meets in a row. I am nearly finished however, and you can likely expect a post tomorrow. I

do

apologize for taking so long.

[armlx]

Also he seemed to get defensive when hasdgfas called it scummy.

Defensiveness isn't scummy. His other actions are though.

[skitzer]

JohnQPublic0 replaces cerebus3.
Also, cris150 and OpposedForce have fallen into darkred status.