Monty Python's Mafia Circus Game Over

[elvis_knits]

I do think that including a scummy person (Chenhsi) on your scum list, but never actually putting them to the top is pretty scummy. It's like distancing without having to buss them.

[Muerrto]

Don't have much time to post till later just popping in to say the bridge keeper targetted me:

Can you talk at night? No.

Have you sent in a nightkill? No.

Was chenshi's alignment the same as yours? No.


Kind of some weird questions and slightly repetitive. Also, PF, STILL no cigs? Man...

Will re-read later and post.

[The Internet]

I give you not a number list, but your own quote. Chew on it.

Alright I'm back, and here's my scum list
Muerrto (oddly selective scumhunting patterns, keeps trying to dodge questions with semantics)
TheSweatpantsNinja (Wishy washy votes which appear to attempt to start or join bandwagons)
chenshi(what else? lurking and contradictions)

Of those, I think Chenshi is the least scummy,but still must be considered. I also would not discount Chenshi being mafia, because he be not listening or being bussed. Before you leap at me for not listing K7, I was unclear about he did N1, but It has been clarified for me. Also, to those listing me on their list, have you read my posts in my defense? Also, to PF specifically, what do you mean by the softclaim?

The reason I say he was the least scummy was because there were so many other explanations for his actions other than being scum, while for the other two there were fewer options. And chenshi did move up my list later on, but as I said, it was too late.

[farside22]

This is your last statement in regards to chenshi's lynch.

Seeing whats happened so far, I think it is adviseable to lynch chenshi today. However, he is at L-1, and though he is the best candidate for lynching, I feel that he has not dropped any major scumtells and not that many monor ones, so I'm not comfortable hammering him.

Wishy washy at best. My vote stands.

[Lord Gurgi]

Albatross!

Vote: Azimuth

. Blah blah. Done this already, see previous reasons.

Albatross!

[TheSweatpantsNinja]

I do think that including a scummy person (Chenhsi) on your scum list, but never actually putting them to the top is pretty scummy. It's like distancing without having to buss them.

I agree. Especially the saying he's "scummy enough for a vote, but not enough for a hammer" line. I don't like that at all.

Vote the Internet.

[PokerFace]

Well that's funny Ninja

. Yesterday you were pretty confident in what the bridge keeper said about SpyreX. The BK investigated the internet on night 2, or that's at least what the Internet claimed. You trust his night 1 investigation but not his night 2.

What's with these differing views considering that point?

I am a little undecided on the internet myself.

@The Internet,

Seeing whats happened so far, I think it is adviseable to lynch chenshi today. However, he is at L-1, and though he is the best candidate for lynching, I feel that he has not dropped any major scumtells and not that many monor ones, so I'm not comfortable hammering him.

So you think he should be lynched, but you don't want to be on the wagon?

I usually see posts like this when a scumo is trying to stay off a wagon he knows as town. This way he can encouraged townies to lynch other townies without looking bad for dropping the hammer of being on the wagon. Chenshi flipping scum kinda hurts this view unless the internet is a part of a different scum group.

Anyone want to comment on my view here?

_________________

PokerFace, I did indeed receive your message during the night: paraphrasing a bit, you complimented me on the sleekness of my body hair by comparing me positively to a farmyard animal.

No, I don't actually have cigs and matches for you, but I responded as though I did as per your suggestion in post 1301. Sorry that it didn't work out... I think it's looking increasingly likely that your role is for amusement value only... which it certainly provides.

There is one thing i have been able to successfully do. I have figured out what will happen to me when I get cigarettes and matches. And i am 1105 certain of what this thing is. I actually alluded to this really bizarre skill earlier. Its something i have never seen before in my experiance, and no! I will not claim what it fully is for you now

Cigarettes don't kill me, but they do make me stronger. Now I don't turn into an SK, I am 100% certain I don't do that. In fact if my new theory (thx Elvis & Internet) is correct, giving cigarettes to me 'can' actually help the town, the scum, the cult, everybody 'can' be helped if my theory is correct. But since I believe I can choose who would recieve the benefit from my skill, the town will recieve the benefit. They all 'can' benefit, BUT since I am the one using the skill, only those I choose to benefit, will. At least this is what I think for now. I'll explain once I test my skill one more time. I could be off big time and i could be right on the money. Shaft.ed had fun with my role and if I'm right this game just got sillyer. !My Brain hurts too!

Since I have figured out what happens I must be able to get there somehow. Either via how the question sounds or by who it targets. I got no clue who I'll target tonight. I might take everyone's name, write them on the wall, blindfold myself, and throw darts at it. That idea may actually work with my luck. At this point either there is no tobaconist or someone lied to me about not having my merchandice during the day. Which would probably make them scum.

