The fact that you said it in some other postIn post 271, Glitch wrote: What makes you think this
You presume to know what I would do in any given situation.In post 192, Glitch wrote:If he truly thought I were scum, he would engage me, ask me question, poke around, and then case me.
You've misinterpreted me here, it's not about 'towntells', I don't care about 'tells' generally for reasons I gave in post 255.In post 264, Glitch wrote:[6] - Why don't you care what is and isn't a towntell? Sorting town is just as important as sorting scum. Process of elimination can lead you straight to the mafia.
This is solid. I really appreciate the effort in this post and it makes sense to me. The only thing that I would add is that, while you have adopted this way of scumhunting and evaluating players, it doesn't mean that it is the only way to sort players. As I've linked to before, I generally find myself following a strategy much more close to that recommended by Albert B Rampage in his article on scum hunting in the wiki. Us having different hunting strategies doesn't mean we're incompatible and you can't reason with me. It just means we need to hash it out.In post 255, Trendall wrote:I am responding and engaging, you just don't like the way I'm doing it.In post 253, Glitch wrote: -
As to how I would sort players, I don't think 'mafia act like this and town act like this' at all. My thing with deception spotting generally is you need to establish what a person's baseline behaviour is first, what their sort of go-to behaviours and attitudes are in any given situation. And then in a mafia game if a person starts to deviate from what I'd expect from them, then I start to question that.
To give an example, in that last newbie game, one of the players presented a meta argument against one of the other players. However I'd already checked their post history and found them saying 'meta is garbage'. So if they think that meta is garbage, why are they suddenly using it to defend themselves in this game? There's no way that a form of argument that they themselves don't believe is a valid form of argument unless they were fabricating it, so you know that person is mafia.
I take things on a case by case basis like that, I would off the back of that game codify it like 'oh if someone presents a meta argument they are scum', that makes no sense to me. It's hard to articulate why I don't deal in 'tells' as such, but it's like, there's a lot of variation in how different people respond to the same situation. In real life, when somebody gets accused of something, one person might get defensive, another might stay cool and collected, one might start offering a logical argument, one might start offering an emotional argument and so on. And then you have to sit and decipher all of this, like 'how would the person normally act and are they deviating from that right now?'. So to me if someone says like 'oh you are being emotional and this is a tell, mafia would try to make an emotive argument here' then it just makes no sense.
Don't apologise at all, I'm having a nice time!
Oh, I never said it was, it's just the only one I know how to do lolIn post 279, Glitch wrote:while you have adopted this way of scumhunting and evaluating players, it doesn't mean that it is the only way to sort players.
PLUSjoyed, flubber, nopoint, Keita, and me on the wagon if I am counting right?In post 256, Trendall wrote:I'm going to unvote Glitch actually because he's clearly like, trying different approaches to try to communicate with me and actually get stuff out of me. You would have thought that if he was mafia he would continue piling on 'pressure' or whatever rather than sorta backing off in the way that he did there.
Honestly I have no other reads on anybody at this point other than like I say, I had a slight town read on Flubbernugget. I'm sorry but if that's the situation, that's the situation. Most of the time I find all of day one null, and this is no exception.
So Glitch, help me out here. Hypothetically if I flipped town, what would be your opinion of the people who are voting for me so far. Because intuitively to me it feels as though it's unlikely that they're all town but I can't decipher between them?
UNVOTE: Glitch
This makes a lot of sense and I feel like I can learn from it, I just have been really frustrated that you shut me out rather than engaged me simply because our playstyles are so different. Time to move on I suppose.In post 268, Trendall wrote:Again, I am literally doing it right now. I now have a lot of information about you based entirely on your reaction to my not random voting or not explaining it correctly or whatever, and off the back of that I have determined that you're most likely town. I just need to not vote another 11 times and see how each other player reacts to it and shazam, I've solved the game.In post 264, Glitch wrote:I want to know why you think grilling people isn't a reasonable way to sort and find scum, and if casing and interrogating isn't your style, that's fine, but then how would you advocate sorting players and moving the game forward?
If someone does something I don't understand I'll ask them a question about it, it's not about that I disagree with 'interrogation' or whatever, it's about how it's done. You to some extent conceded yourself that your way of doing it just made me not want to engage with you. For example, if I'd identified that a player was particularly sensitive or they were a new player or something like that, I wouldn't go in hard with a load of questions and accusations because I know full well that that's going to make that player act erratically, and they might just get fed up and replace out or whatever and none of the information I get from that is useful. So it's not that I wouldn't 'interrogate' someone, I would just never use your specific method of doing it.
If I were to 'interrogate' somebody I would rather have them being question under no 'pressure', because then the person is reacting at their most natural. Which again, if I'm trying to establish people's baseline behaviours and so on...trying to actively get reactions out of them is not going to help me with that at all.
