Mini 634 - The Baron's court: Game over

[Gremwell]

It's kind of hard to say right now, hence me not voting, but I would have to say Mariyta tops my list right now for her play D1, nothing really so far D2. But I also feel she's putting herself out there a lot and that makes me look at Singing Librarian who seems entirely off the radar, I am interested to see what comes of the thinktank line of questioning but right now I don't see enough.


I'm not sure if this was ever mentioned before, and I didn't see anything about it on the front page.

How many scum are we looking at? 2 or 3? if it is 3 then we are at LyLo effectively, the reason I bring this up is because with so many power roles it seems odd that we have no real direction after 2 nights, my guess is that most of our roles are nerfed a bit

Vote count

(8 players alive = 5 to lynch before deadline)
(1) Gremwell – Mariyta
(1) sekinj – Rage
(1) thinktank – sekinj

Not voting:

Gremwell, MafiaMann, raverblood, Singing Librarian, thinktank

Deadline:

Thursday 4 September 2:00 PM (GMT -5 according to forum clock)

[Mariyta]

is that a serious question

Sort of. It's more a question to me. You strike me as scummy, but I can't figure out why. If you want to help me out, feel free.



Gremwell: OMGUS much? Also, only the scum really know how many scum there are. You should know that. My vote stays.

[MafiaMann]

is that a serious question

Sort of. It's more a question to me. You strike me as scummy, but I can't figure out why. If you want to help me out, feel free.



Gremwell: OMGUS much? Also, only the scum really know how many scum there are. You should know that. My vote stays.

maybe its my name??

[Gremwell]

Gremwell: OMGUS much? Also, only the scum really know how many scum there are. You should know that. My vote stays.

Just because you're the person who asked me you should be cleared of all suspicion? Nice try

[sekinj]

Gremwell: OMGUS much?

You claim everything is OMGUS. I'm going to ignore it whenever you say that from now on.

[sekinj]

EBWOP:

well, now that the weekend is over... What does everyone think? I think thinktank...

Fixed. (no I wasn't drunk)

Wait, how is that fixed? You "think thinktank"? Still doesn't make sense to me.

I think he was referring to "now", not the end. He thinks Thinktank is the play for the day.

Yes.

[sekinj]

I think either Gremwell, or MafiaMann. However, I think Rage asked Sekinj some decent questions, so I'd like the answers to those. And I'd still like an answer to my question for Thinktank.

@sekinj: Please answer Rage's question.

for the record, you need to settle down. You latch on to something Rage has said and then pester me about it twice in the same post? When rages post was less than 12 hours ago with no action between? The reason I don't like this is because it makes me look like I'm avoiding the question, which is not the case.

[sekinj]

To recap, Sekinj claims to be the only player who has no night action/choice. OhGodMyLife counterclaims, saying he has no night action. OhGodMyLife is lynched and flips Town, name and role revealed. Sekinj claims that OhGodMyLife must have had to counterclaim him because his nickname is/was 'Capricious'.

@Sekinj, is that the only reason why the Town should not lynch you right now? It seems to me that the only thing keeping you alive right now is WIFOM, that

you

presented, and now you have moved past this and are attacking thinktank.

Well, since I know my PM i think the town should not lynch because I am town. I realize that not everyone else has that insider knowledge. However, the scum out there are frothing at the mouth trying to get me lynching since they know that BOTH me and OGML are town. I really don't know what other evidence I can really present. At some point you just have to take the leap that my claim and OGML's count was not a black and white scum v town issue. Now, if it takes my lynch to prove that, then okay, but if we have two mislynches ina row AND have to continue without my info, I don't think the town can win.

I moved on to attacking someone because I know the town is not going to get anywhere if we just keep talking about me. I believe think's flip-flop was huge, and I don't buy his explanation.

[thinktank]

as day 1 started to come to a close I found that OMGL was probably more town out of the two of them based on the empirical evidence. Leaving that something was fishy with Sekinj. I am not convinced Sekinj is telling the truth whether intentionally or unintentionally.

Sekinj says everyone else in this game has a night action. OMGL counters and is lynched fllipping town. There is no reason whatsoever that OMGL would have lied and I don't buy this "capricous" argument that it was part of his character. It is far more likely that either Sekinj is scum or she is insane.

