Open 86 - Lovers Multiball (Game Over)

[destructor]

.::] Vote Count [::.

*

OpposedForce (2)

- Adel, Crazy

Alabaska J (1)

- Erratus Apathos

kloud1516 (1)

- ThAdmiral

Cerebus3 (1)

- SleepyPanda

Adel (1)

- Alabaska J

Crazy (1)

- OpposedForce

somestrangeflea (1)

- charter

pwnz (1)

- Knight of Cydonia

Not Voting (13) - sekinj, somestrangeflea, Harvey Pew, pwnz, DarlaBlueEyes, Cephrir, neko2086, cerebus3, armlx, WaltWishbone, wolframnhart, kloud1516, Raging Rabbit

Twelve

votes to lynch.

[Knight of Cydonia]

This game is as dead as Gary Glitter's career.
All those not currently voting, please at least make one decent post summarising who you suspect and why - DBE, I know you have L/A, but try, y'know?

[Cephrir]

Agree with kloud's post wholeheartedly. Also, I think the fact that it doesn't include a vote is a towntell or maybe a bussing tell.

Crazy: he didn't really. I was more responding to charter's speculation about the tell, giving another possibility for something it might be.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

posting to avoid prod. Will post tonight most likely, if internet agrees.

[Raging Rabbit]

Now that we know who all the couples are, I'll do a reread in the near future and try to form a solid case. For now, I'm not liking DBE/Admiral and Kloud/Alabaska.

[charter]

And don't you try to find scumminess in this post, charter. Because I know you're just going to say OMG CRAZY AND PWNZ ARE SCUM PARTNERS.

I believe there are plenty of things wrong in your post. However, there are much bigger fish to fry since I last checked this thread.

Kloud, you single in on pwnz, there are plenty of lurkers here. Why do you single him out? I ask because I believe SSF is much more likely scum than pwnz. In fact, both SSF and EA are both extremely active lurkers! I'm sure if you went back and checked the thread, there have been many worse votes than pwnz's, with even littler justification.

WWB, excellent post.

Gah, Ceph doesn't agree with me on Kloud's post.

@Crazy: I was thinking scum might buddy up to their entire group instead of just their lover, by accident, or something like that. I honestly forget exactly why/what I was thinking exactly, but I think it was something like that based on my daytalk.

Like I said, it didn't seem amazing. Although, it turns out the actual tell isn't that amazing anyway.

Mega-weak. When this entire game has revolved around Adel's scum-tell, you wouldn't forget what you thought it was.

Also, I want to know how charter responded when you mentioned this to him.

Yeah, I didn't say anything in response to it, I thought it was BS right off the bat, but we still guessed as to what it was.

[armlx]

Blah, forgot to put the game on my watched topics list. I'll see what I can reread today, but I can't promise anything major till Sunday, possibly Monday.

[pwnz]

[quote="pwnz... *sigh* I feel sorry for Adel. [/quote]

Vote: Knight of Cydonia

I feel sorry for you, because now you're TOTALLY GONNA DIE LOLZOR!!

But in all seriousness, I'm still at work, kloud, so hopefully I will get some time tonight to address your suspicions.

Just because I post like I'm on NeoGAF doesn't make me useless.

[pwnz]

EBWOP And sorry about my terrible BBcode skill.

[Crazy]

WWB, why do you consider TheAdmiral and DBE the most pro-town pair in this game? The thought of that is shocking to me, considering that combined they make up about 1% of all the content in this thread. One lurker isn't suspicious. When two are paired up, it definitely is.

So it's interesting that dybeck and Alabaska both agree that Fire/Ice are the best candidates for the lynch in daytalk. So why did neither of them vote for them?

This is not true. Alabaska did vote Iceman, and dybeck did not agree that Fire/Ice was the best lynch.

OF/Wolf should be lynched. I feel sad that nobody listened to my case. Adel, you're voting OF, and I knew if you made a lynching case on him, people would listen to you. [/buddy up]

Cephrir dinging my case as "fail" based on nothing hits my scumdar hard. It's like the same way at the beginning of the game when he dismissed the mass-claim idea.

