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[Noraa]

u be missing out then.

[Trendall]

a contrived reason

It wasn't 'contrived'. If you perceive it this way then there's nothing I can do about that, there's nothing I can do to actually engage you.

[Trendall]

If he truly thought I were scum, he would engage me, ask me question, poke around, and then case me. But he doesn't.

So this is the crux of the problem for me, the guy's way of playing this game is going 'mafia act like this, and town act like this', and in reality people act in all different ways irrespective of their alignment due to personality styles and play styles and whatever else. So I know already, if I don't 'act right', he's going to think I'm mafia, and if I do make any attempt to 'act right' he'll accuse me of contriving reasons and so forth, he's completely inconsistent with what he wants from me. So I'm just stuck here, aren't I? There's nothing I can do about it other than hope that if I get lynched the other players in the game are capable of interpreting what's happened.

[Trendall]

But then when called on it you needed to look like you were town.

Again, no I didn't, I just needed to say what I actually think, and then it's this guy's responsibility to be able to interpret what I think correctly and how or if that relates to my alignment, which he has failed to do.

[Flubbernugget]

that's two ppl making vague noises about glitch/noraa being svs now

[Keita]

Why does it feel like Trendall and Noraa are both scum?
If Trendall flips scum I would be inclined to vote Noraa next.

we can maybe be friends actually, could u elaborate on this?

It seems to me Noraa is trying really hard to strike a balance between deflecting the Trendall accusations without seeming like they are buddied. See post 198.

[Keita]

Why does it feel like Trendall and Noraa are both scum?
If Trendall flips scum I would be inclined to vote Noraa next.

And why does it feel like opportunistic scum!Keita just hopped on the wagon with the most potential without questioning anything? Threw some light shade at you but yes, I would like an explanation for why you joined the Trendell wagon and "I just sheeped Glitch" is not an ok answer

I am questioning bc town mislims often by tunneling someone and being like "omg ur reactions suck" but like unless they are super experienced, normally the reactions aint gonna be hot :/

They seem to be very defensive for so early in the game.

[Hiraki]

Sorry but Glitch is all rigid-thinking and acronyms, his analysis is a nightmare, he's probably mafia anyway, there's no way that I'm answering any of those questions that he asked me.

Terrible post.

If Glitch and whoever the other player were think that I 'contrived a reason' for why I didn't place a random vote in, then for what

actual

reason do they think I do it exactly?

Not following this.

If we're struggling to get serious stuff going, how about we get no one today and try on the next day? We'll have a night of information then to work things out VOTE: Skip?

1) I don't know why anyone is saying we are struggling to get serious stuff going; there's enough to start discussions and get things moving a good bit.
2) Getting the "should we no lynch?" Conversation out of the way is an unfortunate necessity in every D1.
3) We are not no-lynching.

What's the point of this post?

Please explain how me using these acronyms = scum?

I didn't say that. These are just leading questions coming from a mafia.

Yet no one is really going with you on that front. Wouldn't it be more appreciative from a town perspective to show rather than just point?

If he truly thought I were scum, he would engage me, ask me question, poke around, and then case me. But he doesn't. He just tries to make it look like I'm some big bad wolf who uses scary acronyms and bad logic. But what is actually bad logic? Hunting, sorting, and generating AI content; or refusing to answer questions and shading a player for poor reasons?

I agree with this but I'm not on board with the fact that Trendall is an "abnormal" player either. I need to dig up that first which includes doing the one thing I despise doing.

I think you just didn't vote and weren't thinking about it. But when pressured you came up with a forced reason. The whole, "oh I actually am contributing by not voting," thing was sketch. Why did you say that? You could have just said, "I frequently don't vote right off the bat," and posted game numbers just like you did but on top of that you had to explain how not voting contributed.

I don't buy this.

I don't think he's tunneling, I do think Trendall is being a tad uncooperative. Idk what to make of that

But your next move is to vote?

So I know already, if I don't 'act right', he's going to think I'm mafia, and if I do make any attempt to 'act right' he'll accuse me of contriving reasons and so forth, he's completely inconsistent with what he wants from me. So I'm just stuck here, aren't I? There's nothing I can do about it other than hope that if I get lynched the other players in the game are capable of interpreting what's happened.

Correct - I agree with you here. Here are the problems -

1) If you're not being cooperative, then what are you doing? This is mafia. This is a game where you need to figure out if X, Y and Z are scum and then get A, B, C, D, and E to vote for X, Y and Z. If you find X, Y and Z but Y is also making A through E think you are scum, you've effectively done nothing. I honestly smell a lot of miselim bait on your wagon which is why I am super apprehensive on my vote on you. However, you are not helpful to town at the moment.