[strappado]

I think what farside has pointed out is valid and definitely good scumhunting. I think The Internet may be a good avenue to pursue this morning. I'd definitely like to hear more from him. I'm also not keen on Azimuth, reasons previously stated...also, I felt that he was trying to turn the attention towards me for pushing so hard on chenhsi yesterday. If chenhsi had actually been town, it would have been warranted and I would have fully expected Azimuth to come after me today and I wouldn't have thought him scum for it. But chenhsi turned up scum, and I felt that Azimuth's first post, he was still going to try to make me look suspicious in some way for pushing chenhsi's lynch (as a partner upset with his contribution), but when he looked back, he couldn't find anything to corroborate. Could be he's just town barking up the wrong tree, but could also be that he's scum trying to push to get a town with a (IMO) fairly decent role lynched.

[Lord Gurgi]

Albatross!

PF: Could be reluctance to bus. I prefer Azimuth lynch.

Albatross!

[strappado]

Re: The Internet (or anyone for that matter) being inspected by the bridgekeeper - I wouldn't 100% trust what they say they answered. If I were scum in this situation and found out there was a possibly town role as powerful as the BK, I might lie about being visited, or lie about my answers - it's a win win. I'm either "cleared" in the eyes of most, or the BK outs themselves by saying "Nuh Uh!!" and you can kill 'em at night. I dunno, just a thought.

[PokerFace]

That's actually an interesting point strappado.

The BK mostly likly exists with you seeing him on night 1 and the dead town SpyreX claiming to have seen him too. I would hate to see that guy getting forced to claim.

BTW I didn't mean to come off as attacking you saying the word spook in reference to the Jester stuff. I meant to be sarcastic. I think I joke too much and perhaps have maltreated you in perticular too much during this game. Or at least come off like that at a few points. I hope you don't take that as personal. Sorry if i have been upsetting you alot.

Later on this week, or worst case next week, I'm going to try and do some more scum hunting and develop a list on who I am suspicious of and who i am not suspicious of. I severly hope I get to it this week over next.

[Lord Gurgi]

Albatross!

Please don't say who you aren't suspicious of, helps scum.

Albatross!

[The Internet]

I do think that including a scummy person (Chenhsi) on your scum list, but never actually putting them to the top is pretty scummy. It's like distancing without having to buss them.

I agree. Especially the saying he's "scummy enough for a vote, but not enough for a hammer" line. I don't like that at all.

Vote the Internet.

Ding, ding, and we have a wagoneer. I was debating about whether to work on a case against you or Muerrto, but I think with muerrto's revelation of being visited by bridgekeeper I'll make you the target of my scumhunt today.

[Muerrto]

Ding, ding, and we have a wagoneer. I was debating about whether to work on a case against you or Muerrto, but I think with muerrto's revelation of being visited by bridgekeeper I'll make you the target of my scumhunt today.

Um...2 votes is a wagon when it takes 6 to lynch? This post sounds a tad over defensive to me.

I'm gonna try a re-read er...skim tonight and post some more thoughts.

[strappado]

Dear Pokerface,
I appreciate the apology...but I can't say the same, I meant to call you a tool...and I'm still leery of you. I dont know if I even buy your tobacconist bit, seems a convenient little mystery that the town would want to keep you around for to figure out, and you can appear very busy trying to figure out this nonsense. I just dont know if I trust it. ...but there has been some decent contribution from you, and there are definitely scummier players out there ATM, so I'm not too pressed on barking up your tree just yet... but being a tool and saying things that may make me look scummy and then offering up a sugar sweet buttkiss apology isn't going to save you if I decide to go on the warpath.

Hugs & Kisses,
strappado

[PokerFace]

heh heh, I wouldn't have it any other way Strappado. I think I did do slightly more scum hunting day 1 compared to the other days, so I indeed need to pick things back up some. And I get Gurgi's logic so I'll just give a list of who I'm suspicious of when I find time between games.

@Muerto,

Ding, ding, and we have a wagoneer. I was debating about whether to work on a case against you or Muerrto, but I think with muerrto's revelation of being visited by bridgekeeper I'll make you the target of my scumhunt today.

Um...2 votes is a wagon when it takes 6 to lynch? This post sounds a tad over defensive to me.

Over defensiveness is by no means a scum tell in my book. Are you saying you consider it one? If so why? Would you join his wagon for that reason?

[Azimuth]

So, did nobody look at SpyreX last night? I agree with PokerFace; it's possible a killer was his target and that's how he died. We seem to have a few tracking or tracking-related roles; I'd especially like to know whether killa seven sent someone after SpyreX.