[Crazy]

Oh, and this:

Crazy: he didn't really. I was more responding to charter's speculation about the tell, giving another possibility for something it might be.

Interesting. What did he think the scum-tell was?

[Alabaska J]

unvote, vote: pwnz

him and Adel are lovers no difference to me.

pwnz's play reads to me as someone trying too hard to make it look like he is a townie not taking the game seriously.

[Knight of Cydonia]

*sigh* I feel sorry for Adel.

Vote: Knight of Cydonia

I feel sorry for you, because now you're TOTALLY GONNA DIE LOLZOR!!

But in all seriousness, I'm still at work, kloud, so hopefully I will get some time tonight to address your suspicions.

Just because I post like I'm on NeoGAF doesn't make me useless.

Yes it does. Also, do you want to put a case with that, or chalk it up to OMGUS?

[kloud1516]

Wow, cool.

Just one thing, though. If indeed pwnz was a Werewolf, as you're suggesting, that would mean that Adel completely bussed Iceman AND Firestarter, since she posted a lynching case on both of them. And since bussing really isn't that effective in a multiball game, I don't see that as very likely. So if Adelpwnz is scum, I'd bet on mafia over werewolf.

I am not going to argue against the possibility, as the large submission above was me simply stating the observations of pwnz that I found to stand out and me thinking aloud, trying to deduce why exactly I did not like them. It is entirely possible for pwnz to be neither werewolf nor scum, and the facts that you provide above in regards to Adel's role in the ice/fire lynch does indeed add into the case here.

That would mean, though, that pwnz wasn't buddying up to his scum-partner, he was buddying up to a random non-buddy. That is still a tell, but I believe it to be extremely weak.

I am not going to pass any judgment on the possibilities until pwnz manages to respond to the admittedly lengthly post, for I feel that he will assist in clearing some things up for me. Gauging his responses I feel will be an key part in ruling out certain points and trusting in other suspicions.

The rest of pwnz's posts speak out more like "stupid troll" rather than scum. I mean, wouldn't any real scum actually

try

to look helpful, and not bandwagon mindlessly, causing suspicion to pile on him?

This may be, but I still do not like the way in which it seems he is intentionally not contributing to the game.

So, kloud1516, do you expect me to answer all of your questions right off the bat? It looks like you were writing that damned post for at least a week coming! I'm going to need some time to prove to you that you are making mountains out of molehills.

And by the way, I still think we should kill someone, it's only day 2

1) Of course I am not expecting you to answer everything immediately, as that would be an unrealistic expectation. I actually had amassed all of the posts that I found to stand out (which was admittedly most of them) and typed all that out last night because I felt I needed to step it up and actually provide something finally. I am looking forward to your explanations, as it might help to clear several things up.

2) >.>; *sigh*

Agree with kloud's post wholeheartedly.

Also, I think the fact that it doesn't include a vote is a towntell or maybe a bussing tell.

I didn't vote because I wanted to give pwnz an opportunity to respond before I did anything. As I said in the initial post, while I find pwnz to be suspicious, there are others that I find to stand out as well (cases and explanations that I am currently working on).

Kloud, you single in on pwnz, there are plenty of lurkers here. Why do you single him out? I ask because I believe SSF is much more likely scum than pwnz. In fact, both SSF and EA are both extremely active lurkers! I'm sure if you went back and checked the thread, there have been many worse votes than pwnz's, with even littler justification.

reFoS: pwnz

~

There are other players that I would like to look at a little more closely before I actually place a vote, and that might take a while.

I will try to post something concerning recent developments shortly.

It wasn't my intention to single out pwnz, he was just the first person I decided to express my opinions about. I am very aware of others lurking as well, and I will be addressing them as well shortly.

[OpposedForce]

@Crazy- Hey Crazy did you know that your full of bullshit? I bet you want to know why. Well step right up and pay attention because what I might show you may just dazzle you

I just reread a couple people. OF sticks out badly to me.

Unvote, Vote OpposedForce

.

Also I'm not sure about Adel's scumtell thing. I don't understand it generally so elaboration would be helpful to why people would change their minds of a early lover mass claim.

