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[Trendall]

I was working under the assumption that the setup is two doctors, a doctor enabler, and some sort of other pr like cop or tracker or whatever. Rolecop would make perfect sense. I would have said that all those claims are town, but the gunsmith thing is surprising so now I don't know.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Well this was a read

[Hopkirk]

Flubber not checking Derp is insanely odd play if Flubber is town. If Derp is scum then he's far more likely to be scum fakeclaiming doc than he is to be a scum doc. I don't get how Flubber, after we vote out PJ n1, would think 'that must be a scum doc, not just a scum fakeclaiming doc' at 100% likelihood rather.

I could believe 'Derp is just scum that's getting voted out tomorrow so not worth a check' but not 'either town doc or scum doc, no way he's just scum fakeclaiming a different role.'

[Hopkirk]

Given we've had more than enough claims for a reasonably balanced setup, this seems like massclaim time.

[Hopkirk]

Rolecop makes a lot of sense for scum to have to deal with doctor/doctor/enabler.

[Hopkirk]

flubber, if u were a role cop and have suspicions on these prs, why didn't u just like ... check them night 1 and 2?

There's no reasonable reason not to have done this, agreed.

Anyway

HARDCLAIM ROLE COP

What are your results so far

I have an investigation on staarling

Explain in a lot more depth because you're still the scummiest person here bar mayyyybe Johnny.

Or is flub a maf goon willing to 1v1 and for in order to get town PR derp eliminated?

as opposed to just...killing the town pr derp?

Because Flubber is under fire.
Because Flubber wants to vote out town derp.
Because getting rid of Derp today then me tomorrow means tomorrow is 7 alive with 3 scum. After the Flubber lethal that's 2 scum in 5. Scum trading a scum that's already the biggest wagon for a power role (and the obvious kill that follows) is a great deal at this stage of the game.

by far the best claim so far is rolecop bc its actually ... provable

Its provable if he has a way to prove it. He doesn't because he hasn't got any results so it hasn't been proven. The only way to prove it here would be getting a result on a scum role fakeclaiming. Absolutely not provable and you lose points for saying it is.

still 4 prs

What exactly do you think unprecedented means?

So looking at the last 10 13p games in the archives (link below) we have town prs of 4,6,4,5,4,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,5

That 5 at the end includes - unlimited gunsmith, gunsmith backup, unlimited vigilante, odd night tracker, Novice vanilla cop vs mafia 1 shot doctor, mafia goon, and even-night watcher.

And those are without even considering enabler is negative utility.

One shot gunsmith
? Rolecop
Macho Enabler
Doctor

Is ridiculously underpowered. Unless there's another claim then either Derp is town or we've got the weakest set of power roles in years.
Doc/Doc/Macho Doc Enabler/One-shot Gunsmith is roughly what I was considering as a reasonable setup at the start of d2 (2 docs + some light investigative)

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=29549

yeah I have a modifier

What is it?

[Hopkirk]

Johnny should be the next claim, but everyone should be claiming here. This is a big part of why I said leave Derp, his role gets resolved by setup balance considerations when we massclaim. Currently, he's looking like definite town as required for balance.

[Glitch]

I have a modifier I haven't revealed yet but my one shot is already used up so scum have no reason to kill me tonight since my role is no longer a threat. Flubber should role cop me tonight and reveal what my modifier is tomorrow and then I'll confirm.

[Glitch]

It would be great if someone else has an ability to confirm the roll top with an identity that has not been fully revealed yet. I know that math claim is important right now so I do not oppose that but if anyone has a modifier or some sort of detail to their role that they can not out during mass claim then we can force Flubber into a WIFOM between me and the other person. If Flubber truly is scum then he could just kill me tonight and have that beat his way out having two roll- cop me. The more I think about it though, the more it doesn't really help. Sorry I'm thinking through this and doing text to tight while I drive. As I'm thinking through it even if we confirm him as roll cop I don't know that it helps much with his alignment because I've never seen a town roll cop only scum role cop. I'm down with trying to confirm him as role cop anyways but even if we do I don't know that it just means he's lock town.

[Glitch]

Role cop***

[Hopkirk]

It would be great if someone else has an ability to confirm the roll top with an identity that has not been fully revealed yet. I know that math claim is important right now so I do not oppose that but if anyone has a modifier or some sort of detail to their role that they can not out during mass claim then we can force Flubber into a WIFOM between me and the other person. If Flubber truly is scum then he could just kill me tonight and have that beat his way out having two roll- cop me. The more I think about it though, the more it doesn't really help. Sorry I'm thinking through this and doing text to tight while I drive. As I'm thinking through it even if we confirm him as roll cop I don't know that it helps much with his alignment because I've never seen a town roll cop only scum role cop. I'm down with trying to confirm him as role cop anyways but even if we do I don't know that it just means he's lock town.

Scum role cop really makes sense with an enabler in the game that mafia want to hit as soon as possible. It makes more sense than town rolecop just being thrown in. I don't really see the point testing over lethaling unless you want to lethal Johnny today or something.

[Hopkirk]

Like scum rolecop is one of the only three counterplays to double docs that I can see in the allowed list for normal: strongman/roleblocker being the others. Scum rolecop is very likely to exist in the setup. Town rolecop would essentially do little except allow follow the cop (cop finding doctor) or find strongman/rb scum roles tbh

[derp]

also derp said u should either have yeeted me yesterday or believe in derp, because choosing to pursue something as illogical as thinking derp would cc a doc claim d1 as scum is something makes no sense, only reason to misyeet derp would be due to policy which should have happened yesterday

See this doesn't sit well with me. You are saying it wad a good idea D3 for us to lynch you. That it was good strategy.