I agree that it would be weird for the mod to come up with a lot of information to have it be useless so logically Sekinj should be scum.. Although this line of logic is terrible because it outguesses the mod.

[Mariyta]

I think either Gremwell, or MafiaMann. However, I think Rage asked Sekinj some decent questions, so I'd like the answers to those. And I'd still like an answer to my question for Thinktank.

@sekinj: Please answer Rage's question.

for the record, you need to settle down. You latch on to something Rage has said and then pester me about it twice in the same post? When rages post was less than 12 hours ago with no action between? The reason I don't like this is because it makes me look like I'm avoiding the question, which is not the case.

For the record, I was just restating what I wanted to hear from everyone, Ms. Cranky Pants. Lots of times, people won't pay attention unless they see their name. I still think you're town, but that doesn't mean I don't want to know what your answer to Rage's question was.

Gremwell, I don't think I should be cleared from anything just yet. But all you say is "Mariyta is scum because of day 1." What about day 1? You give no case. I don't care if you attack me, but at least give a decent reason for it.

[sekinj]

Ms. Cranky Pants

lol

[sekinj]

as day 1 started to come to a close I found that OMGL was probably more town out of the two of them based on the empirical evidence. Leaving that something was fishy with Sekinj. I am not convinced Sekinj is telling the truth whether intentionally or unintentionally.

Sekinj says everyone else in this game has a night action. OMGL counters and is lynched fllipping town. There is no reason whatsoever that OMGL would have lied and I don't buy this "capricous" argument that it was part of his character. It is far more likely that either Sekinj is scum or she is insane.

I agree that it would be weird for the mod to come up with a lot of information to have it be useless so logically Sekinj should be scum.. Although this line of logic is terrible because it outguesses the mod.

once again, I know I'm biased, but thinktank pushing the binary option of me being scum because OGML wasn't is SCUMMY.

[Rage]

Gremwell: OMGUS much?

You claim everything is OMGUS. I'm going to ignore it whenever you say that from now on.

I'm starting to think this way too. Mariyta, all you say about someone's arguments against you if you happen to be suspicious of them at the time is "OMGUS much?" That doesn't disprove their reasoning, nor help either side of the argument. You just dismiss the argument and focus on

Well, since I know my PM i think the town should not lynch because I am town. I realize that not everyone else has that insider knowledge. However, the scum out there are frothing at the mouth trying to get me lynching since they know that BOTH me and OGML are town. I really don't know what other evidence I can really present. At some point you just have to take the leap that my claim and OGML's count was not a black and white scum v town issue. Now, if it takes my lynch to prove that, then okay, but if we have two mislynches ina row AND have to continue without my info, I don't think the town can win.

You know, I could totally understand intense amounts of pressure on an informative role, especially this early in the game, but the problem is that the information you have given the Town just doesn't make any sense. As far as I know, knowing the gender of each player doesn't really help, and so far has proved your sanity. You gave out the following information on Day 1:

I got a whole list clues, but I can't play all my cards at once, or we could find scum.

I'll share two things for now:

First: almost all of us have night powers of some sort, 10 in fact. I am one of the few who has none.

Second: Whoever has a first name starting with the letter B is a pro-town character.

1) The first was counterclaimed by our dead Squire, OhGodMyLife. The second is iffy, since it has the possibility to confirm both scum and town. You see, on one hand, you present this information and scum claims a fake first name starting with B. They bring up this information, and suspicions against them die down. On the other hand, a Town member could just as easily do the same, so ultimately, it comes down to whether or not we believe the role they claim alongside it, and whatever other information they give out about their character. All in all, releasing this information is not a pro-town move.

2) You played some cards yesterday, so now, today, if there is any information that you think would benefit Town more than Scum to know, would you be so kind as to release it? Don't be surprised if I am suspicious of the information, though.

It is far more likely that either Sekinj is scum or she is insane.

She says she isn't insane.

It is very important for everyone to note: I do not believe I am insane anymore. OGML's nickname proved to me that he was the one who was being irrational.