Here he shows that he doesn't know what the scum-tell was.

And later:

What I see is Crazy defending adel as town as well as the scumtell. Adel isn't even confirmed town and Crazy is already assuming she is and following the scumtell. Attacking a person for a statement from someone and stating their town is pretty scummy.

This is bad. Think back to the mentality of that time as I say this:

OF did not know what the scum-tell was. Thus, how can he really accuse me of confirming Adel as town? He didn't know the scum-tell, so he would have no idea what we were talking about, right? So how could he know that my logic was bad?

I've already addressed in my previous post. You had stated yourself that you believed Adel to be "90% town" because of a scumtell yet you didn't even respond to it and called my vote on you OMGUS even though your case on me is crap for the following reasons:
A) Your still assuming Adel is pretty much town so I'm going to assume you put the crap case on me just because Adel had voted me so you go ahead and think "Hey Adel's gotta be pro-town so I'll just go ahead and buddy up to her by coming on him with old arugments to make myself seem like I'm scumhunting but in reality I'm just following Adel around."
B)I already understand at this point that you mistaken Adel as confirmed town because you mistaken the scumtell but yet you come back following Adel's instinct and voting me just because Adel did? That's some ridiculous reasons.

Also your probally wondering and saying "Well gee he's got it all wrong. I'm not following Adel and I pinned actually evidence on him so he's just trying to accuse me of following Adel to make me look like scum." Well I got evidence too

I'm calling the Firestarter + IcemanE scum team.

Glory onto me when I'm proven correct.

OF/Wolf should be lynched. I feel sad that nobody listened to my case. Adel, you're voting OF, and I knew if you made a lynching case on him, people would listen to you.

[/buddy up]

So basically your going to follow Adel blindly because a scum pair was managed to be lynched with Adel's contribution and so you think "Hey I'll buddy up on a vote for OF because Adel is always right!" I've already stated that your case is crap on me (see above). Instead of putting 100% trust into someone and then defending them like crazy (no pun intended) how about put your own input instead of grasping at straws.

Wow, cool.

Just one thing, though. If indeed pwnz was a Werewolf, as you're suggesting, that would mean that Adel completely bussed Iceman AND Firestarter, since she posted a lynching case on both of them. And since bussing really isn't that effective in a multiball game, I don't see that as very likely. So if Adelpwnz is scum, I'd bet on mafia over werewolf.

That would mean, though, that pwnz wasn't buddying up to his scum-partner, he was buddying up to a random non-buddy. That is still a tell, but I believe it to be extremely weak.

The rest of pwnz's posts speak out more like "stupid troll" rather than scum. I mean, wouldn't any real scum actually

try

to look helpful, and not bandwagon mindlessly, causing suspicion to pile on him?

And if you tell me that's WIFOM, I'll slap you. It's not, because nobody ever thinks obvious scummy behavior as a town tell except me, so pwnz could not possibly be looking to elicit that response.

Another thing, what's with everyone saying "OMG DBE PUT ICEMAN AT L-1 SCUM SCUM SCUM?" I mean, he was going to be lynched anyway no matter what, right? It was like 48 hours until deadline. (That's why I didn't find that one pwnz quote you quoted suspicious; I would have said the same thing)

And don't you try to find scumminess in this post, charter. Because I know you're just going to say OMG CRAZY AND PWNZ ARE SCUM PARTNERS.

What a total defense of Pwnz here Crazy. Also what a strange concidence that Pwnz just happens to be the partner of Adel. Trying to get Pwnz out of the spotlight there Crazy? Also your part when you say it isn't WIFOM IS IRONICALLY WIFOM. (The bolded part) Your basically saying that scum won't bandwagon mindlessly and try to act clean cut which is total WIFOM because at this point you can't determine how the scum's playstyle is going to act. That kind of WIFOM will lead to more WIFOM. Take for example I say that Pwnz is most likely town for appearing scummy behavior of mindlessly bandwagoning when the same can apply that Pwnz is bandwagoning alot is trying to seem too scummy to be seen as scum and will be seen as town thus resulting in Wifom.

