Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[Nachomamma8]

Pooky, I'll follow your vote if you head somewhere that isn't Hectic. You seem town based on the conversations people are having around you in the last few pages, but your Hectic case does not slap and Hectic individually seems town on a skim. Where else shall we go?

[Nachomamma8]

y'all are boring.

puppy's early game seems pretty Tanner-centric for someone who knows he's dying soon so I doubt Tanner is scum here. Why are people clearing lavender?

[Nachomamma8]

pooky's early posting is fantastic, i love it!

[Nachomamma8]

HURT: Lavender

Scumteam had a weird strategy going into this. Elements and Puppy tried for a mutual bus to give Puppy the credit to get spared the next day, but seemed to only half-do it. If Puppy had a strong scumpartner (aka any of the players with a big ol' chunk of posts this game), I don't think it unfolds the way it does - they would be encouraged to either press it harder or drop it completely. Catboi kill N1 was silly; as Pooky pointed out, catboi was a high town read but most certainly not unmislynchable like many others that are still alive.

It's not Tanner because of early Puppy/him interactions. It's not Prism because hyperposting. It's not Pooky because I think Pooky makes an effort to make a bigger splash play centering around the Chara role, and I don't think Pooky hangs out on Hectic the day after the Taylor Swift lynch. It's not Hectic because my heart tells me it's not Hectic.

The things that strongly point me towards Lavender are the early townread on Puppy, which I think happened because Elements said in the scum PT that the strategy was to get Puppy cred then get him spared the next day. I don't think town!Lavender's only read that they express any significant amount of attachment to is a townread on the "if town spares here they lose" guy.

No flipped scum made a run at Lavender, which is kind of crazy when they are the definition on low hanging fruit - whenever beeboy or Puppy mentioned them, it was always attached in a group with other lurkers.

And finally, there's no one else who would have forgotten to submit the N2 kill. There's no reason to pass up on a kill in that situation when it's a kill you very desperately need to silence some town voices.

[Nachomamma8]

/me waves

hi!

come vote with me!

[Nachomamma8]

hello hectic!

[Nachomamma8]

Could you both tell me what you think of my Pooky-case? I think it's him, but if not, probably Lavender. Also, I should really read why Prism so strongly though it was Chara and get back to you.

viewtopic.php?p=12194871#p12194871

Pedit: Hello again!

While I'm working on it, why do you think Pooky opted not to kill N2?

[Nachomamma8]

This is the first scum-indicative thing I saw. At the time, I found the reasoning here very strange, I think I mentioned it then at some point as well, but basically, it smells of scum!Pooky distancing with Ele, but the reasoning he's provided is just not believable. It's very unrealistic and surface level to assume that scum!Ele is trying to "sneak" himself into the middle of some SPARES because he's Chara trying to ascend. Pooky also for whatever reason is implying puttimg himself in the middle somehow makes it more sneaky, like Ele has put forth a plan of days 1 to 3 SPARES. The read just makes no sense, and it's because scum!Pooky is using it as an excuse to distance some with his partner.

I agree with your criticism that the point is not great. But I don't understand how "attacking someone with poor logic" leads you to "scum distancing". Why would Pooky want to distance with Elements at that point? It's usually not hard to find reasons to attack a scum partner (since you know they are scum already), but usually bad distancing happens when people force it - why would Pooky, a very crafty teddy bear, force it?

Elements did basically put forward a spare plan for the next three days. I understand Pooky's point about him putting himself in the middle but not at the end (so he looks like he's willing to spare someone else, but he's also not putting himself as the last person to be spared. I understand your criticism here, again, but disagree that bad logic = scum.

[Nachomamma8]

y'all are boring.

puppy's early game seems pretty Tanner-centric for someone who knows he's dying soon so I doubt Tanner is scum here. Why are people clearing lavender?

People are clearing Lavender because of this:

HURT: Taylor
Okay I’m going back to sleep now

Town were 2 hours away from instalosing due to a clause in the rules which allow scum to pick who gets SPARED if town hit deadline without majority. Lavender came on and saved the day.

oh.

well that's a big ol' debbie downer.

i still believe that lavender is the last baddie who simply didn't want to win in such a sad, soul-crushing way but acknowledge that things are no longer the slam dunk i thought they were.

tanner's also SUPATOWN.

[Nachomamma8]

Alright, then we have this. This also pinged me at the time, but I couldn't really put my finger on one of the reasons for why until overnight. The post is worded in a very strange way, he's not talking to Ele directly, he's not just going straight into his thoughts with a "I find this hilarious because", he's starts with a "This is just a hilarious read from". I know some of you won't like this kind of read, but unnatural wording when talking about scum partners is a serious scumtell, because here, it looks like Pooky is presenting the read to an audience, like this is for all intents and purposes how it'll be viewed by others - which it is.