And OhGodMyLife's nickname may prove to you, Sekinj, that he was irrational, but I've said that my nickname doesn't designate what I can do to players, like you are implying with OhGodMyLife. It describes my character, which all nicknames should, but my nickname does not give me any sort of restriction, nor induces tunnel-vision. You've said that OhGodMyLife counterclaimed you because he had to, but I don't believe you. If he was forced to counterclaim, he probably would not have given up in the end:

Unvote

sekinj, is there any conceivable way for you to have been given false information?

Therefore, I'm under the impression that you are a panicking scum. That's why you earned my vote.

[sekinj]

Therefore, I'm under the impression that you are a panicking scum. That's why you earned my vote.

^ Understandable... But I never panic... so I can't be scum...

on a serious note, I'll look over my info again and see what else I can scrounge... the thing is that it depends on people feeding me info...

and I find it hypocritcal that you tell me to give more info, and then say the info I give isn't pro-town.

[Rage]

Gremwell: OMGUS much?

You claim everything is OMGUS. I'm going to ignore it whenever you say that from now on.

I'm starting to think this way too. Mariyta, all you say about someone's arguments against you if you happen to be suspicious of them at the time is "OMGUS much?" That doesn't disprove their reasoning, nor help either side of the argument. You just dismiss the argument and focus on more important events, like now how you have proved Sekinj's defense as craplogic, and before, on Day 1, how you encouraged information out of both Sekinj and OhGodMyLife but earlier used "OMGUS much" against Sekinj, who asked you to give out information.

I forgot to finish the first paragraph. Fixed now.

[Rage]

Therefore, I'm under the impression that you are a panicking scum. That's why you earned my vote.

^ Understandable... But I never panic... so I can't be scum...

Everyone does. Suck it up!

and I find it hypocritcal that you tell me to give more info, and then say the info I give isn't pro-town.

That isn't hypocritical. Of course, that is if I am allowed to interpret the information and not just hang on your every word, right?

[sekinj]

Therefore, I'm under the impression that you are a panicking scum. That's why you earned my vote.

^ Understandable... But I never panic... so I can't be scum...

Everyone does. Suck it up!

I was just kidding. settle.

and I find it hypocritcal that you tell me to give more info, and then say the info I give isn't pro-town.

That isn't hypocritical. Of course, that is if I am allowed to interpret the information and not just hang on your every word, right?

If you think my info is not pro-town, why would you want more of it?

[Rage]

Because right now it is the only thing keeping you alive. That, and possibly your persistent attack on thinktank.

[Mariyta]

Gremwell: OMGUS much?

You claim everything is OMGUS. I'm going to ignore it whenever you say that from now on.

I'm starting to think this way too. Mariyta, all you say about someone's arguments against you if you happen to be suspicious of them at the time is "OMGUS much?" That doesn't disprove their reasoning, nor help either side of the argument. You just dismiss the argument and focus on more important events, like now how you have proved Sekinj's defense as craplogic, and before, on Day 1, how you encouraged information out of both Sekinj and OhGodMyLife but earlier used "OMGUS much" against Sekinj, who asked you to give out information.

I forgot to finish the first paragraph. Fixed now.

If they have valid arguments, that it's not OMGUS. Gremwell didn't give anything but "she was scummy on day 1." That's clearly OMGUS. Sekinj only pointed at me because she felt I was asking for info but not giving any. From my experience in mafia, you don't just volunteer role information for the heck of it. It's dangerous. I don't see that as a valid argument against someone. Maybe it wasn't necessarily OMGUS, but that's what it felt like at the time. Gremwell's, however, has no substance whatsoever at this point.

[sekinj]

Because right now it is the only thing keeping you alive. That, and possibly your persistent attack on thinktank.

So you WANT to keep me alive? if you want to keep me alive, why are you voting me?

Do you see what I'm showing you? you are reasoning in a circle.

I will spell it out for you:
sek gives more info --> giving info is not pro-town, sek must be scum --> rage votes sek --> rage tells sek to give more info in order to not be lynched --> sek gives more info....

Now do you see how that is hypocritical?

[Rage]

I've said that the information you released before is more scummy than pro-town, yes, but I have not said that all your information is, because I don't know it. Once again, not hypocritical.