Also as another note I saw that you just convienetly slipped out of sight and pushed for a lynch other then your own. In my opinion you were way to eager for a lynch to happen.

Umm, what's the point? Does it make any difference if the lynch happens now or in 46 hours?

Why hasn't the wagon moved back to Crazy yet? Everyone should ask themselves this question. Ridiculous, if you ask me. Even after I blew Adel's case apart, I'm still up for lynch. What will it take to get you to realize how flawed it is? Only thing left to do is wait to die, I guess. Lol. Freakin' good game while it lasted.

Pff, when a wagon gets past 10 votes, it's almost certainty that that person will be lynched eventually. I don't believe the case on you has been blown apart. Even if it has, the case on Firestarter

hasn't

been blown apart.

Basically you were just eager for the lynch to happen so all you had to do was sit back, relax and watch as you slipped out of the spotlight and was convienetly on the biggest bandwagon avalible. Crazy at this point I can't see how your not scum. I rest my case.

[neko2086]

Still rereading w/ loverpairs in mind. In the meantime:

Another thing, what's with everyone saying "OMG DBE PUT ICEMAN AT L-1 SCUM SCUM SCUM?"

I think the idea was that Darla could have been a scumbuddy trying to jump on the bus pretty easily.

So, kloud1516, do you expect me to answer all of your questions right off the bat?

Why would you ask this? This just sounds like scum trying to deflect attention.

Anyway, I thought he had a pretty good analysis, but I'm wondering why he'd make a FOS and even a reFOS rather than just drop a vote, unless his pwnz case is his least convincing one.

I think the fact that it doesn't include a vote is a towntell or maybe a bussing tell.

I wouldn't limit it to those two options, actually. Depends on what he does next.


Pwnz, why are you voting Knight? I think Crazy's and Knight's posts are full of bad logic, but I don't think intentionally so. Nothing in your posting history shows any intention for voting him so it looks like an OMGUS vote.

[Cephrir]

Oh, and this:

Crazy: he didn't really. I was more responding to charter's speculation about the tell, giving another possibility for something it might be.

Interesting. What did he think the scum-tell was?

He thought the scum might not have daytalk; presumably this was before we realized the game was nightless.

Cephrir dinging my case as "fail" based on nothing hits my scumdar hard. It's like the same way at the beginning of the game when he dismissed the mass-claim idea.

It wasn't based on nothing. Your case consisted of two OF posts and, like, two lines each about them. That's not a case, especially since what you said wouldn't even have been terribly incriminating had they been wholly correct points (which I didn't think they were).

Still need to do that reread =/

[neko2086]

Ugh, simpulpost. I need to look over OF and wolf again. OF, it seems that you've already decided Crazy is scum and you're just looking for reasons why. You're making lots of assumptions here. In fact, your first two points on Crazy are based entirely on assumptions. Your 'evidence,' I think, is taken out of context so that it conveniently fits your assumptions.

[WaltWishbone]

WWB, why do you consider TheAdmiral and DBE the most pro-town pair in this game? The thought of that is shocking to me, considering that combined they make up about 1% of all the content in this thread. One lurker isn't suspicious. When two are paired up, it definitely is.

I do not think they are the most pro-town nor did I write that, I wrote that I consider them the least scummy. Although, the same could be said for the last four pairs of lovers on my list. I could have easily put them in a four way tie for least scummy. Part of it is not having enough information and/or participation, part is voting patterns, and part is they have not done anything extremely anti town in my opinion.

The one thing that stood out about dbe/TheAd during my re-read was their voting pattern; they seem perfectly synched as a pair and not aligned with a group. I am giving dbe the benefit of the doubt on her l/a status; if they continue to lurk after today without explanation then I may adjust my opinion.

RR actually asked me the same question in daytalk, he and I defer in our opinion on them, although he has not elaborated yet. I am going to wait for him to respond, I may change my list a bit depending on what he writes. I could have missed something, but I just don't see anything at this point that makes me as suspicous as others seem to be.

So it's interesting that dybeck and Alabaska both agree that Fire/Ice are the best candidates for the lynch in daytalk. So why did neither of them vote for them?