But if memory serves, you specifically threw shade at me for relentlessly being focused on you and wanting to lynch you D2. Which is it?

You can't say it was good strategy to lynch you D2 now when before you said I wasn't towny for wanting to lynch you D2.

that is not what derp said

derp said day 2 that derp thought it was all fine and reasonable for bug guy to want to yeet the cc, but then as the day progressed derp felt like glitchy did nothing but focus on this so derp said that while he thinks the stance is reasonable he also thinks it would be very easy for scum to feign activity by pushing policy but that derp still thought u were more likely to be town, then today derp early on said that derp thought glitch day 1 was town but his day 2 was more on the null side because he seemed to ignore everything else that happen day 2, then dear derp started to read the game again and then said that derp actually just realised that this was not the case and that glitch had commented on more stuff day 2 than derp thought

as for yeeting derp, derp said this on d2. derp said that he understands the policy yeet and that he will not fight it too much he also said that if u do not yeet derp day 2 then u have to trust dear derp as town because otherwise derp could be set up as a misyeet later if u just leave him as an unsolved cc. there has not been any real attempts at solving derp, in fact ur read on derp was that that derp is high efforting + u ended up doing the exact same thing as derp by looking at same place (the final day wagons), but "ur gut" tells u that derp is scum in other words its not based on anything whatsoever and u having derp as ur top scum is based on nothing but a policy

dear and very innocent derp understands that derp might be yeeted today, but when there is no attempt at solving or engaging dear derp and it is based on nothing but policy AND dear derp is getting "scumread due to gut for high efforting" (lol read btw) then poor derp cant defend himself stuff like that especially not when we already talked about this day 2, so when u push this early d3 especially when u have so many null reads, its a low posting game with so there is a need to hear from a lot of players, then u are not being a very good townie if all u want to do is push a policy early on and just let everyone else coast.

dear derp does not care enough to guide u, but derp will tell u that if u are town then this is the point where u actually get some of the less commited players to commit to get a reads on them especially when u have so lackluster reads. what derp is essentially saying that if all u have is a policy wagon then u should push that the closer we get to deadline and actually use the rest of the day to prod the dirty players and to actual get reads on them, because otherwise ure just delaying the inevitable

[derp]

There's scum in {hop, me, derp} off of 4 pr towns being unprecedented for normals

this is just factually wrong dear flubbernugget

[derp]

Well this was a read

stop coasting sir johnny boy

[JohnnyFarrar]

Impromptu mass claim i like. I'm vt. Trendall next.

UNVOTE:

I think derp, if town, mechanically is too important right now. More actual thoughts once massclaim is over.

[Flubbernugget]

I have a modifier I haven't revealed yet but my one shot is already used up so scum have no reason to kill me tonight since my role is no longer a threat. Flubber should role cop me tonight and reveal what my modifier is tomorrow and then I'll confirm.

i can confirm d4. i'm even night

[Flubbernugget]

Explain in a lot more depth because you're still the scummiest person here bar mayyyybe Johnny.

I really didn't expect there to be any more PR's than there were so I figured my shots might be able to spook one of the null slots into fakeclaiming

[Flubbernugget]

johnny would have been a good null to look into as well but I think there was a better chance of getting a more pure reaction trying to spook a newer player

[Flubbernugget]

It would be great if someone else has an ability to confirm the roll top with an identity that has not been fully revealed yet. I know that math claim is important right now so I do not oppose that but if anyone has a modifier or some sort of detail to their role that they can not out during mass claim then we can force Flubber into a WIFOM between me and the other person. If Flubber truly is scum then he could just kill me tonight and have that beat his way out having two roll- cop me. The more I think about it though, the more it doesn't really help. Sorry I'm thinking through this and doing text to tight while I drive. As I'm thinking through it even if we confirm him as roll cop I don't know that it helps much with his alignment because I've never seen a town roll cop only scum role cop. I'm down with trying to confirm him as role cop anyways but even if we do I don't know that it just means he's lock town.

I would think the correct play for a town derp here is to protect you, so idk why you're concerned about dying

[Flubbernugget]

maybe it's just a pet idea on my part but I still feel like the investigations in this game are set up to throw a lot of false positives on alignment

[Flubbernugget]

In the last mini game that ended that I was in, there was like 5......

Hold up lemme go make sure that's correct.

Yeah, 5.

Town 1-Shot Bulletproof Vengeful
Town Novice 3-Shot Vigilante
Town Ascetic Indecisive Doctor Neighbour
Town Role Watcher Neighbour
Town Combined Vanilla Cop Mailman

yep.

my grasp of normal meta seems to be incredibly...dated

[derp]

hm dear derp is not that convinced flubber is necessarily scum, so derp just wants to add that if we do indeed yeet derp today derp does not want people to blindly push for a trade on flubber tomorrow

anyway flubber lets ignore claims for a moment, what are ur reads?

[Trendall]

I am vanilla townie

[Noraa]

I have a modifier I haven't revealed yet but my one shot is already used up so scum have no reason to kill me tonight since my role is no longer a threat. Flubber should role cop me tonight and reveal what my modifier is tomorrow and then I'll confirm.

i can confirm d4. i'm even night

No. you do not do this and waste a role cop if you are town. Im not sure how to confirm you are town atm but wasting a role cop on Glitch to confirm a damn modifier is absolutely stupid.