If anything, I'm encouraging the chance for you to keep yourself alive. All this time, you haven't said a thing that gives me the impression you deserve to live/continue playing; you're on your way to nitpicking at what I'm saying to turn it into a reason why you don't have to give out information. And that is not a pro-town action in my eyes.

So you WANT to keep me alive? if you want to keep me alive, why are you voting me?

It's not up to me whether you live or die, but it is up to me whether or not I pressure you and try my best to convince the rest of the Town to lynch you. If you give out information that is beneficial for the Town to know, I will not pressure you. If you give out information that is not beneficial to the Town, like your previous information has been, I will. Of course, you could always choose not to give out information and continue your suspicions on Thinktank if you think that is the most pro-town action you can do, but to me that would prove you have no Pro-Town information to give out. In other words, that would mean you are scum. Prove me wrong.

giving info is not pro-town

That's not what I'm saying at all. Allow me:

-->

sekinj gives out information to prove role

-->

OhGodMyLife counterclaims information, and Rage says information benefits Scum more than Town to know

-->

OhGodMyLife is lynched, flips Town

-->

Next Day, Sekinj presents WIFOM about OhGodMyLife's role; how it could mean that he was forced to counterclaim Sekinj's information

-->

Rage votes Sekinj, saying his nickname does not designate what he can do to a player

-->

Rage asks Sekinj to present more information to prove his innocence

Is this correct?

[sekinj]

giving info is not pro-town

That's not what I'm saying at all. Allow me:

-->

sekinj gives out information to prove role

-->

OhGodMyLife counterclaims information, and Rage says information benefits Scum more than Town to know

-->

OhGodMyLife is lynched, flips Town

-->

Next Day, Sekinj presents WIFOM about OhGodMyLife's role; how it could mean that he was forced to counterclaim Sekinj's information

-->

Rage votes Sekinj, saying his nickname does not designate what he can do to a player

-->

Rage asks Sekinj to present more information to prove his innocence

Is this correct?

the speculation about OGML's role is not WIFOM. It has nothing to do with what scum would or wouldn't do. I have repeatedly said that although it is impossible to PROVE it to you guys, I personally know I am town. Therefore, when OGML flipped town, the only way I know how to explain us both being town (to your guys as well as myself) is because his nickname means he must in same way be acting erraticly.
Now I'm sure most people will have their doubts about that right up until i am lynched and turn up town. I also can't just suddenly start spouting pro-town info. The information I have is meaningless without participation. For example, I simply know that that there are 3 female characters and the rest are male. Night was female, and Rage revealed he was female early on without much pressure. Then later raver said he was the last female. Now... the hell if I know what we should DO with that information, but there it is.

[Mariyta]

I think trying to lynch sekinj at this point is like beating a dead horse. It almost feels like Rage might be pushing a bit too hard.

I'd like to hear from some of the quieter folks.

[sekinj]

I think trying to lynch sekinj at this point is like beating a dead horse. It almost feels like Rage might be pushing a bit too hard.

I'd like to hear from some of the quieter folks.

Thank you! I agree! I'm tired of talking about me. I feel like I am just repeating myself over and over again.

[Singing Librarian]

I realised that I explained my suspicions of thinktank, but not on mafiamann, who I am actually more wary of.

Why am I suspicious of mafiamann? Well, during day 1 he didn't seem all that suspicious, but during day 2 he has been really worrying me.

Firstly, there's the seriously WIFOMish suggestion that TheAdmiral was killed because he had voted for Mariyta. While that sort of thing is always possible, it's rarely useful to speculate along those lines as it ties the town up in pointless arguments which delay anything useful being discussed. And he repeats the suggestion as well, using that as the main basis of suspicion on Mariyta.

Then the sudden change from "Im against this" (claiming gender) to, in his very next post "Im male in game and rl". When queried on it, he essentially said he was doing it because everyone else was doing it, bit this is not true - between those two posts (344 and 349), only one other person, raverblood, volunteered the information. That's hardly everyone, is it? It strikes me that he wanted to seem to be doing what the town wanted, even though it needed a complete change in position within 5 posts. Not be doing, seem to be doing.

Vote: MafiaMann

That's not to say I'm not suspicious of anyone else, but this is a big inconsistency in my view, and coupled with the WIFOMy statement about the nightkill, it makes me think that he's scum trying to play the innocent.