Also once I think a player is more likely to be mafia, I will generally stop engaging with them directly because I know they can twist it or whatever and will instead start to try to appeal to other town members. That's why to some extent, if you're arguing that I'm mafia and then asking me questions I would just think 'why do you care if you think I'm mafia anyway, surely you think I'm just going to lie?'. Basically I do everything completely backwards compared to how you do it.
It's just a ping. It's a blip on the radar that comes up and in early game any ping is worth talking about to get the ball rolling. Just because it's not a hundred percent solid doesn't mean it's not worth discussing, and scum being pressured even just a little creates a desire to justify oneself and ensure your towniness is being communicated clearly to the rest of the game. That is why it felt off to me. It's fair what you have said in your comeback. But that is the answer to your question about why it was sketchy.In post 273, Trendall wrote:Nobody has managed to explainIn post 269, Glitch wrote:I think your response was sketchy at best when you were questioned on why you didn't vote.whyit's sketchy though other than 'I think that's contrived' which isn't close to an argument. Again, to reiterate, I did something, and my reason for doing it was because people have to generate some sort of content in some way at the start of the game in order to ensure other people also generate content off the back of it and therefore you have stuff to read and determine alignments from.
I swear I have pretty much just spent my entire evening sitting here talking to you or something lmaoIn post 284, Glitch wrote:I just have been really frustrated that you shut me out rather than engaged me
Hmm.In post 278, Trendall wrote:You've misinterpreted me here, it's not about 'towntells', I don't care about 'tells' generally for reasons I gave in post 255.In post 264, Glitch wrote:[6] - Why don't you care what is and isn't a towntell? Sorting town is just as important as sorting scum. Process of elimination can lead you straight to the mafia.
The player in question I was referring to seemed to think that it was my responsibility to like actively towntell or something. It's the responsibility of the other players to interpret my behaviour correctly, it's not my responsibility to 'act correctly' in accordance to their own personal understanding of how a town player behaves vs. how a mafia player behaves - I'd have no way of knowing what that is.
If a player I think is mafia flips town I wouldn't want to be like 'that's your fault for acting scummy', I would be like 'that's my mistake, I misread the situation'.
What they said to me was ridiculous because they were like...trying to give me advice as to how to look more town or something like that? But I'm not trying to actively act like town, I would never do that, that would just confuse things because that's what mafia are trying to do. I'm just sorta like...playing the game how I play it, and this is outside what that player is used to.
LOL ME TOO and I'm neglecting my other games for this one all night, SHITIn post 287, Trendall wrote:I swear I have pretty much just spent my entire evening sitting here talking to you or something lmaoIn post 284, Glitch wrote:I just have been really frustrated that you shut me out rather than engaged me
Hiraki*In post 286, Trendall wrote:Harika
Maybe I was doing it to see how you reacted to it lol.In post 290, Glitch wrote:But I meant yesterday when you were blocking me out. Regardless. We're moving on.
Hiraki is reading you as a noob and is really frustrated with you. Then after he spent so much time responding to you, he read something you wrote that really made him feel like he was wasting his time engaging you and he became very frustrated. I understand his frustration but just don't take it that far.In post 286, Trendall wrote:Harika wants me killed too as per post 241. What do you make of that? Because that's like...an obviously disproportionate reaction to what I said but what makes me think that that's a town reaction is I think...oh god bear with me here but they tried to invoke a mod for some strange 'spoiler-tags' related reason that didn't really scan, I definitely remember seeing people using spoiler tags before with no controversy. I think what they were sort of hoping for in the back of their mind was that the mod would look at my post and think 'oh this Trendall guy is throwing the game, saying he doesn't care about town tells, he's not playing to his win condition, I'm going to replace them out or ban them from the website or something!'. I think they were genuinely that pissed off about it and that's what they werereallygoing for with that. That's like...too imaginative for a mafia-sided player so I think they're town.
Which again would make me think that they are town because if they were a mafia, then surely if they think a player is a village idiot or whatever they would think 'great, I can take advantage of this' or something similar. Town have reasons for getting annoyed with another player being stupid or whatever it is that they thought they perceived, whereas mafia actually have no reason to be annoyed about that.In post 293, Glitch wrote:Hiraki is reading you as a noob and is really frustrated with you. Then after he spent so much time responding to you, he read something you wrote that really made him feel like he was wasting his time engaging you and he became very frustrated. I understand his frustration but just don't take it that far.
Well, if Hiraki thinks that I am a village idiot, and you think that you can learn from me, then I dread to think what they must think of you.In post 284, Glitch wrote:This makes a lot of sense and I feel like I can learn from it