Lord Gurgi, I know you can't say much in your restricted posts, but most of your "previous reasons" for wanting to lynch me were refuted. If you hang on to them without further explanation, I will have to wonder why.

strappado has it backwards: I wasn't suspicious of her because she pushed hard on chenhsi; rather, I was suspicious of the chenhsi push because she was doing it. My suspicions of her were based on Days 1 and 2, for much of the same reasons Mirth had before she was bumped off.

I will repeat that the whole "let's lynch whoever didn't vote for chenhsi" argument is weak, as most vote-related arguments are. So all five people who weren't on the wagon must be mafia? I still think it's at least as likely that someone realized chenhsi was useless and decided to get rid of him to gain "cred."

PokerFace, I'm not going to offer you tobacco if I have none to offer, even if you claim that it will do something great for the town. As far as I can tell the only person who ever tried to offer you tobacco is dead now. Maybe you really have noble intentions, but the rest of us can't know that.

I'd also like to point out that in addition to at least one more mafia member, we may also have a cult that is four members strong by now. I will be more suspicious of people who pop out of nowhere to "agree" without much input of their own (hello Mr. Ninja).

Still, much of my focus is still on killa seven, at least until he decides to make contributions to the game beyond a terse, unhelpful post whenever he gets prodded. Whom did he target last night, and whom did he want that person to track (or "watch" or whatever)?

[elvis_knits]

About the kill on spyrex...

Maybe someone whith a better understanding of how his role works can help me. I think PF seemed to understand it pretty well.

Is there any way of knowing if Spyrex died because he was targetted or because he targetted a scum, drawing their kill? Is there any use speculating, or is it something we can't know?

[Azimuth]

Is there any way of knowing if Spyrex died because he was targetted or because he targetted a scum, drawing their kill? Is there any use speculating, or is it something we can't know?

We probably can't know for sure, but if we get a lead it might open a more tangible line of investigation.

I also realize that I just asked for information from someone I don't quite trust (killa seven). Still, much of my distrust stems from his seeming unhelpfulness; if he provides info that actually helps, my suspicions might change. If, of course, his "info" leads to a townie lynch yet again, my suspicion could solidify. So either way, I think it's a good idea to hear from him.

[elvis_knits]

I realized that I think that the most likely person in either case (Spyrex targetting him or him targetting spyrex) is the same person: Muerrto.

Think about it. Muerrto thought Spyrex was cult. If Muerrto is mafia, he wants to get rid of the cult ASAP. So he wants to kill Spyrex. Also, Spyrex was voting Muerrto yesterday at some point, I think. Which would make Muerrto want to eliminate him. Muerrto had the most reason of anyone to want Spyrex dead.

BUT ALSO, Muerrto would make sense as Spyrex's choice to target last night since he was suspicious of Muerrto.

Either way, I think Muerrto makes the most sense as the person most likely to target spyrex, or the person Spyrex was most likely to target.

vote muerrto

[farside22]

Azimuth: My vote on the internet is not just his lack of vote on chenshi, but his wishy washy attitude in regards to lynch that I find hard to swallow.
Side note: Can't believe people are ignoring that conversation. Also talking about why spryx was killed is all WIFOM and can be used by scum to make someone else look guilty.

[PokerFace]

About the kill on spyrex...

Maybe someone whith a better understanding of how his role works can help me. I think PF seemed to understand it pretty well.

Is there any way of knowing if Spyrex died because he was targetted or because he targetted a scum, drawing their kill? Is there any use speculating, or is it something we can't know?

Using just SpyreX and anyone he may have crumbed as our only info (

Anyone see any crumbs below?

) There is no absolute definate.

Also does anyone see crumbs on who SpyreX made as his target?

It was me before these posts and so I see no crumbs really.

Well, I was gonna chime in on LG, but that started, developed and finished too quick to get a word in edgewise.

Although I guess I do have to change something - I was going to target PF tonight just to prove at minimum I have the role I said I do, but it sounds like you have some method to actually get your cigs so back to the drawing board.

Logic? Good luck. I agree with LG, lets hammertime and get this done with.

Also on chenshi the Name Cardinal Fang was found. The comfy chair is back in use some how. I recall the names of the other spainish cardnals as being Cardinal Biggles and Cardinal Xemphis (sp?). The two of them may also be in the game if the chair is still in use on a Real Second Town Taunter too.

I have never been a fan of directing power roles but I did just now think of one way we could have done it.

1) SpyreX grabs somebody
2) Strappado Watches SpyreX seeing how many characters target him and who.
3) K7 sends "Jon Doe" after SpyreX.

