Mini 610: Ace Attorney Mafia - Game Over!!


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Post Post #1025 (ISO) » Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:51 am

Post by SensFan »

Oh, and did you bother submitting a list last night, Rishi?



=======================================
Page 42 Votecount

Non-Jurors (1)

**malthusis: (0/3)

Jurors (3)

Rishi: (0/2, 0/1)
Cream147: (0/2, 0/1)
SensFan: (0/2, 0/1)

Not Voting: (4/4) malthusis, Rishi, Cream147, SensFan,

Deadline for D4: Saturday September 20 at 11:00 pm GMT+10
=======================================
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #1026 (ISO) » Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:53 am

Post by SensFan »

(Sorry for Triple Post)

Oh, and I'm pretty sure Rishi and I are confirmed. Anyone object to that statement?
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #1027 (ISO) » Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:27 am

Post by malthusis »

I'm not going to object to it. If I take this into account, that means there's only one person left for me to vote.
Vote: Cream
I'm definitly going to now re-read through the entire game to see whether anybody but cream was fishy.
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Post Post #1028 (ISO) » Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:59 pm

Post by Rishi »

SensFan wrote:Oh, and did you bother submitting a list last night, Rishi?
I did. I am pretty sure I put malthusis at the bottom.

Let me go over the claims again before I call you confirmed, SensFan.
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Post Post #1029 (ISO) » Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:02 pm

Post by SensFan »

Rishi wrote:
SensFan wrote:Oh, and did you bother submitting a list last night, Rishi?
I did. I am pretty sure I put malthusis at the bottom.

Let me go over the claims again before I call you confirmed, SensFan.
Fine. Either I am a Vig, or else an SK who chose not to kill last night. Since there was a kill anyways, there is a Scum here. Lynching me loses the game, in that case.
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(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #1030 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:50 am

Post by Rishi »

malthusis wrote:My role is Dick Gumshoe. I was investigating the murder of Larry Butz before the trial even started, so I got a head start (N0) investigation. My investigations were:
N0: Joubert, Guilty (This is why I pushed for him).
N1: Cream, Innocent
N2: Sensfan, Innocent

This leaves Rishi ( I'm fairly certain he's the judge),Matt, and Nat. I'm going to either vote one or the other, but I'll withhold my vote till Rishi and CS get their 2 cents in.
Well, this is open and shut now, right? Two possibilities here:

1. Someone is investigation immune (probably Cream)
2. malthusis is lying scum.

malthusis - Who did you investigate last night and what result?

Cream - Who did you protect last night?

I also find it weird that malth has already posted today and didn't mention his invesitgation result. Maybe he forgot he claimed cop?
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Post Post #1031 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:18 am

Post by Cream147 »

Rishi wrote: Cream - Who did you protect last night?
I'm a fool. I completely forgot about my doctoring powers, and didn't use them last night. If I had, it would have been on you, again.
[u]Apologies[/u]
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Post Post #1032 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:23 am

Post by Cream147 »

It seems that Malth is scum anyway. Interesting. I agree with Rishi, rather odd for a cop to post without their investigation result. I think the theory that Natirasha said he was 'invesigation-immune' to protect his buddy's claim is a good one now.
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Post Post #1033 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2008 7:37 am

Post by malthusis »

There were only 2 people I could have investigated. Rishi's practically confirmed town, so I investigated Matt. Someone must be investigation immune, because I extremely doubt that Rishi is scum.
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Post Post #1034 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:13 am

Post by SensFan »

vollkan wrote:
Natirasha. Dahlia Hawthorne,
Godmother
.
Criminal Organisation
was convicted on Trial Three
Emphasis mine. I don't buy that Cream would be investigastion-immune.

Vote: malthusis
(11:04:10 PM) senspizzaline: That's actually my bold prediction for the year
(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #1035 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:37 am

Post by Rishi »

Yeah, Sens has a good point there. Plus there's the fact that malthusis didn't mention that he thought Cream was investigation immune when he originally placed the vote. You'd think a cop would know his own prior results. That just makes it a stronger possibility that he made them up and then forgot what he made up.

Vote: malthusis
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Post Post #1036 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:40 am

Post by Cream147 »

Well, there's only one thing for me to do.
Vote: Malthusis
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Post Post #1037 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:07 am

Post by vollkan »

Malthusis had spun a web of lies in his efforts to deceive the town and, by the fourth trial day, the network of deceit had broken down.

"Isn't the Godmother already dead?" asked Sensfan.

At that point, Malthusis realised it had all come undone for the criminals.

Image

Malthusis stood still, glowering in rage at the town, and at himself for his failure. With a flick of the switch, Malthusis' life, and the criminals' reign of terror, had ended.