This is not true. Alabaska did vote Iceman, and dybeck did not agree that Fire/Ice was the best lynch.

YES, it is true. These are the nine people who voted for iceman - Cephrir, Erratus Apathos, WaltWishbone, somestrangeflea, sekinj, Crazy, ThAdmiral, charter, Raging Rabbit.

Alabaska voted for Adel
Kloud (dybeck) voted for SSF

Seriousley, check your facts before making those kinds of statements. It confuses things and is anti town. He did have a vote on iceman at one point but removed it well before iceman reached l2, which I wrote in my post and you did not quote in yours.

OF/Wolf should be lynched. I feel sad that nobody listened to my case. Adel, you're voting OF, and I knew if you made a lynching case on him, people would listen to you. [/buddy up]

I read your case against OF/Wolf, it has merit but in my opinion, not enough to lynch someone. Unless Adel can point something out that you did not, it will not make a difference to me.

Cephrir dinging my case as "fail" based on nothing hits my scumdar hard. It's like the same way at the beginning of the game when he dismissed the mass-claim idea.

I need to go back and re-read what he wrote. I thought he elaborated on it a bit further in a follow up post but I could be wrong. But considering your reason for dismissing the mass claim so quickly, I wouldn't talk, your "scumtell" was weak.

[WaltWishbone]

So it's interesting that dybeck and Alabaska both agree that Fire/Ice are the best candidates for the lynch in daytalk. So why did neither of them vote for them?

This is not true. Alabaska did vote Iceman, and dybeck did not agree that Fire/Ice was the best lynch.

Just for clarity sake, crazy, here is the part of my post you did not quote nor include in your post and perhaps did not even read.

I also looked for potential scum buddies for fire/ice during my re-read. dybeck was first, he seemed to try to derail both the firestarter wagon with an erroneous vote on SSF and the Iceman wagon by calling us a lazy town. However there seemed to be enough of a disparity between he and Iceman, as well as Alabaska voting (then removing his vote) to cast a shadow of a doubt in my mind.

@ Walt: Yes, I have had a chance to read over the daytalk of my lover and dybeck. I would gladly paraphrase the conversation in hopes of clarifying a few things for the group.

1) Mod explains the quicktopic is for daytalk
2) Lover greets dybeck
3) Lover asks if dybeck really feels that SSK is the best lynch for the day. Asks dybeck to give reasoning if he feels that SSK is the right choice
4) Dybeck claims that he isn't sure. Says that Fire/Ice could be scum, but didn't think the case presented was very convincing at that point. Feels like there should be pressure on more people.

5) Lover agrees that Fire/Ice/OP are the most scummy and best candidates for lynch.

6) I replace dybeck

I am not really sure what dybeck was getting at with the vote against SSK, and I feel that it will be necessary for me to go and read back over his posts when my head isn't throbbing, as I may be of more help to the town at tip-top shape. More to come a little later.

So it's interesting that dybeck and Alabaska both agree that Fire/Ice are the best candidates for the lynch in daytalk. So why did neither of them vote for them?

Alabaska voted for Adel and dybeck voted for SSF, even though in posts number 4 and 5 they agree that fire/ice/op are the best lynch. I am not ready to vote for them, however this is something that should be taken into consideration.

[Alabaska J]

So it's interesting that dybeck and Alabaska both agree that Fire/Ice are the best candidates for the lynch in daytalk. So why did neither of them vote for them?

This is not true. Alabaska did vote Iceman, and dybeck did not agree that Fire/Ice was the best lynch.

Just for clarity sake, crazy, here is the part of my post you did not quote nor include in your post and perhaps did not even read.

I also looked for potential scum buddies for fire/ice during my re-read. dybeck was first, he seemed to try to derail both the firestarter wagon with an erroneous vote on SSF and the Iceman wagon by calling us a lazy town. However there seemed to be enough of a disparity between he and Iceman, as well as Alabaska voting (then removing his vote) to cast a shadow of a doubt in my mind.