2) Why does that make Glitch scum? Because they're wrong? Isn't that the exact same point that you're making? Giving up isn't exactly a towntell in anyone's book FYI.

that's two ppl making vague noises about glitch/noraa being svs now

If it helps, I've dropped that theory. I have more equity in noraa scum now though. Keita 230 is right on the ball with how I am feeling there.

[Noraa]

I like hiraki.
Townbin for now.
Don't see a point in going to in depth with this read as its only page 10, but the vibes are hella on point with what I normally look for in town. If I got to nominate a town leader figure, this would be jackpot.

[Noraa]

*too

[Trendall]

1) If you're not being cooperative, then what are you doing? This is mafia. This is a game where you need to figure out if X, Y and Z are scum and then get A, B, C, D, and E to vote for X, Y and Z. If you find X, Y and Z but Y is also making A through E think you are scum, you've effectively done nothing. I honestly smell a lot of miselim bait on your wagon which is why I am super apprehensive on my vote on you. However, you are not helpful to town at the moment.

2) Why does that make Glitch scum? Because they're wrong? Isn't that the exact same point that you're making? Giving up isn't exactly a towntell in anyone's book FYI.

Everybody knows that this is very early on in the game where little of any significance happens, so if somebody is starting to talk to me about how I haven't done reams and reams of analysis yet, then that is suspect because everybody knows that nobody's reads are massively serious right now necessarily. If something happens that I think is interesting then I'll pick up on it, and as it happens I think that nothing relevant has happened so far in this game other than I think that Flubbernugget is more likely to be town, and that it's unlikely that all of the other players who jumped on voting me are town too.

Glitch's questions are just...I don't know how to explain but this isn't how you get information out of people. Watch a couple of episodes of Columbo or something to see how it's done properly. His questions are very much putting words in my mouth, bombarding me with stuff left right and centre, trying to catch me out. If you're questioning somebody with the intention of making them slip up, like you've already decided what the answers are going to be as he obviously has done, then the person will slip up, it's pointless, it's a waste of time. Like he's certain his technique works, I'll flip town, and he'll just carry on game after game doing the exact same thing without ever evaluating where he made a mistake.

He's already said to me 'if you were town you would have done this instead'. So if he already knows everything about what I would do in a given situation and I have already breached that, then what possible reason would there be to respond to his points further? Then there's all this theatrical stuff about 'oh this should be the definition of omgus on the wiki'. If he thinks something I've said is 'contrived' then there's nothing I can do about that other than say 'no it wasn't'. Saying something is 'contrived' is nothing, it's not an argument, it's just a person looking at a post and going 'I don't like the look of this because of a gut feeling', how could you possibly argue that further? He says that I am 'panicky' and 'feel pressured' which again, I can say 'I'm clearly not' and then we're at a stalemate. You can't reason with a person if that's the extent of their arguments.

And again, with your question 'why does that make him scum?', I never said it did, so again that's a leading question trying to paint is as though I made a bad argument as to him being mafia when I never made such an argument at all. Like I say, his original question against Noraa was unreasonable, I thought that made him slightly more likely to be mafia than anybody else at that point given that I have no other reads, hence my vote is on him for the time being. It's not like a strong read, I don't care about it very much, but apparently if I don't vote for anybody then everybody complains about that too. As for the motivations for his arguing against me, that could go either way so I wouldn't present any of that as being in favour of him being mafia. I'm just saying that either way, nobody should be looking at his arguments against me and thinking 'yeah they're good arguments we should eliminate Trendall'.

Nothing I have done is tantamount to 'giving up' and I couldn't care less what is and isn't a 'towntell' lol.

[Staarling]

I think Trendall is a townie because that's a looooooot of words and I think it's hard for mafia to write so much right now, because we don't any good information

[Trendall]

598 to be exact!

[Trendall]

do you 2 have a messy history together or do you not know glitch?

Haven't got a clue who he is

[Staarling]

So people don't want to skip today? Another problem is that sometimes the longer you play the more people will claim and mafia and serial killer will be able to kill all of the good roles. but if we skip they'll have no clue who it is and those roles can get us some goodies for the next day

[Trendall]

I thought mini games didn't have third parties such as serial killers in them? If that's true then I'd rather eliminate somebody today because I always like an odd number of players to be alive during the day.

[Hiraki]

Spoiler: Hiraki's Post before he read the final paragraph a few times

Everybody knows that this is very early on in the game where little of any significance happens, so if somebody is starting to talk to me about how I haven't done reams and reams of analysis yet, then that is suspect because everybody knows that nobody's reads are massively serious right now necessarily.

That's not what was asked.

His questions are very much putting words in my mouth, bombarding me with stuff left right and centre, trying to catch me out.