Image

Malthusis. Kristoph Gavin, Rogue Prosecutor.
Criminal Organisation
was convicted on Trial Four


Town Wins!!!! Congratulations


The remaining players were:

Rishi. Puisne Judge, Judge.
Town
Image
Cream147. Trucy Wright, Doctor.
Town
Image
SensFan. Franziska von Karma, 2-shot vigilante.
Town
Image


Thanks very much to everybody for their efforts in this game. I was very pleased to see the game work so well.
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Post Post #1038 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2008 11:13 am

Post by vollkan »

I will post a detailed explanation of the set-up and so on in a short while. I have to dash off to uni right now, unfortunately.
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Post Post #1039 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:24 pm

Post by vollkan »

:lol: I meant to unlock after my previous post, but I forgot.

Anyway, this setup was as follows:
Town

1 x 2-shot vig
1 x Doctor
1 x Watcher

1 x Bailiff
1 x Defence Attorney
2 x Prosecutor
2 x Judge

Scum

1 x Godmother
1 x Judge corrupter
1 x Rogue Prosecutor

Fundamentally, the game was a regular mini normal. I had a town of 9 with 3 power roles (doc, watch, vig), and a scumteam of 3 with 1 power role (Godmother).

Rather than having vanillas, I designed the game so that there would be other power roles that could influence the day process. I had much help from Norinel in this regard, who reviewed the setup (
Many thanks, Norinel
).

The defence attorney role had the power to protect from prosecution, like a doctor.

The prosecutors were indeed responsible for choosing the defendant. Each sent in a preferntial list, including malthusis, the scum prosecutor (flavour rationale: Kristoph Gavin masqueraded as Klavier Gavin. Mal had this fakeclaim, but never used it). The defendant system was an obvious disadvantage to town, since it forced lynches. The point of the prosecutors was to allow town to mitigate this disadvantage, since good prosecutors would be able to use their scumdars to place scum on the defendant's seat. Malthusis was implanted in order to play against this, however, to give the scum some influence.

The idea of the defendant system came to me because, aside from flavour, I always hate playing in games where town is indecisive leading up to deadline. I also don't like "most number of votes is lynched at deadline", because I feel it encourages indecisiveness and lack of discussion. Thus, my hope was that the defendant system would basically force people to make a judgment. It was no longer "Is X scummy enough to lynch?" but, rather, "Is X scummier than Y?" I'd be very interested to know what people think of this system, and whether you think it made the difference that I hoped it would?

The judges, as you surmised, were responsible for juror selection. Each night they sent in a role PM with a preferential list of all players alive at that point. The defendant determination took prioirity over juror determination and, thus, the top people of the combined preferential list were selected as jurors. Ties were resolved by random.org (Chief Judge did NOT gain priority, contrary to what was guessed in thread). The jury selection was also influenced by the judge corrupter and bailiff. They also got to send in lists, but their lists had reduced value (I weighted their preferences by half) and could only include three people.

The juror system was basically town's compensation for the defendant system. Given the relative control town had over the juror selection, it allowed for a situation in which, if judges were clever and gave lowest preference to suspects, the scum could be disempowered.

Thanks again for playing, and I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts :D
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Post Post #1040 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:28 pm

Post by SensFan »

I really enjoyed replacing in to this game, even though I tend not to like "different mechanic" Theme games.

Thanks a lot for your hard work, and for the personal invitation!
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(11:04:19 PM) senspizzaline: Miami finishes 2nd in the AFCE.
(11:05:35 PM) jhawk01b: my bold prediction for the year is that whoever wins the NFC West will have a winning record
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Post Post #1041 (ISO) » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:03 pm

Post by Cream147 »

This was a really fun game. Probably the best game I've played at this site so far. I liked the juror and defendant systems. It made it very interesting near deadline.
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Post Post #1042 (ISO) » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:52 am

Post by Rishi »

vollkan wrote: The idea of the defendant system came to me because, aside from flavour, I always hate playing in games where town is indecisive leading up to deadline. I also don't like "most number of votes is lynched at deadline", because I feel it encourages indecisiveness and lack of discussion. Thus, my hope was that the defendant system would basically force people to make a judgment. It was no longer "Is X scummy enough to lynch?" but, rather, "Is X scummier than Y?" I'd be very interested to know what people think of this system, and whether you think it made the difference that I hoped it would?
I think it was fun for a change of pace, but I wouldn't want to play this format all the time. I think the power of one person to withhold a vote occasionally made the game frustrating.

By the way, I'm curious how the jury would have been determined if both judges and the judge corrupter had been dead? Random?

Anyway, good game town. It was really made a lot easier by the way that the scum messed up their fake claims.
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Post Post #1043 (ISO) » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:54 am

Post by Gorrad »

That was fun! Good game all around.
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Post Post #1044 (ISO) » Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:09 am

Post by vollkan »

Rishi wrote:
vollkan wrote: The idea of the defendant system came to me because, aside from flavour, I always hate playing in games where town is indecisive leading up to deadline. I also don't like "most number of votes is lynched at deadline", because I feel it encourages indecisiveness and lack of discussion. Thus, my hope was that the defendant system would basically force people to make a judgment. It was no longer "Is X scummy enough to lynch?" but, rather, "Is X scummier than Y?" I'd be very interested to know what people think of this system, and whether you think it made the difference that I hoped it would?
I think it was fun for a change of pace, but I wouldn't want to play this format all the time. I think the power of one person to withhold a vote occasionally made the game frustrating.