Okay, the other reason it's scummy is because Pooky does more tinfoil/weird reasoning to shade Ele for it. He assumes Ele is forming a team solve with the two scum exactly being Tanner/Launchy, and the Chara being Pooky. There is nothing to suggest Ele is putting forth a team solve with those being partnered, for all we know they could be individual reads - which is what I assumed at the time. Instead, Pooky focuses heavily on how Pooky/Chara/Puppy is ridiculous. It's more TMI-esque distancing.

This is a reach.

Most people present their scumreads as opposed to talk to them - you're trying to convince other people to kill the bad guy, not convince the bad guy that he himself is bad - same thing you did with this case, same thing I did when I talked about Lavender. I also think that it's reasonable to assume that Elements putting forward three scumreads when there's a three person scumteam is Elements putting forward a potential solve; your perception of it is also valid, but calling it TMI-esque distancing because he came at it with a different angle than you did is bad.

[Nachomamma8]

Hectic is Piergeiron the Paladinson your alt? Because that would explain the Backrooms nonsense.

hectic is a good honest kid
care to join me on lav or krazy but probably lav?

[Nachomamma8]

bh I don't think this clears Lavender when Lavender was being told that they'll be locktown if they vote there. Sure Lavender can wait around for like 2 hours but its too risky. If town shows up and votes Taylor then they're screwed and anything can happen within 2 hours.

yeah this is a good point.

lav confidence removed.

[Nachomamma8]

lav hesitation***

[Nachomamma8]

If you doubt me, check the playerlist here:

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=84250

Pedit: I lost so much confidence by just seeing this post, you have no idea

that loss of your confidence is your heart telling you that you're making the wrong decision, but that's OK - you still have time to save yourself.
trust in pookie. trust in me.

[Nachomamma8]

Not voting Hectic.

I'll consolidate on Krazy. I'll spare one of the many people outside of {Krazy, Lavender}. I'll be working when deadline hits so while I'll check in beforehand people need to start voting.

[Nachomamma8]

@nacho, what was your procedure upon replacing in / how much of the game did you read prior to making 3795?

I replaced in. I read the last couple of pages and noticed people talking about the likelihood of Pookie bussing. I read the beginning of the game + setup rules, then read about the first 25 pages, then skimmed up until Puppy ate buttercups.

[Nachomamma8]

But then again, maybe she didnt quite realize the implications.

If there's a player who would pass on the coin flip, it would be lav. If there was a player who wouldn't understand the implications, it would be lav.

Most importantly, the only player who skips the N2 kill is Lav.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho can you expand on your reasoning? I feel like Lavender is pretty likely town given end of day 2, and I can point to several metrics that I think should make it not too hard to find town in my slot (NKA, VCA, meta...)

I've expanded on my lavender thoughts - what do you think of the case that I provided?

I don't really think that you are scum but the town case on others is stronger than the town case on you.

[Nachomamma8]

The catboi nightkill does not come from a last scum under fire:

It doesn't come from scum in a good position either.

It's a bad kill.

[Nachomamma8]

Hectic also is right here on some of the reasons I do not no kill:

Lavender is the only person who no kills in this situation. There is not another player who no kills here.

[Nachomamma8]

The rest of the game is hyper-engaged, playing very strong scum games if scum. No killing offers no real benefit to scum playing this far behind; much better to shut more people up.

I don't think we have anyone here who would intentionally no kill, thus we're looking at someone making an accident - Lavender is the only one I can see missing deadline on a night action due to flgihtiness/lack of engagement.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm not voting either of you.

I'd rather mafia pick the kill.

[Nachomamma8]

I think Pooky/Nacho/Krazy holds the last scum!!! If it doesn't, I am become dead.

I found Lav's post where she tried to "townspew" earlier today pretty towny (as well as adorable)

Oh, maybe Nacho is just the scum because Chara was away and forgot to nightkill.

In reality, the lack of a nightkill is probably just because scum forgot. No galaxy-brain plays.

Correct. Either Chara doesn't submit because it isn't around or Lav doesn't submit because she isn't around. I don't know why more people aren't obsessed with this.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm not voting either of you.

I'd rather mafia pick the kill.

this is extremely fucking stupud because scum spares and ruins ev

HURT: hectic

sorry

we don't need to play optimally at this point. just need to kill the person that missed a kill last night.

[Nachomamma8]

just dawned on me why scum would intentionally no kill

[Nachomamma8]

Pooky I am so glad you've made a return to the site - my only regret this game was that our time together was short but I enjoyed every post that you made.