Then why not quote him and show him where he's wrong? Why does he

have

to be scum for being wrong? That is exactly the problem that I have with your current play. You noted the following in 227 -

So I'm just stuck here, aren't I? There's nothing I can do about it other than hope that if I get lynched the other players in the game are capable of interpreting what's happened.

But you currently also have the largest wagon at the moment. So whatever you're doing now is not getting you out of a lynch other than flailing about and saying "Ohh! He's doing a bad job of questioning me!" and then people roll off you and label you a VI tbqh. You've done nothing to validate that you're not just flailing here because you're admitting that you are just flailing.

Meanwhile what you said above in 235 is an accusation that has some merit. Why not pick it apart and make it clear? You have not done that so far.

I'd also like to note that 227 is all about how you can't do anything and yet you also can't do anything but talk about Glitch. It's these sort of hypocrisies that make me really want to say screw it and vote you.

Furthermore, I'd also like to highlight this:

Everybody knows that this is very early on in the game where little of any significance happens, so if somebody is starting to talk to me about how I haven't done reams and reams of analysis yet, then that is suspect because everybody knows that nobody's reads are massively serious right now necessarily.

Glitch's questions are just...I don't know how to explain but this isn't how you get information out of people. Watch a couple of episodes of Columbo or something to see how it's done properly.

So why would Glitch be held to a higher standard? You said yourself that there's nothing happening because it's early game. Are you content with that? Why can't Glitch just be creating something to talk about to get a lead? Have you never asked questions before in a game to just try and get things moving? I just don't really understand everything in context.

And then, as the spoiler above says I read the final paragraph a few times and then realized I'm talking to VI. I don't need nor want to discuss this any further and as much as I would love to join the wagon, I'm not interested at the moment. I'm quite frankly annoyed that I wasted that much time before getting to this point. If there's a vig in the house and he doesn't flip today, please shoot there. There's no need to respond to the above or address it (anyone can if they really want) but I felt annoyed that I wrote it and would need to delete it so I spoilered it. If that's a problem mod, feel free to unspoiler or whatever. I don't usually do this.

[Hiraki]

So people don't want to skip today? Another problem is that sometimes the longer you play the more people will claim and mafia and serial killer will be able to kill all of the good roles. but if we skip they'll have no clue who it is and those roles can get us some goodies for the next day

I don't mean to be rude here but your next game should be the newbie queue.

[Staarling]

:<

[Trendall]

Why does he have to be scum for being wrong?

I never said that he did, I said that on the basis of that element of it it could go either way. I said that the reason I was voting for him was that it's a very light vote based on the fact that I found his point against Noraa unreasonable. If you like, you can look at it as the random vote that ppl were complaining about me not making at the start of the game.

you're admitting that you are just flailing.

I don't know what you mean by 'flailing' exactly so I'm not sure I can 'admit' to something if I'm not even sure what it is. I haven't used this word at all. As I understand the word 'flailing' then I haven't done anything resembling that, I've just sorta...dispassionately addressed the points that have come up against me.

So why would Glitch be held to a higher standard? You said yourself that there's nothing happening because it's early game. Are you content with that? Why can't Glitch just be creating something to talk about to get a lead? Have you never asked questions before in a game to just try and get things moving? I just don't really understand everything in context.

He isn't, I'm doing exactly the same as anybody else is doing in the game, generating content early on in the game. I understand that everybody else is doing that too and that their reads might change, it's not a big deal.

I can't figure out if your reason for wanting me shot is because you think I'm mafia or for some other reason?

[Glitch]

unfortunately glitch is too overeager which us town aligned players are not so derp is definitely not being opportunistic at all whatsoever when joining that wagon

VOTE: glitch

"Unfortunately I'm too overeager?" Can you tell me what this means and what specifically you feel like is acting to eager? Trying to generate content and reads, sorting people, and contributing isn't eager, it's just trying to move the game forward.

too eager to project town and too much mechanical talk, derp no likey

I would love to entertain this conversation but I just don't really understand the case. You'll have to be more specific. You playstyle seems to be shallow....

[Glitch]

does derp have a readslist?

derp is no longer a member of the following fanclubs: glitch, plus, noraa

Nah good try. ScumGlitch would not have the balls for page 1 scum team town blocking.

Let's be town block noraa

Plusjoyed is LOCKTOWN

[Glitch]

a contrived reason

It wasn't 'contrived'. If you perceive it this way then there's nothing I can do about that, there's nothing I can do to actually engage you.

Why do you not try to persuade me or show me how it isn't contrived rather than just acting like, "Glitch thinks what I said is scummy so I just can't even engage with him." That doesn't make sense.

[Trendall]

I did, I said that if it

was

contrived then what's the actual reason for my not voting at the day start?

[Trendall]

For what other reason would I do it in every game that you can think of?