What about a defendant system without a jury (as in, regular voting mechanics except that there is an auto-lynch at deadline)?
Rishi wrote: By the way, I'm curious how the jury would have been determined if both judges and the judge corrupter had been dead? Random?
It never came up in game, but it was obviously something I had to plan for (in relation to both the jurors and defendant).

I ended up settling on randomness, but there were other ideas I tossed up in the planning stage (eg. randomly picking a dead player to submit a list).
Rishi wrote: Anyway, good game town. It was really made a lot easier by the way that the scum messed up their fake claims.
Interestingly, every single scum member had a guaranteed safeclaim.

I could have mentioned this earlier, but:
Joubert had the safeclaim of Dick Gumshoe, cop.
Natirasha had Maya Fey, no role specified
Malthusis had Klavier Gavin, prosecutor.
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Post Post #1045 (ISO) » Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:57 am

Post by Mirth »

Good game, was keeping up with it after I died. (Thanks, Sens, btw, I'm just curious what would make you think I'd push a lynch of my scum partner when there a) wasn't really enough to convict him, b)were other candidates the town preferred, and c)he came up scum.)

I don't know how the second list was determined, and I don't know how Tajo did his, but I think I can explain why BabyGirl was the defendant day 1: The list I sent in night 0 was done alphabetically of the original 12 players.

Night 0 list:
1. babygirl86
2. ChiefSkye4
3. Cream147
4. Gorrad
5. Joubert
6. MafiaSSK
7. malthusis
8. Mirth
9. Natirasha
10. populartajo
11. SlySly
12. theopor_COD

Night 1 I sent in 2 lists, the second a revision of the first, since the mod said I could revise up to the night's end.

The original list:
1.Battle Mage
2.Natirasha
3.Populartajo
4.Malthusis
5.SensFan
6.Gorrad
7.Cream147
8.ChiefSkye4
9.Matt_S
10.Rishi
11.Mirth

The second revised list:
1.Natirasha
2. Sensfan
3. Battle Mage
4.Populartajo
5.Malthusis
6.Gorrad
7.Cream147
8.ChiefSkye4
9.Matt_S
10. Mirth
11. Rishi

I was having a hard time picking between Nat, who's claim I never bought, and BM for defending Joubert. I decided I wanted Nat dead over BM because his claim was total crap.

I do not understand why Nat felt the need to make not 1, but 2 totally insane claims, completely out of nowhere.
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Post Post #1046 (ISO) » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:08 am

Post by Rishi »

vollkan wrote: What about a defendant system without a jury (as in, regular voting mechanics except that there is an auto-lynch at deadline)?
I think that's better. However, I guess I am a little bit of a traditionalist when it comes to Mafia. I kind of like the default rules. I agree it's frustrating (especially for the mod) when the town is indecisive and reluctant to lynch anyone, but I think that's a bigger problem on early days (especially Day 1) rather than later ones.

I remember in Nightmare Mafia, mikeburnfire had an interesting solution. On Day 1, you were required to maintain an active vote on someone. I think it helped things along.

In any case, I don't mean to disparage your setup or imply that there was anything wrong with it. I just don't see it becoming the norm.
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Post Post #1047 (ISO) » Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:21 am

Post by populartajo »

Good game town. I cant believe how right and how wrong I was at some points of the game.
And I told you there would be another prosecutor. If I had had a little more time to think maybe I would have defended myself better. I was thinking I could test Nat's claim with me, "channeling" Mirth for her role and checking it after with mine.
Thx for the game, Vollkan. It was fun.
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Post Post #1048 (ISO) » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:40 am

Post by Matt_S »

I was deathly afraid that I would be killed night 2 before I could confirm Cream. I was praying day 4 that a.) Cream wasn't scum with a special power, and b.) everyone would notice malthusis' lack of a result. However, it wasn't until I read SensFan's post that I recalled he had already claimed an innocent on Cream. I was in a tight situation on day 2. Rishi and BM were pretty much confirmed townies, and I suspected Cream was the doc. I wouldn't want to kill Natirasha because I wanted to see what information he would claim given what we would know the next day. My original plan was to watch a dead guy and see if Natirasha targeted them, but when I asked, I was told I could only watch living people. That left populartajo, malthusis, ChiefSkye, and SensFan. The pick of populartajo turned out to be inconvenient, but the results of people claiming put me in a good situation if I could just survive the night. When I was night killed I was happy because it was my first death as a townie. And it saved me from potentially being mislynched.

It was an overall good game, but not something I'd like all the time.
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Post Post #1049 (ISO) » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:52 am

Post by Cream147 »

Sorry for being so certain you were scum Matt. I like the way the game was played. It is something that is nice to play for the change, though it shouldn't replace the standard way. I'd like to play in a game with this format again though.
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