That "Jon Doe" learns who Spyre grabbed. If SpyreX dies and Strappado sees only Patsy (K7) target SpyreX then K7 did the killing. If Strappado see 2 characters Patsy (K7) and one other ??? then the other must have done the killing. Strappado claims there was only 2. "Jon Doe" says who was grabbed.

Whoever was grabbed has to claim their real character since Strappado saw it. If they fake claim or can't explain the kill well enough then imediatly lynch the guy SpyreX grabbed. Should the grabbed guy turn up innocent then K7 must have sent the kill since he was also seen by Strappado. Lynch K7.

HOWEVER Should Strappado have seen 3 or more people (K7 the grabbed guy and Whoever else) then there is no way of really determining things. Guy grabbed by SpyreX and the third guy could have both made the shot so it would only work if Strappado saw only 2. Every other town player would have to refuse to target SpyreX ever in order to get best chance of getting best results. But even still if there was any role blocking or redirectors involved then we would not have enough definate info. With such a silly setup there may even be a miller for trackers here. A Gravedigger which always targets whoever dies. So we could make some firm educated guess towards finding things out, but there would be no 100% esspecially if we had mapped this plan out earlier. In order to have mapped it out I would have had to say it in public in thread and telling the Scum our plans is about as smart as putting a loaded gun to your head.

I doubt all the actions went well along those lines, so if we do figure out who SpyreX grabbed then they should recieve suspicion but really

there is no gaurantee.

If I had to take a guess at who SpyreX grabbed, I would guess he would grab someone he or somebody else suspected yesterday. People that got suspicion yesterday:

1) Muerto <<SpyreX suspected him like Elvis just said

2) Azimuth And The Internet
Ninja <<Farside and gurgi suspect him, just like I suspected Strap at the end of day one, and Farside suspected Elvis at the end of day 2.

3a) I VAGUELY remember someone bringing up stuff on Imaginality / Jordan. So I guess he is a possible target but unlikly since I can't remember who brought the suspicions up even.
3b) Killa Seven <<SpyreX said he thought K7 was town so I see this as unlikly BUT there were some people that suspect him.
3c) Lord Gurgi <<Only I suspected him and that matter has been cleaned up so I don't see SpyreX drawing him.

I'm going to get in a suspicion list as soon as I can and use that to determine who I want to lynch. This info won't fully dictate who I vote for. My own analysis will determine who I vote for.

[PokerFace]

EBWOP!

People that got suspicion yesterday:

1) Muerto <<SpyreX suspected him like Elvis just said

2) Azimuth And The Internet and Ninja <<Farside and gurgi suspect him, just like I suspected Strap at the end of day one, and Farside suspected Elvis at the end of day 2.

3a) I VAGUELY remember someone bringing up stuff on Imaginality / Jordan. So I guess he is a possible target but unlikly since I can't remember who brought the suspicions up even.
3b) Killa Seven <<SpyreX said he thought K7 was town so I see this as unlikly BUT there were some people that suspect him.
3c) Lord Gurgi <<Only I suspected him and that matter has been cleaned up so I don't see SpyreX drawing him.

I'm going to get in a suspicion list as soon as I can and use that to determine who I want to lynch. This info won't fully dictate who I vote for. My own analysis will determine who I vote for.[/quote]

[elvis_knits]

This is your last statement in regards to chenshi's lynch.

Seeing whats happened so far, I think it is adviseable to lynch chenshi today. However, he is at L-1, and though he is the best candidate for lynching, I feel that he has not dropped any major scumtells and not that many monor ones, so I'm not comfortable hammering him.

Wishy washy at best. My vote stands.

Farside...

I think your point about having someone on your scum list but never at the top and voting them is valid. But don't you think scum might as well hammer their buddy if they're L-1? I mean, it's not as if they can prevent the lynch at that point. I know it's WIFOM, but I really think scum would try to be the hammer or be on the wagon if they knew they could not prevent the lynch.

[farside22]

This is your last statement in regards to chenshi's lynch.

Seeing whats happened so far, I think it is adviseable to lynch chenshi today. However, he is at L-1, and though he is the best candidate for lynching, I feel that he has not dropped any major scumtells and not that many monor ones, so I'm not comfortable hammering him.

Wishy washy at best. My vote stands.

Farside...

I think your point about having someone on your scum list but never at the top and voting them is valid. But don't you think scum might as well hammer their buddy if they're L-1? I mean, it's not as if they can prevent the lynch at that point. I know it's WIFOM, but I really think scum would try to be the hammer or be on the wagon if they knew they could not prevent the lynch.

True I will give you that. I think my problem is that he was always wishy washy about Chenshi lynch.