@ Walt: Yes, I have had a chance to read over the daytalk of my lover and dybeck. I would gladly paraphrase the conversation in hopes of clarifying a few things for the group.

1) Mod explains the quicktopic is for daytalk
2) Lover greets dybeck
3) Lover asks if dybeck really feels that SSK is the best lynch for the day. Asks dybeck to give reasoning if he feels that SSK is the right choice
4) Dybeck claims that he isn't sure. Says that Fire/Ice could be scum, but didn't think the case presented was very convincing at that point. Feels like there should be pressure on more people.

5) Lover agrees that Fire/Ice/OP are the most scummy and best candidates for lynch.

6) I replace dybeck

I am not really sure what dybeck was getting at with the vote against SSK, and I feel that it will be necessary for me to go and read back over his posts when my head isn't throbbing, as I may be of more help to the town at tip-top shape. More to come a little later.

So it's interesting that dybeck and Alabaska both agree that Fire/Ice are the best candidates for the lynch in daytalk. So why did neither of them vote for them?

Alabaska voted for Adel and dybeck voted for SSF, even though in posts number 4 and 5 they agree that fire/ice/op are the best lynch. I am not ready to vote for them, however this is something that should be taken into consideration.

Um, I was on the icemanE wagon.

[WaltWishbone]

Um, I was on the icemanE wagon.

How come you didn't vote for Iceman or Firestarter/OP? What made you decide to vote for Adel?

[Alabaska J]

Um, I was on the icemanE wagon.

How come you didn't vote for Iceman or Firestarter/OP? What made you decide to vote for Adel?

what

[Alabaska J]

Oh I see. Yeah, icemanE was deadline lynched and I didn't have time to switch my vote back. I just wanted my observation about Adel's flip-flopping to stick out. I knew he wasn't going to be lynched and it was an alligator vote more than anything.

[ThAdmiral]

I think you misunderstand me. I am a fan of adel.
And while you're right about paying close attention, it can also go the other way with making mountains out of molehills.

I never said you weren't. I said you were trying to use the two votes on Adel to create a wagon out of a toy car, and use said wagon as evidence against those two voters.

It was more to stop any wagon that may have started.

Adel wagon = people voting for the person who is speaking the most.

See, you've implied a connection between two facts with nothing in the way of actually backing this up.

It seemed obvious to me.

I will change "the most vocal" to "person who the most people are paying attention to due to what she is saying".

So, you think the Adel wagon exists solely because Adel is in the spotlight? Adel was under the spotlight and seemed to slip, so some people voted. I fail to see why this makes it an inherently

bad

wagon.

I think it's bad to go after someone who basically single handedly delivered us scum yesterday. If someone is posting as much as she is obviously they will "slip" and say something not-quite-right eventually. I think it is inherently bad to forget everything else that person has done and just focus on that.

*sigh* I guess if everybody wants to claim...

my lover is darla. (She has dazzling eyes by the way)

she's on L/A but says she'll do a big post when she gets back.

Um, so what if everyone wants to claim? You don't necessarily have to - indeed, if Darla is on L/A, why not wait until you can talk it over with her, and decide whether or not to claim each other? If you really didn't want to claim lover, you could easily have just not done so - with the recent proliferation of claims, you'd probably be outed anyway, assuming no-one is lying.

I said previously that while I was against a mass claim I would do it if the majority wanted it. And as you said my pair would have come out in to the open one way or another.
(although you're right about the talking it over with darla first - she was against the massclaim too, and might be pissed when she gets back! But I reckon she'll be alright with it...)

Until DBE returns, I'm wondering about ThAdmiral and DBE as a pair, actually.
If DBE returns and confirms that, my unease will be assauged, but... I dunno. I can't see much that would link them in posting, really.

I know this was already shut down by cephrir but I would just like to reiterate that this is just ridiculous. There's no point in me lying.

I'm thinking ThAdmiral Scum could maybe have swapped lovers with the other Mafia pair, although I can't imagine why. I'm not accusing on that point, I'd merely be happier to see DBE confirm when her L/A is over.

This makes slightly more sense, but even if I had swapped partners wouldn't darla just back me up anyway?